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Research in Other Countries => United States of America => Topic started by: BingoBuster on Monday 14 January 19 21:51 GMT (UK)
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Hello there!
Was wondering if anyone could help me with some further details. I recently found out that several of my great uncles had been apart of a vaudeville / acrobatic act called either 'The Four Rianos" or 'The Riano Brothers". Three of them runaway to join when they were young. I haven't been able to bring up anything aside from a similarly named act but I'm not sure if they are related or not. Here's what I have so far.
Parents: James L. Dobbins / Mary A. Cryan
- Francis Dobbins / 1879– BIRTH ABT 1879 • Oswego CO NY/ DEATH New York City, New York
- Robert Dobbins - ABT 1864 • Dutchess CO NY
- William Dobbins - ABT 1873 • Sullivan CO NY / 30 JULY 1942
I also know Francis had a daughter named Renee who was an actress on Broadway and then went to Hollywood as a character actor. Another aspect I'm really curious about. I don't have anything on her.
I have only been able to find obscure scans of newspaper articles without any reference to date / publishings, but I'm really intrigued and was hoping anyone would be able to assist me in this endeavor if possible. Thanks!
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If you do a search on the exact phrase "four Rianos" at the Fulton History site, there are many, many newspaper articles.
http://www.fultonhistory.com/Fulton.html
Here's a sample from the Rome Daily Sentinel [Rome, NY], 5 May 1903, p. 2
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Here's the family in 1880:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-9YBJ-9XDQ?cc=1417683
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Marriage of Francis Dobbins:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:24HZ-WYY
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One reason they're hard to find is that they were out of the country for a prolonged period. Then they changed to the 'Three Rianos' after one of them died.
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Clipping of a black and white photograph of The Four Rianos, two in animal costumes
Date Range
1900-1909, 1910-1919
http://speccoll.library.arizona.edu/collections/vaudeville/items/the-four-rianos/
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Amazing finds. Thank you! I didn't even know about the death of one of them, hence why it was probably tricky to find anything concrete! Is there anything pertaining to Renee perchance or her career name on broadway or hollywood?
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Clip at google newspapers of Rene Riano vs husband John W Neil for non-support, etc.
She says "My mother and father playte on the stage together for 25 years. They belong to the Four Rianos, known on the first-class vaudeville circuits."
article: Woodville Republican, July 10, 1920
https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=999&dat=19200710&id=qRwlAAAAIBAJ&sjid=yhIGAAAAIBAJ&pg=2962,399097
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google "four rianos" for more.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renie_Riano
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https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0722690/
That was fun! :)
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renie_Riano
Not 100% sure if that's the same person? Anyways, thank you for investigating! This was a good amount of info to go off on :)
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renie_Riano
Not 100% sure if that's the same person? Anyways, thank you for investigating! This was a good amount of info to go off on :)
I'm pretty sure it's her. the article says her mother was the only female of the Four Rianos, and the Woodville Republican article sais pretty much the same thing.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renie_Riano
Not 100% sure if that's the same person? Anyways, thank you for investigating! This was a good amount of info to go off on :)
I'm pretty sure it's her. the article says her mother was the only female of the Four Rianos, and the Woodville Republican article sais pretty much the same thing.
Only reason I say is because I saw that her father was different via wikiepdia. I want sure if that has any relevance or such. I could only find the name references to William and Robert and a man named John W riano for being named on the rianos and google would bring up irene and Robert riano for the act. So I'm not sure if it was a similarly named group or if it was a large traveling act that had multiple parties.
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Some of their travels here:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01n98/
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1920 census Irene
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-9RN8-W9Z?i=45&cc=1488411
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Is there anything confirming Renee's parentage per chance? If it was Francis or someone else?
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Back soon. Listening to the news.
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Renie Riano, grave
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/6953429/renie-riano
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According to the Wikipedia article, Renie Isabel Riano was born on 7 August 1899 in England. This is confirmed by the England/Wales index of registered births.
Name: Rene Isabel Riano
Event Type: Birth Registration
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration Year: 1899
Registration District: Lambeth
County: London
Event Place: Lambeth, London, England
Volume: 1D
Page: 316
Affiliate Line Number: 316
And also by the SSDI:
Renie Riano
United States Social Security Death Index
Age: 72
Given Name: Renie
Surname: Riano
Birth Date: 07 Aug 1899
State: California
Last Place of Residence: Los Angeles, California
Previous Residence Postal Code: 90069
Event Date: Jul 1971
Wikipedia identifies her parents as Irene and Robert Riano. You could obtain her birth certificate to confirm the names of her parents.
