RootsChat.Com
Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Guy Graham on Wednesday 09 January 19 15:34 GMT (UK)
-
I'm looking to find out anything I can about a Joseph Graham. I think he originated from Scotland. I have found him on two historical documents, both marriage banns, dated 1838 and 1847. It doesn't mention him being deceased on the 1847 banns, so he was still alive then one would assume. Joseph’s occupation is recorded as Merchant.
Joseph is the father of my 3rd great-grandfather, Henry Graham 1815–1877. Henry was born in Scotland but shows up in Lambeth London in 1838.
-
Who are the 1847 banns for?
-
A family tree (yours?) has Joseph Graham death 24 Jul 1856 Middlesex and a linked probate record which names his widow as Frances?
Can you find him in 1841/1851 census.
-
It doesn't mention him being deceased on the 1847 banns, so he was still alive then one would assume.
The question asked of the bride and groom would be Fathers name & occupation, they would not necessarily be asked whether he was dead or alive :)
-
Witness to Henry's 1847 marriage was a James Graham, he also witnessed the earlier marriage. Josephs occupation on the 1838 marriage looks like 'Planter'
-
James is the half brother mentioned on the family tree I suspect. Don't know which half he was though :-\
-
The probate record that I have added to my family tree is a bit speculative on my part. I could welll have made a mistake.
I've not been able to find Joseph in any census records.
I've taken a guess that James Graham that appears on both the banns is Henry's brother.
I've found a marriage record for a Jame Beard Graham who's father is recorded as Jospeh.
-
I've taken a guess that James Graham that appears on both the banns is Henry's brother.
They are the marriage records, banns do not have witnesses.
Some records prior to registration in 1837 were used for both banns and the marriage entry.
-
Yes Milliepede, that is my tree.
If i could find a birth record for Henry Graham 1815–1877, that would give me clues about Joseph and also his wifes name but sadly I couldn't find one on the Scotlands People website :-(
-
Where do you have him on census after 1841, Sorry I am talking about Henry
-
James Beard Graham gives his place of birth as Trinidad :)
Just posting signatures for comparison ;D I think they are alike
-
Fits with father as a planter.
-
Hi Rosie,
You're right. Those signatures look very similar.
I've not been able to find Joseph or James on any census records :-(
-
where is the reference to him being born in Trinidad?
-
From 1873 to 1878 there is a James here:
James Beard Graham 5 New Quebec-street St Marylebone Westminster
-
I found James on some census by searching for his wife Sarah bn Frimley.
1851 HO107 /1510 F 102 p12
1861 RG09/72 f5 p5
1881 RG11 /89 f51 p13
1901 RG13 /62 f43 p78 Sarah was a widow
-
where is the reference to him being born in Trinidad?
He was a Saddler when he married which tied in with the census entries posted above for him and Sarah. They give his place of birth as Trinidad, West Indies
-
Thanks Rosie and Chempat. I've added those census and electoral register records to my tree.
I guess DNA will be my only means of finding out about Joseph and hopefully those that came before him :-)
-
I would like to think we could find something without you needing to resort to DNA at the moment.
James Beard Graham (full name) is appearing on electoral registers at 5 New Quebec Street in the 1870's. I have just located him there in 1871 on census, I was pleased to see him listed on ER's with his full names as it confirmed when I found him in 1871 that he was the same James I had been looking at. ;D
RG10/165 f49 p22 - 5 New Quebec Street
James Graham 50 occ Sadler bn Trinidad W.I. British subject
Sarah Graham 55 bn Frimley, Surrey
Susan Hobbs unmarried Visitor 33 bn Enfield, Middlesex
Harriett Kirtland Visitor 3 bn Marylebone, Middlesex
Harriet is still with them in 1881.
