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General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: russell12 on Monday 07 January 19 19:23 GMT (UK)
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Hello everyone,
I have a picture of my 3rd generation direct ancestor, Tom Davidson; whom I've been told by family was a 'Bengali Lancer', however I really have no clue as to whether this is true! (I really don't know anything Tom)
Could anyone help out with the date and uniform? I'd really appreciate it :)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/HIykHovjjM54c3fQxMDYf42IXgN6pvKkU6VPC21FJBT_sZMS9b4d7ezxminlgWQ1VDZoKsOknN9wKKRXJK-QaLJzBLUt91d6L0H4YU10GsRf0CeYYrlc3TsBFRXLybkYyIZIA_sYuX57JBjHhllgVX05NLZJkInViOtg8fTIyqeMm4Eof9KZdID4zqf_x1Hyhz7JMWe_IvEz2pnq4obSG8Jl_SWJtcJLNybYXhDrZAaNZ_y1FKz-lJAWXFS_Jti6yct2pq2msWqQDjSp5Jcovki7H-qTL0UruIeqaam4TUlqJQeGPlw_luAHk1UnKcgFQ-16vk9f0gwtQL_KlWQEZXnxpiDGJDLTOzjq3IdGgkTPmjbuNNf_YV0N0eH_NFjvAou66is8pLlOmbO2FERLMYu7kjGXaXwEP2djdsGkw4p98Nuwg1MUvzn62exEnOSlQgec015KEmAbMKd8ki2oDk05P7NE5iZJ0VvkbRcL4exV9nCYlzKK31HMp27YXtIpr1rmytvV9Bepk0_ZsCgkHmmc1mvAUQrH5GAlZL7z7HgUujzsAe-Jo9Rs_DNlNOiUDbLu54p3-UR1_6OVKXtVoTnftIcTQlAUtp8QCKMDwu4CD0pejsybGHQLaw3l9Ez6Wlt-RKF1f67dDhuvdpoQ7B0L=w470-h626-no)
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One of the dozen or so Bengal Lancer (not Bengali) regiments in the British Indian Army, guessing at latter half of the 19th century. About half the officers and many NCOs were British.
Do you have dates/places to help find him?
MaxD
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2nd Bengal Lancers, 1895. Will that fit;
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/bd/cf/0e/bdcf0e86ca0dc5adaaa0e2307720d54a.jpg
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2nd Bengal Lancers, 1895. Will that fit;
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/bd/cf/0e/bdcf0e86ca0dc5adaaa0e2307720d54a.jpg
Thank you both for the responses,
I'd say mid 1890s was about right;
Both uniforms are from the 1890s (1897 and 1896), I don't know how much the uniform changed over the years but they look fairly similar... I'll have a snoop around Ancestry's military records to see if I can find anything (Would he be listed has Tom? Or Thomas?).
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Do you know whether he had any other initials? Alternatively, the name of his wife and/or children? I am looking at a possibility but need a few more clues.
MaxD
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Do you know whether he had any other initials? Alternatively, the name of his wife and/or children? I am looking at a possibility but need a few more clues.
MaxD
Sorry for the slow reply! I've been busy with academia....
(https://i.ibb.co/YpLdRQK/Simone-Ritson-039-s-mother-Family-Tree.jpg)
Above is the information that was sent to me by my great-aunt, I personally found it quite confusing; but it's all I've got to base the research of my mothers family off of.
I'm not too sure where the 'Florence'/'Dalrymple' surname popped out of or why it was changed ???
She (my great aunt) has also been pretty persistent about the whole 'Emily Davison' relation - but it would seem her spelling of 'Davidson' is different, so not sure how true that is.
Not very helpful I know! But I would seriously appreciate any clues or just a general push in the right direction.
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Could this be your man?
Findmypast have records of Thomas Samuel DAVIDSON born c1856 Carlow, Ireland. He had a sister Isabella.
Attested Lancers in 1876 and served in Bangalore.
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Don't think that is he Jebber. He joined the 12th Royal Lancers, very different uniform 12th Lancers were also a British army regiment in India rather than the British Indian Army.
That said, the family may not have known the difference between a 12th Lancer and any other sort and he could have been wearing the other uniform for fancy dress or it may be a mate in the Bengal Lancers?? A bit in the straw clutching department there.
Trying to squeeze dates out of the family details!
MaxD
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Russell12
Could you give a clue to which pat of the country we are looking at and a time frame for at least one level of the family.
And just to note that if our man was a Bengal Lancer, then his records would be at the British Library rather than on line with British army records.
MaxD
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It was so late in the evening and having so little information on the man, it was just a wild suggestion MaxD.
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Always worth a shot!