An article in the NYT, 20 December 1925 ['The Sisters Nash and Some Others'] identifies her mother as Irene Riano. You can find this article and numerous others at the Fulton History site - search for the words 'Renie + Riano + Irene.'
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The Daily Notes (Canonsburg, Pennsylvania) - 24 Aug 1949, Wed - Page 2 (with photograph)
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/27240603/renie_riano/
Sandra
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US Passport Application - Renie Riano or Neil born 7 August 1900 - 1923 - go forward to the next couple of pages of the passport (photo not brilliant)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-99DQ-MQF3-V?i=621&cc=2185145
Sandra
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Daughter Irene - John Neil.....................
U.S., Social Security Applications and Claims Index - Jane Helen Riano - Jane Ria Montgomery - Jane Montgomery - Jane Forsman - Jane Neil - 8 July 1918 - passed away 9 November 2003 -
Sandra
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1920 census Irene
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-9RN8-W9Z?i=45&cc=1488411
In the same household as Rene's husband and daughter, but no Rene.
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Robert D Riano, Death, 5 Mar 1909, Manhattan, age 42, born in Auburn, New York, father James, mother: Mary Crying, both born in Ireland
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2W9X-79H
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The New York Times (New York, New York) 8 Mar 1909, Mon - Page 7
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/27241033/robert_d_riano/
Sandra
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The Brooklyn Daily Eagle (Brooklyn, New York) 27 Feb 1926, Sat - Page 4
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/27241045/renie_riano/
Sandra
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As regards the passport ....
"I solemnly swear that I was born at New York City in the State of New York on or about the 7th day of August 1900"
And that was a lie.
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It doesn't look like Frank was the father of Renie Riano. Everything else about the family story seems correct, though.
He was married in 1908 in NYC (see earlier reply), and in 1910 had no children. Renie was born in 1899 in London.
In 1910 he was a time keeper, and by 1918 he was blind in one eye.
Here are a few things I found for Frank. The 1915, 1925 census might show children to the couple, but I don't have ancestry.com. I haven't found them in 1920.
1910 Census, Bronx
914 Summit Avenue
Frank J Dobbins, 30, born in New York, parents in Ireland, time keeper for a railroad contractor
Catherine J Dobbins, 22, married for 2 years, no children
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X39X-RYN
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NYC 1915 same page and house #
Frank and Katherine Dobbins
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:K92V-KYS
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:K92V-KY3
ancestry.com has the images
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NYC 1925 same page and house #
Frank and Katherine Dobbins
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KS3K-MKH
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KS3K-MKW
ancestry.com has the images
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WWI Draft Registration
Central Park Arsenal, Sep 12, 1918
Frank John Dobbins
b October 12, 1879
lives at 347 West 58th
spouse Kathrine at same residence
owns a trucking business at 246 West 46th, NYC
physical description: medium height, slender build, grey eyes, brown hair - right eye blind
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:K6J8-Q9J
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1920 Passport Application of Catherine Dobbins,
husband Frank Dobbins was born in Fulton, NY and now resides at 346 West 48th [check my transcribing, doesn't match his 1918 address, but is close enough to be a mistake]
note: "husband's baptism certificate seen"
she's going to England to see her parents, Ireland to see friends, France to see friends - but a lot seems to be crossed out as well
sails June 10, 1920
picture of Catherine
not much more about Frank
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QV5B-Z8XL
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New York City Municipal Deaths, 1795-1949
Name: Frank Dobbins
Event Type: Death
Event Date: 25 Feb 1926
Event Place: Bronx, New York, New York, United States
Gender: Male
Age: 46
Father's Name: James
Mother's Name: Mary Cryan
Spouse's Name: Kate Dobbins
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2WG4-JTR
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Irene, Renie and Jane Riano - witnesses in a notorious 1936 New Zealand murder trial
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01n99/
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Okay, that's odd. Guess word of mouth from family is to be taken lightly. Is there anything in regards to his brothers William and Robert who were part of the act?
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Photo of Renie, aged 62, in her trailer home with her dog Tuppin.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01n9a/
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Okay, that's odd. Guess word of mouth from family is to be taken lightly. Is there anything in regards to his brothers William and Robert who were part of the act?
Actually, I found this from the post above interesting:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2W9X-79H
Could this be the brother Robert? Maybe him being related to Renee? His father's name is James and the Mother's name is Mary Crying. I know mispellings and translations happen but Crying is close to Cryan. Thoughts?
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Okay, that's odd. Guess word of mouth from family is to be taken lightly. Is there anything in regards to his brothers William and Robert who were part of the act?
