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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Topic started by: SandraEve on Tuesday 08 January 19 07:24 GMT (UK)
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My Gr.Grandfather James Walker according to the 1891,1901,1911 Birmingham census' was born in Edinburgh in 1860, profession on all three census' Iron Moulder. On my grandmothers birth certificate his profession states Iron Moulder Journeyman. These are the only records I can find of him. Can anyone help guide me to where I may find further records for example I presume as a journeyman he would have served an apprentice and do records still exist. I presume he may have moved to Birmingham for work reasons.
To complicate matters I can find no marriage certificate for James Walker and my Gr.Grandmother Elizabeth Lyndon. None of their children were baptised but Elizabeth Lyndon was so I presume James Walker was a non conformist. On the 1891 census James Walker is living with Elizabeth Lyndons family as a lodger. The 1911 census states they had been married 20 years. I have spent hours searching Scottish and English records and have just hit a brick wall. Many thanks for any help
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It helps us if you give census details or references for the census you have found, also some idea where and when the first child of the marriage was born with name.
Is this one of them
WALKER, JORDIE mmn LYNDON
GRO Reference: 1893 Sept Quarter in WARRINGTON Volume 08C Page 255
Possible other child before that
WALKER, MARGARET ELIZABETH mmn LYNDON
GRO Reference: 1891 Sept Quarter in ASTON Volume 06D Page 391
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So we can see the family
1901 Piece 2847 f99 p50 - Birmingham
James Walker 39 bn Edinburgh, Scotland
Elizabeth Walker 39 bn Birmingham
Margaret E Walker 9 bn Birmingham
George Walker 7 bn Warrington
Isabella Walker 5 bn Birmingham
Florence Walker 3 bn Birmingham
Kate Walker 4 bn Birmingham
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Finally found them in 1891 RG12/2437 f69 p44 Aston ;D
Elizabeths mother is Hannah Harrison - widow
Elizabeth is still single (surname Lyndon) age 29
James is age 30 bn Scotland (no mention of Edinburgh) He is also single
plus siblings of Elizabeth
At least we know that Elizabeth was using the surname Lyndon at this point
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To complicate matters I can find no marriage certificate for James Walker and my Gr.Grandmother Elizabeth Lyndon. None of their children were baptised but Elizabeth Lyndon was so I presume James Walker was a non conformist.
Be careful using the term 'non conformist' in relation to Scotland. A 'non conformist' is specifically someone who did not conform to the Church of England, which has never had a presence in Scotland (yes, I know there was at least one C of E congregation in Scotland for a time in the 19th century but the C of E as a denomination did not). So the term 'non conformist' is meaningless in relation to Scotland, and will only serve to confuse matters.
As your James Walker was born in Scotland after the start of statutory civil registration in Scotland in 1855, it would be far easier to find his birth certificate than a baptism.
So, he said in 1891 that he was 30, and in 1901 that he was 39. Assuming that his age was accurate, he would have been born between 1860 and 1862. I cannot find in the 1881 census in southern Scotland a James Walker born in Midlothian (County of Edinburgh) between 1859 and 1863 with an occupation that resembles an iron moulder. Could he have moved to England in time for the 1881 census?
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There is this entry on the 1881 English census for a 20 yr old James Walker b. Scotland and a moulder by occupation https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27K-LGXG
Monica
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Thank you for the information on non-conformists Scotland and pointing out my error.
i will in future put census reference details
Yes Walker Margaret Elizabeth GRO 1891 volume 6D page 291 is the daughter of James Walker and Elizabeth Lyndon. I have the birth certificate.
I feel sure that Walker Jordie is the George Walker, the second child I have been searching for.
GRO Reference: 1893 Sept Quarter in WARRINGTON Volume 08C Page 255
1901 Piece 2847 f99 p50 - Birmingham
George Walker 7 bn Warrington.
I tried Georgie and similar but not Jordie
Thank you so much for that. I will order the birth certificate to be sure.
I also thought James Walker may have moved to Birmingham by the 1881 census but I have been unable to find a James Walker, iron moulder or similar occupation about the correct age born Edinburgh on 1881 census for Birmingham. I also checked the 1881 census for areas en route from Edinburgh towards the midlands.
Could James be his second name. If his first name was the same as his fathers he may have used James instead.
I am thinking I should try searching for James Walkers born Edinburgh 1859-1862 and try to trace each one through the census'
Sandra
I have just seen your post re 1881 census Monica thank you, it surely must be him
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I am thinking I should try searching for James Walkers born Edinburgh 1859-1862 and try to trace each one through the census
It might yet come to that.
I would search for all of Midlothian, because you don't know whether that English census listing means he was born in the city of Edinburgh or in the county of Edinburgh, i.e. Midlothian.
You can get a list of James Walkers born in Midlothian 1859-1862 in the IGI at https://www.familysearch.org/search/collection/igi and you should be able to use the free access version of the LDS transcription of the 1881 census at www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk to eliminate some (most?) of them.
For the rest, you will need to check the 1871 census, and also deaths of young James Walkers on Scotland's People.
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"I would search for all of Midlothian, because you don't know whether that English census listing means he was born in the city of Edinburgh or in the county of Edinburgh, i.e. Midlothian.
You can get a list of James Walkers born in Midlothian 1859-1862 in the IGI at https://www.familysearch.org/search/collection/igi and you should be able to use the free access version of the LDS transcription of the 1881 census at www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk to eliminate some (most?) of them.
