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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Beryl Ninian on Thursday 10 January 19 15:59 GMT (UK)
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Where do I look for German man married to English woman in 1909, fathered 2 children (last child born here 1915) and then disappeared. I have none of his family to relate to.
Thanks
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Have you found them on the 1911 census - their marriage certificate should give the name/occupation of his father as a starting point :)
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Welcome to Rootschat
When you say he disappeared - do you mean you can't trace him after then or do you mean he abandoned the family in 1915?
What is his occupation on the 1909 marriage cert? If he was a mariner - he may have drowned at sea but we really need to know what other info you have
Can we have names of him & wife /location of marriage etc etc
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Beryl,
It may have been that your man was one of those interned on the Isle of Man - see this link:
https://www.europeana.eu/portal/en/record/2020601/contributions_3969.html
(scroll down a fair way to find the content: Civilian Prisoners in the UK).
Willyam
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Beryl,
It may have been that your man was one of those interned on the Isle of Man - see this link:
https://www.europeana.eu/portal/en/record/2020601/contributions_3969.html
(scroll down a fair way to find the content: Civilian Prisoners in the UK).
Willyam
There's more here on these people:
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/internees/
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Was he still around for birth registration of child born 1915? When was that child born? Was it conceived pre-war? I think when war was declared that Germans living in Britain were given time to leave. Wouldn't any who remained have had to register as aliens?
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Beryl - Are we talking about events in Lancashire or elsewhere?
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If you give his name, then I can check Internee Burials on IoM.
But most internee records are at The National Archives.
See www.knockaloe.im for more information on IoM Internees.
EDIT: corrected URL
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Beryl,
It may have been that your man was one of those interned on the Isle of Man - see this link:
https://www.europeana.eu/portal/en/record/2020601/contributions_3969.html
(scroll down a fair way to find the content: Civilian Prisoners in the UK).
Willyam
That is brilliant... is there a similar site for internees on IoM during WWll ?
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Beryl,
It may have been that your man was one of those interned on the Isle of Man - see this link:
https://www.europeana.eu/portal/en/record/2020601/contributions_3969.html
(scroll down a fair way to find the content: Civilian Prisoners in the UK).
Willyam
That is brilliant... is there a similar site for internees on IoM during WWll ?
as far as I know there is nothing on the Isle of Man - any records will be at TNA.
I also suspect they will not be public yet - there's the usual 100 years closure period I think?
(Happy to be proved wrong)
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Beryl,
It may have been that your man was one of those interned on the Isle of Man - see this link:
https://www.europeana.eu/portal/en/record/2020601/contributions_3969.html
(scroll down a fair way to find the content: Civilian Prisoners in the UK).
Willyam
That is brilliant... is there a similar site for internees on IoM during WWll ?
as far as I know there is nothing on the Isle of Man - any records will be at TNA.
I also suspect they will not be public yet - there's the usual 100 years closure period I think?
(Happy to be proved wrong)
There's quite a bit of WW2 material at TNA - I've looked at some files, and some is available via FindMyPast. However it's patchy!
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That is brilliant... is there a similar site for internees on IoM during WWll ?
I also suspect they will not be public yet - there's the usual 100 years closure period I think?
(Happy to be proved wrong)
Oh of course... :-[ Good point. Thanks.
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You might be lucky and find the County archives have some Police files regarding "Aliens" in WWI.
It was the Police's job to record all German "Aliens"; some of whom were sent to camps and others were Registered, given a Permit and allowed to stay with their families, but had to report to the local police station daily. Some areas in towns were "sensitive", such as near the coast, near defence structures, etc., and possibly the family would have to remove to a less restricted zone.
Even though your ancestor's wife was English, she became a German once she married your German born ancestor. and she too would have been registered as such - see 1917 "Aliens Dept" attachment.
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Beryl - Are we talking about events in Lancashire or elsewhere?
The German man's name is HerrCurt Adolf Behrendt born 1885, (I think in Metz. France) married in Chorlton, s.manchester 1909 to Madge Price at registry office. He fathered 2 children, last child named Joseph Behrendt b.1915, lived at 22 Witton Street, Chorlton on Medlock, s.manchester. then I have lost him and his wife remarried in 1921 to Englishman and declared herself a widow. However I have Herr Behrendt from 1925 sailing backwards and forwards from various European ports to various US ports.