James dies in 1882
James Beard Graham
age 64
March qtr 1882
Kensington reg district
His burial is on Deceased online showing as Kensington & Chelsea buried with 15 others. James does not appear to have left a will. https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/#wills
Sarah appears as a Servant in 1891 at Warrington Crescent, Paddington RG12/5 f31 p9
In 1841 James is at Wyndham Street, Marylebone HO107 /679 bk8 f48 p34
James Graham - 20- Saddler J. (Journeyman) not born in County
-
Clutching at straws, I wonder if she is related :-\
In 1851 there is a Jane Graham also born Trinidad H0107/1499 f150 p13 (Islington)
Martha Graham age 70 occ Fund Holder -widow- bn Stepney
Elizabeth Norton-unmarried -age 80 Annuitant- bn London
Jane Graham - unmarried -NIECE- 27- Fund holder bn Trinidad
Martha Norton married David Graham (bachelor) 5 Sep 1814 St George in the East
wit. John Flint. Eliza Norton. Ann Bone.
Death
GRAHAM, MARTHA age 89
1860 March Quarter in ISLINGTON Volume 01B Page 165
Probate names a Henry Graham & Jane Louisa Graham (spinster) as 'two of the executors'
She has an address of Prior Park Buildings in the parish of Lyncombe & Lynton, Bath but died at 2 Upper Hillmarton Villas, Camden Road, Holloway which is the address also given for the executors.
Her husband David died 14 December 1840 address - Prior Park buildings to the inexpressible grief of his wife & friends - Bath Chronicle and Weekly Gazette 17 December 1840. GRO has his age at death as 75. Shame he died before a census.
.............
1861 Jane Louisa Graham with father Henry Graham (bn Scotland c1790) also a relation Sarah S Graham
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q2M2-X7SX
Jane Louisa marries a Frederick Carritt in 1867, her father is Henry Graham occ gentleman. Could her father Henry be a brother to Joseph and working in Trinidad with him :-\
In 1861 Jane is in Kingston on Thames, Surrey RG10/861 f7 p5
She dies in Brentford RD - probate index gives address as Ealing
Deaths Jun qtr 1898
Jane Louisa Carritt age 74
Brentford 3a 55
......
Sarah S Graham who was with Jane Louise & Henry in 1861
GRAHAM, SARAH SIMPSON mmn MILBURN
1840 Sept Quarter in EAST STONEHOUSE Volume 09 Page 305
1841 West Emma Place, East Stonehouse, Devon
HO107/276 bk 4 f22 p39
Joseph Graham - 60 - not born in county Independent means
Jane Graham -30 - not born in county
William Graham -14 - not bn in county
Ralph Graham - 13 born in Foreign parts
Fanny Graham 7 born Foreign parts
Stewart Graham 5 born foreign parts
Reginald Graham 2 bn Devon
Sarah Graham 10 months bn Devon
Sarah Millburn age 60 not bn in County (Independent means)
GRAHAM, REGINALD LOCKHART mmn MILBURN
1838 Dec Quarter in EAST STONEHOUSE Volume 09 Page 33
-
Interesting :-\
Reginald Lockhart Graham
Birth 08 Nov 1838
Baptism 1838
East Stonehouse
Father's first name(s) Joseph
Father's occupation Gentleman
Mother's first name(s) Jane Windle
Residence Stonehouse
Jane Simpson Graham was baptised 10 Sep 1840 - details as Reginalds
Jane Windle Millburn was baptised in Lambeth 1804 -parents Isaac & Sarah
-
Exeter Flying Post 23 January 1845
Deaths
Jan 11th at Stonehouse William Martin eldest son of the late Joseph Graham Esq of Port Spain, Trinidad age 17
Josephs death
GRAHAM, JOSEPH age 65
1842 Sept Quarter in EAST STONEHOUSE
Volume 09 Page 238
I wonder if this could be 'your Joseph' I can't see a marriage at the moment for him and Jane Millburn but could he have been married before and produced your Henry.
-
Trinidad Almanac - A Joseph Graham mentioned though nothing to link him with the family that I can see
http://ufdc.ufl.edu/AA00000050/00001/32j
Director of National Male & Female School 1823
http://ufdc.ufl.edu/AA00000050/00001/36j
Militia forces mentions Lt Col Henry Graham & Commisary General Joseph Graham and a Henry Graham (Field Officer)
http://ufdc.ufl.edu/AA00000050/00001/45j
Link to Trinidad booklet which may help with research
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01n8g/
-
Thanks for finding out all these things Rosie.