MaxD
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Sooo I've got a few dates for other members of the family which might help;
Tom's grandson 'James A.C Florence' married Phylis Mary who was born June 22nd 1899 and both her parents were born in the 1860s.
So that would likely put Tom's daughter 'G' (have not been given her full name) birth date as also being around the 1860s/mid Victorian period.
Tom is my 6th generation ancestor; and the 6th generation ancestors on Phylis Mary's side were born in the 1830s... so depending on any age gaps Tom would likely have also been born around the early Victorian era -
WHICH
Makes it unlikely that it is him in the picture?! Arghh I have no clue whats going on now ;D
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Where was all this?
If I am reading it correctly the top end of the chart appears to be the marriage of G Davidson (daughter of the Lancer) to James Florence or Dalrimple (with variants). I find no such marriage in England and Wales, I haven't checked Scotland or Ireland.
I also can't seem to find any of the births/marriages but my enthusiasm waned a bit so I may not have checked them all.
Any idea what the word in brackets beneath Dalrimple is?
MaxD
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Where was all this?
If I am reading it correctly the top end of the chart appears to be the marriage of G Davidson (daughter of the Lancer) to James Florence or Dalrimple (with variants). I find no such marriage in England and Wales, I haven't checked Scotland or Ireland.
I also can't seem to find any of the births/marriages but my enthusiasm waned a bit so I may not have checked them all.
Any idea what the word in brackets beneath Dalrimple is?
MaxD
Yes! I've had this problem aswell - the only people I've managed to find our Phylis Mary's parents - William Octavius Joseph and Elizabeth Mary Day (they married in Egypt). But with that being said I haven't found any evidence of them having a daughter called 'Phylis Mary'... so I'm just going along with hearsay.
Her son 'James Morton Dalrymple' - whom is still alive in his late 90s - currently lives in South Africa with the rest of my family, with a few who moved to New Zealand. So it's perfectly possible that these records would be found overseas ??? Your guess is as good as mine :-\
The words in the brackets say 'Dropt' - so the surname was replaced to Florence... for reasons utterly unknown to me!
Sorry about how confusing this all is, I've requested for more info but not been given much more.
I'll go ahead and just post the whole page of info she sent me :)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/9cCNmxh9qBQieKW5dYhYL8or3NhN-Rah1Iyu0G9lim4I6douZd1br9zVKlhdO7nKpgh8ExGM2HCCYvI1MZeqpPxDRn6ULYYDYCD7PNAKE3FFol-RZGljwEW3dZ1NhJscnbccMalpd4PCB75dx_pbR66_cOrHIWR_Gu-2ZZilR65z5irRb5i2x2oOhvn9d24bEQf1PVHVENc8gnzzVm68I015ubr7Cc5HyJzt2QstIpMutRGZursypvht3V2a5Cx1bE6kDmR3xfYcqr_B_RiXT5wsrkhjnETpXkM_aW6gK9MFBLCr4MCU9xWNc8_Qr-SIIpznVGLa5-tkK5_xY8xOLF0AcJE_6s70Oew2u0IG1ylAWBy3SL08pZY1r-MEjHVpSzyTTbqyALrobJpc6bAMCZx73GqU9Mq3JfuCMU4vhlc13XBgFvx6XUe8sfNoAeOrUNFc_XteW7G9vzykEt0KNHjfyV2DWDnVxwzQaq0s89Zs9Mw1b9-0M5Jey8GNUi-bWml0FdLMQA16-gW4ntyqD86B7c73BI8Zu5pvy4J3xRfYv5uH915FowXGHXdFLM8_SZ6XK8gFQaFqJgX0EY2tKiBt-GdVW2oZrtneVFhf_roYNST5UAqtXI7pqzofkAbCLpVaiECQcfN0U8IhlWAhScgE=w470-h626-no)
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Not easy! Not impossible for the photo to be of a man born about 1820. As mentioned before, records of men who served with the Indian Army (also called British Indian Army) were kept by the British India Office, not the British war Office. FindMyPast has a number of Thomas Davidsons from the FIBIS database (see https://www.genguide.co.uk/source/india-office-records/234/) but the references I find are all like individual pieces of a jigsaw with no idea what the picture looks like!
The same database does turn up the baptism in 1904 in Lahore Cathedral of James Andrew Charles Florence, son of James and Mabel Grace Dalrymple. Need to look at that data base a bit more closely I think. Florence and Dalrymple figure now and again in passenger lists to India.
MaxD
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Gets better.