What I need to know is why he didn't come back to English wife after leaving sometime in 1915 (son born 23.6.1915) was he interned or did he go back to Germany I know Herr Behrendt was a German Jew. His father was Adolf Behrendt on Curt's marriage certificate and that father was listed on same as brickmaker "master". Curt Adolf Behrendt was listed on marriage certificate as shippers clerk
Any help really appreciated
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You might be lucky and find the County archives have some Police files regarding "Aliens" in WWI.
It was the Police's job to record all German "Aliens"; some of whom were sent to camps and others were Registered, given a Permit and allowed to stay with their families, but had to report to the local police station daily. Some areas in towns were "sensitive", such as near the coast, near defence structures, etc., and possibly the family would have to remove to a less restricted zone.
Even though your ancestor's wife was English, she became a German once she married your German born ancestor. and she too would have been registered as such - see 1917 "Aliens Dept" attachment.
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The German man's name is HerrCurt Adolf Behrendt born 1885, (I think in Metz. France) married in Chorlton, s.manchester 1909 to Madge Price at registry office. He fathered 2 children, last child named Joseph Behrendt b.1915, lived at 22 Witton Street, Chorlton on Medlock, s.manchester. then I have lost him and his wife remarried in 1921 to Englishman and declared herself a widow. However I have Herr Behrendt from 1925 sailing backwards and forwards from various European ports to various US ports.
What I need to know is why he didn't come back to English wife after leaving sometime in 1915 (son born 23.6.1915) was he interned or did he go back to Germany.
If he'd been gone 7 or so years by 1921 then his wife may have thought she was entitled to regard herself as a widow. Did Curt register birth of Joseph, 1915? If not, he might have been gone by then.
Perhaps he and wife parted so that she could make a new life for herself with an English husband. Were the children brought up with the surname Behrendt?
Perhaps he didn't return to his wife, fearing anti-German feelings. It may have been difficult for him to get work in Britain. Consider economic and social conditions in post-war Britain. Returned British soldiers got priority in employment. Clerical positions were needed for those who were physically disabled.
If he'd returned to Germany he may have joined up for war service. War didn't end officially until 1919. When would he have ceased being an enemy alien?
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However I have Herr Behrendt from 1925 sailing backwards and forwards from various European ports to various US ports.
Im not convinced this is the same fellow, as the one sailing around (born Metz) is an architect, and first name (handwritten on one of the ledgers) was Walter.
I did find a marriage in Hamburg, in 1919, for a Curt Adolf Behrendt, son of Gustav Adolf Behrendt. Unfortunately, I can't read German, so I have no idea if he was single/widowed etc. He gives a birth date of 13 Dec 1884.
However, he may very well have died just as Madge claimed on her remarriage.
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1915 was when the Lusitania was sunk, not a good time to be a German in England.
http://web.archive.org/web/20070101225713/http://www.mcrh.mmu.ac.uk/pubs/pdf/mrhr_02ii_panayi.pdf
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I checked my list of c250 Internee burials on the Isle of Man.
Nobody by the name of Behrendt on the list.
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He may also have changed his name(s) to ones that are not so German or Jewish sounding.
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I checked my list of c250 Internee burials on the Isle of Man.
Nobody by the name of Behrendt on the list.
Thank you for checking that fact
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He may also have changed his name(s) to ones that are not so German or Jewish sounding.
[/quo
I don't think he did that as I have him crossing backwards and forwards from English ports to US ports from 1925 and all manifests show him as Curt Adolf Behrendt but thank you for replying
Beryl Ninian
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He may also have changed his name(s) to ones that are not so German or Jewish sounding.
I know hedidnt do that as I have him listed as Curt Adolf Behrendt on ships manifests from 1925 crossing from English ports to US ports. I just need to know why he didn't come back to his English wife and 2 children after the Ww1 and where he went at that time until I find him on various ships.
Thank you anyway
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Have you found them on the 1911 census - their marriage certificate should give the name/occupation of his father as a starting point :)
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No I haven't checked 1911 census but will do so soon. I have Curt Adolf Behrendt and Madge Price's marriage certificate and have his father's occupation as brickmaker "master" and I know where they lived when children were born
Thank you for replying
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bbart put:
'Im not convinced this is the same fellow, as the one sailing around (born Metz) is an architect, and first name (handwritten on one of the ledgers) was Walter.'