For the rest, you will need to check the 1871 census, and also deaths of young James Walkers on Scotland's People."
Thank you for this guidance. I did not know the LDS 1881census was free to access on Scotlands People. I have found a number of James Walker on the IGI at Family Search but when I checked the1881 Scotland census I was unable to eliminate any of them as most of the James Walker were living as lodgers and so could not check parentage. I will check the 1871census and death records.
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Further research. On the 1861 census Piece 3922 105 Page 12 Carlisle there is a Jane Walker Female daughter. On the 1871 census Piece 5100 19 Page 31 Newcastle Upon Tyne. The family members place of birth correspond on both census and also the ages with the exception of the father William. It seems obvious that this is the James Walker I am looking for and the error is on the 1861 census. Can I be sure? As yet I have not traced a birth entry for him having searched Scotland and England births.
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Further research. On the 1861 census Piece 3922 105 Page 12 Carlisle there is a Jane Walker Female daughter. On the 1871 census Piece 5100 19 Page 31 Newcastle Upon Tyne. The family members place of birth correspond on both census and also the ages with the exception of the father William. It seems obvious that this is the James Walker I am looking for and the error is on the 1861 census. Can I be sure? As yet I have not traced a birth entry for him having searched Scotland and England births.
It's certainly possible. I have come across a couple of errors of that sort, including confusion between James/Jane.
Did you mean to say that the 1871 census shows James and the 1861 shows Jane and all the rest of the family matches?
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Looking at that census in Carlisle, I see that the parents are William Walker and Mary, and that daughter Sarah, 5, was born in Sunderland and son William, 3, in Scotland.
Looking at births of Sarah Walkers in Sunderland in 1855 plus or minus two years there are eight, and the mothers' surnames are Ryles, Wake, Calvert, Johnston, Laverick, Patterson, Henderson and one with no surname stated, which suggests that she was illegitimate.
Looking in the IGI at FS for births of William Walkers in Scotland 1856-1859, there are eight with father William and mother Mary, and the mothers' surnames are Johnston, Watson, Bennie, Miller, Dargan, Donelly, McIlhaney, and Gray.
The only surname on both lists is Johnston, so I deduce that the parents of this family are William Walker and Mary Johnston.
Re-running the search in Scotland using parents William Walker and Mary Johnston produces a very curious result: two sons, James and Joseph, both born in Dumfries on 3 January 1860. The reason this is curious is that they are only in the (unreliable) community contributed section of the IGI, and not in the (normally reliable) community indexed section.
However they do occur on Scotland's People, both registered in Dumfries in 1860, with consecutive numbers, so they were definitely twins. Presumably Joseph died young, but if so, it wasn't in Scotland.
I don't see a marriage of William Walker and Mary Johnston in Scotland, but James' (or Joseph's) birth certificate should tell you when and where they were married. This in turn will tell you whether John, born 1850/1851, was born before or after their marriage.
Does that help?
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"Did you mean to say that the 1871 census shows James and the 1861 shows Jane and all the rest of the family matches?"
Yes I did mean to say that. Apologies.
"Does this help ?"
Yes it does, very much so. I checked the statutory registers Scotlands People births for James and Joseph and indeed as you deduced the parents of James and Joseph are William Walker and Mary Johnston. I have ordered the birth certificate for James Walker. I am really looking forward to finding out where and when they were married and doing further research on the family.
I cannot thank you enough for your help. I have spent hours and hours of research and came nowhere near close to the information you found in researching. Makes me realise what a novice I am.
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Oh good, I'm glad it was useful.
It doesn't explain why James thought he was born in Edinburgh or Midlothian, however.
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No indeed not. It certainly did not help in my searching. I concentrated on Midlothian and Edinburgh
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No indeed not. It certainly did not help in my searching. I concentrated on Midlothian and Edinburgh
I presume that you have James' marriage certificate and that it confirms that his father's name was William. What does it say William's occupation was?
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No I don't have James marriage certificate. I have ben unable to find a marriage entry. I have my grandmothers birth certificate and also those of her siblings, all born in Birmingham except Jordie born in Warrington. The father on all of them is James Walker, iron moulder journeyman and mother Elizabeth Lyndon. I wondered that if James was Catholic and Elizabeth C of E marriage may have caused problems. I have found no baptism entries for my grandmother or her siblings. On the 1891 census Aston Manor RG 12/2437 pages 44/45 James is a boarder living with Elizabeth Lyndon and her family.
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No I don't have James marriage certificate. I have ben unable to find a marriage entry. I have my grandmothers birth certificate and also those of her siblings, all born in Birmingham except Jordie born in Warrington. The father on all of them is James Walker, iron moulder journeyman and mother Elizabeth Lyndon. I wondered that if James was Catholic and Elizabeth C of E marriage may have caused problems. I have found no baptism entries for my grandmother or her siblings. On the 1891 census Aston Manor RG 12/2437 pages 44/45 James is a boarder living with Elizabeth Lyndon and her family.
Silly of me. Of course I read the bit further up the thread, but I'd forgotten that in the middle of last night. Apologies.
I checked the index to RC baptisms and marriages in Scotland and found nothing to indicate that the family was Catholic.
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Thank you for checking RC registers for me. Its a pain not having the marriage certificate. i won't give up searching though