Reginald Lockhart Graham interests me very much
This tree mentions him...
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/tree/86791188/family/pedigree
The person that made the tree is a strong DNA match to my paternal grandad although not a match to me.
-
Her tree cannot be right ::)
I see, she has Reginald Lockhart Graham as the son of your Henry & Maria yet his birth registration gives mothers maiden surname as Millburn.
Reginald and your family do not appear to connect to her Graham's, they are set up as a separate tree.
-
When Sarah Simpson Graham marries in 1869 she names her father as Joseph Graham -occupation Merchant
-
I agree Rosie, there is a mistake for the reason you say.
The test kit my Granddad's a match to belongs to her Granddad Ron. There aren't that many generations that separate them (see image attached) according to her, so the amount of DNA they share share should be much higher than just...
Shared DNA: 29.9 cM across 2 segments
-
I don't pretend to even understand Ancestry DNA matches but can't see where she has a link between Hambletons and Grahams. As she has the tree wrong would this not give a wrong 'reading' on Ancestry
-
The fact she has made a mistake with Reginald Lockhart Graham’s parents does leave me wondering if she has made more mistakes linking the wrong people between Ron Hambleton and Reginald.
I think the fact R.H. is a DNA match to me has caused her to be lazy and assume our shared ancestor is Henry Graham 1815–1877. Having said that, I’m absolutely convinced we have a shared ancestor…
As well as being a match to my Grandad, RH (Ron Hambleton) is also a match to two other people I share DNA with.
One is a direct descendant of Henry Graham 1815–1877 along a different branch to me.
Henry Graham 1815–1877 >> Henry Graham 1857–1938 >> Henry Malcolm Graham 1924–1999 >> Person I’m a match to
------------
The other is a direct descendant of William Graham 1848–1916 along a different branch to me.
William Graham 1848–1916 >> Arthur Charles Ernest Hamilton Graham 1873–1957 >> William Douglas Grant Hamilton 1914–1988 >> Person I’m a match to
The people I've made bold and purple are shared ancestors. I hope i've explained it in a way that makes sense :-)
-
Thank you, your explanation was very clear :)
It does look as though the Joseph living in Devon could be Henry's father. I wish I could locate the marriage between him and Jane Millburn though it is possible they never married.
I have tried to locate the children who were born abroad that were showing in 1841 but no further sightings I am afraid.
ADDED
Just found Fanny in 1851 & 1861 - born Trinidad - The 1851 also has St Ames
H0107/1870 f33 p21
RG09/1408 f97 p15
-
Thanks for tracking down Fanny in those two census records :-)
I've found these three trees that all have Joseph Graham in them;
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/tree/20025118/family/pedigree
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/tree/5241663/family/pedigree
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/tree/48411175/family/pedigree
This tree...
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/45770706/person/6424026010/facts
gives an exact date and place for the marriage of Joseph Graham and Jane Milburn. Sadly it doesn't link to a marriage record. I don't have a worldwide access membership with Ancestry, so I wouldn't be able to check it even if they did.
-
I can see a marriage for a Henry Graham and a Mary Jane Chapman on 26 January 1837 in Clinton Ohio, not Joseph and Milburn.
Still looking.
-
It looks as though those trees are just copies of each other, none appear to have purchased Reginalds birth certificate and all have given his father Joseph a middle name. Sorry, I don't have worldwide access either.
I would have thought that if Joseph did have a middle name it would have been on Reginalds and/or Sarah S baptism entries which do give the middle name of their mother ie Jane Windle. Their fathers occ on the baptisms was Gentleman.
-
I think you're right Rosie about them being copies. I'll purchase Reginald's birth and Joseph's death cert to see if they reveal anymore clues.
Thanks again for all your help :)
-
Thanks for checking that for me Chempat :)
-
Although we don't have proof that the Devon Joseph is father of your Henry and James Beard Graham I think probably the way to progress is to see if any Trinidad records exist for James Beard and the children born abroad to Joseph in Devon. Maybe some clue as to Joseph's probable first wife.