Is yours an architect?
Added: no, a clerk....
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Cart Adolf Behrendt
Gender: männlich (Male)
Birth Date: 13 Dez 1884 (13 Dec 1884)
Birth Place: Altstadt, Sachsen-Anhalt (Saxony-Anhalt), Deutschland (Germany)
Civil Registration Office: Altstadt
Mother: Friederike Johanne Helene Emma Behrendt
Father: Gustav Adolf Behrendt
Certificate Number: 3741
Signatur: 1.0099
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Was Curt named as father on Joseph's birth certificate?
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Curt Adolf Behrendt
Birth Date:13 Dec 1884
Marriage Date: 1 Aug 1919 at Hamburg, Hamburg, Deutschland
Civil Registration Office: Hamburg 03a
Spouse: Johanna Alwine Emma Paul Ernestine Wilhelmine Steinbrecht Diedrich
Father: Gustav Adolf Behrendt
Mother: Friederike Johanne Helene Emma Schwartz
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Did that image load properly - it crashed my computer?
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Was Curt named as father on Joseph's birth certificate?
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Yes and both children brought up as Behrendts. This for reply
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Did that image load properly - it crashed my computer?
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Yes I read it - this. Checking my files]
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Could u possibly send yr reply again - this would be greatly appreciated thanks
Beryl Ninia
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Was he still around for birth registration of child born 1915? When was that child born? Was it conceived pre-war? I think when war was declared that Germans living in Britain were given time to leave. Wouldn't any who remained have had to register as aliens?
[/quo
I do t know if Herr Curt Adolf Behrendt was around for birth of son born June 1915. I don't know when he left his wife and 2 children for definite I have visited the old police stn in Manchester but they advise relevant records were burnt where they were held in Salford,Manchester.
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If you give his name, then I can check Internee Burials on IoM.
But most internee records are at The National Archives.
See www.knockaloe.im for more information on IoM Internees.
EDIT: corrected URL
His name was Curt Adolf Behrendt, born 1884, married in district of Chorlton , S.Manchester In 1909 to Madge Price
Disappeared from my records after birth of son,Joseph Behrendt in June 1915.
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Signature, I hope.
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Signature, I hope.
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Thank you very much for all your searching into Curt A Behrendt. The sign ature you found had been understood,approved and signed (or so itread when I translated the wording ) I'm guessing it was his marriage certificate as it gavename of one of her family members.
I still need to know where he went after leaving his English family in 1915 until his second marriage. I think I have found him sailing from Hamburg on the SS A.Ballin to New York in 1925 - info states Herr Behrendt on this ship was 40years old (which fits him from dob of 13.12.1884) Occupation stated as Architect. Transit no.28060 on ship's manifest. Only thing confusing is occupation.- at first marriage he was a shipping clerk.
Beryl Ninian
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I think I have found him sailing from Hamburg on the SS A.Ballin to New York in 1925 - info states Herr Behrendt on this ship was 40years old (which fits him from dob of 13.12.1884) Occupation stated as Architect. Transit no.28060 on ship's manifest. Only thing confusing is occupation.- at first marriage he was a shipping clerk.
This architect married his wife Lydia Hoffman in 1913 in Germany. I really think this is a totally different man.
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I think I have found him sailing from Hamburg on the SS A.Ballin to New York in 1925 - info states Herr Behrendt on this ship was 40years old (which fits him from dob of 13.12.1884) Occupation stated as Architect. Transit no.28060 on ship's manifest. Only thing confusing is occupation.- at first marriage he was a shipping clerk.
This architect married his wife Lydia Hoffman in 1913 in Germany. I really think this is a totally different man.
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Yes, you are correct and I had the wrong Herr Behrendt. Thank you for your research. I silll wonder where he went after fathering his second child in 1915 in Chorlton, S Manchester at 22 Witton St, Chorlton-on-Medlock, M/cr.
I think he was on a casualty list in 1916 with 4th Kompagnie, Deutschtal mansfeld sp? (from a German reading)
Beryl Niniam