Mabel Grace Dalrymple baptised at (not sure) Lahore Dec 29 1870 (born Oct 30) daughter of Thomas Reid and Georgina Herriot Davidson nee Becher, he a Captain in the Bengal Staff Corps. They had been married on Aug 22 1861 when he was a Lieutenant in the 18th Bengal Cavalry : https://www.indianetzone.com/63/18th_regiment_bengal_cavalry.htm
If you recall my earlier post in which I asked about a middle name - it was Thomas Reid Davidson who I was looking at but as he was a Staff Corps man I was hesitant. He is relatively easy to trace as he appears in the Indian Army Lists and many entries in the British India Office database.
I submit that this is the top of the tree chart, G being Mabel Grace.
MaxD
PS His father also appears to have been named Thomas Reid Davidson who died in 1851. He was British Resident at the court of the Rajah of Nagpore, a pretty high powered person!
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Thomas Reid Davidson (senior)
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/mediaui-viewer/tree/28689470/person/12803209854/media/8792e11a-8a52-4a9a-bb18-42b36fc18957?_phsrc=MvA2086&_phstart=successSource
This is on an Ancestry public tree, there are two public trees which may be worth looking at. However, be careful because there are two Thomas Reid Davidsons in the records, almost contemporaries, one is the Resident father of the Bengal soldier and the other Thomas Reid Waugh Davidson born in 1850 to Wright Westcott Davidson, brother of your man whose photo appears in one of the family trees.
My suggestion if you want to go back further than the man at the top of your chart, then a sub to Ancestry and FindMyPast will give access to much more data that you have already. As for working down the tree, it may be that the task may be easier now.
MaxD
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Gets better.
Mabel Grace Dalrymple baptised at (not sure) Lahore Dec 29 1870 (born Oct 30) daughter of Thomas Reid and Georgina Herriot Davidson nee Becher, he a Captain in the Bengal Staff Corps. They had been married on Aug 22 1861 when he was a Lieutenant in the 18th Bengal Cavalry : https://www.indianetzone.com/63/18th_regiment_bengal_cavalry.htm
If you recall my earlier post in which I asked about a middle name - it was Thomas Reid Davidson who I was looking at but as he was a Staff Corps man I was hesitant. He is relatively easy to trace as he appears in the Indian Army Lists and many entries in the British India Office database.
I submit that this is the top of the tree chart, G being Mabel Grace.
MaxD
PS His father also appears to have been named Thomas Reid Davidson who died in 1851. He was British Resident at the court of the Rajah of Nagpore, a pretty high powered person!
Oh my goodness! I cannot thank you enough :o :D I would never have found any of this by myself!
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/P6Abc06LkcCShM9GY-z9i3deW8KnGxrhnXpIcY5-RFjFie1f4Scr9_9R_CTeRhKdUDI7luu7Q0TVKeVfODxsQgA_VoU8ps9Pe0VUqI_av7S4h97-X9mj9SaRqosXtuJALgS97wTGvn0HJIcxvCCKMGT-88mh0E3jUddJFS0T0NlxqXziq6VZSy8MhCmjWkxjeXGzv73lM-C2vih8KzukFaNMne9vaZNLspkEj-q37wsGI6wFAv9mGL0mYbTSpAeb2V9GaCHj7iBMfOyucrJLenAtfTOwAYTOOUhHaA_YWRUr0vgxFGMR3OmcybpI9eXnPIPKqb7tFaReA09TKpDqRb_ueHIf0IC4Kg_RfZYzOqb53KYxw6kv7qRjAlLqPYM-loqrLOQVxGOydIzzIzUgmJ0KHOFpp8a5Wm3UJ075t4zIU91VoqytQa_6BHpG-czq6l8lxgs1Qw6-Kx68qDEnpw2qIa_UF_nkEi5P9EwarrqQwiwhYnR5xO6K5MtJvENSSasZ9RKiYN9YHVLlJmd17p-2K-qaI0cdPcAqNmxmLH3KHsDsUk_aNyMgrnHBPxux6iTQgJpbqZwDc0i59i2pS2BxesHkfgGINB7iDM0ZMFRkh7Vx_u9pabzYbn71CLHtZO192yzjxbVSrqH1wXtGP-UP=w720-h540-no)
^ On the right is a picture of James Andrew Charles Florence (quite a mouthful to say) and I wonder if the chain/necklace has any connection to Thomas Reid Davidson being a resident in the Courts? Maybe a heirloom medal that was gifted to the family... I'm not sure, I could be reaching a bit here :-\ Any idea what it could be? Possibly military related? (sorry to be a pest asking so many questions)
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I'd say not. It looks very much like some sort of civic insignia, mayor or similar. The Resident was 1800-1851, a long time before this photo. It was a political appointment described as part diplomat, part adviser to the ruler and monitor of activities for the British government.
I've had a look to see if he appears anywhere in newspapers - JAC Florence was fined for not having a driving licence in 1932 and joined the RAF in 1939. The photo looks post war?
MaxD