Actually, I found this from the post above interesting:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2W9X-79H
Could this be the brother Robert? Maybe him being related to Renee? His father's name is James and the Mother's name is Mary Crying. I know mispellings and translations happen but Crying is close to Cryan. Thoughts?
That's Robert.
I've seen Cryan, Crine, Crean, and Crying as variations so far. Pretend you're Irish, if you aren't already, and start pronouncing them. You might even turn up a Cran or Crane if you go back far enough.
Re: family stories, 99% of them are 99% correct, in my opinion. Don't discount anything you have been passed down. There is probably some truth in it, unless the family was outright covering up something they didn't want to tell the children.
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Here's the family in 1870
1870 Census, Bethel, Sullivan County, NY
James 36, a gardener, male citizen of US, no Real Estate, has $100 personal estate, born in Ireland
Mary 32, born in Ireland
John 11, born in New York
Thomas 9, born in New York
Margaret 8, born in New York
Robert 5, born in New York
Michael 3, born in New York
James 1, born in New York
Mary Cryne, 55, occupation information, if readable, might be informative, born in Ireland
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M8KG-24H
and there is a Mary Crine in Bethel, NY, in 1860, but with a lot of children. If it is Mary (Cryne) Dobbins' mother, then you'd have to account for where the children went. I don't really think it is, because there is no mention of Canada in the births of her children
here it is for filing away, just in case:
1860 Census, Bethel, Sullivan County, NY
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MCH7-QLG
I looked for the Dobbins in 1860 and 1861 in US and Canada, but with no success.
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Okay, that's odd. Guess word of mouth from family is to be taken lightly. Is there anything in regards to his brothers William and Robert who were part of the act?
Actually, I found this from the post above interesting:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2W9X-79H
Could this be the brother Robert? Maybe him being related to Renee? His father's name is James and the Mother's name is Mary Crying. I know mispellings and translations happen but Crying is close to Cryan. Thoughts?
That's Robert.
I've seen Cryan, Crine, Crean, and Crying as variations so far. Pretend you're Irish, if you aren't already, and start pronouncing them. You might even turn up a Cran or Crane if you go back far enough.
Re: family stories, 99% of them are 99% correct, in my opinion. Don't discount anything you have been passed down. There is probably some truth in it, unless the family was outright covering up something they didn't want to tell the children.
No that make sense. The only thing thats standing out is that all the articles I'm cross referencing from the brothers being the Four Rianos has this information: How it states that its composed of Robert / William / Robert's wife and daughter. I also found one other paper article that has a suppsoed picture of the brothers too. But when I google this information, (specifically Renee Riano's page) its showing conflicting info that either there's another act by the same name or the information was wrong. Guess that's where I'm second guessing the validity of what I've been told.
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"Okay, that's odd. Guess word of mouth from family is to be taken lightly. Is there anything in regards to his brothers William and Robert who were part of the act?"
All of the currently available evidence indicates that Renee/Rene/Renie was the daughter of Robert Dobbins, aka Robert Riano, and his wife Irene who were both members of the 'Four Rianos.'
I have been looking for the marriage of Robert and Irene, but no luck so far. According to the previously linked Wikipedia article, Irene's father was "Joseph Rice, a Philadelphia theatre owner." However, I think this is Irene's death and it gives her father's surname as Couples:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VG5D-SL7
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I have been looking for the marriage of Robert and Irene, but no luck so far. According to the previously linked Wikipedia article, Irene's father was "Joseph Rice, a Philadelphia theatre owner." However, I think this is Irene's death and it gives her father's surname as Couples:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VG5D-SL7
and I think I found one source that said she was born in Ohio, but I don't remember where now. I don't think Joseph Rice is correct either.
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William was in show business. here is a passport application. then his likely SSDI with a death in 1963. The year of birth is off by 1 year and the month and day is correct. That happens about as many times as not. The SSDI might be the right date - and the information on the application incorrect, since he seemed to have a bit of trouble deciding between 1874 and 1872.
Passport Application
issued January 2, 1917
American Counsulate General, Montreal
Wm Henry Dobbins
born 13 September 1872 [1874 was overwritten], in Mong Gaup Valley, NY
father is a naturalized citizen and is deceased
living at 347 West 58th NY, is an actor,
temporarily sojourning at Montreal
plans to go to Australia for theatrical work and return within a year
identifying document included: affidavit of brother Frank J Dobbins
sworn 30 December 1916
stamped January 2, 1917
picture of William
[shares same address in NYC as Frank in 1918]
the next passport application in the book is from John James Bourke, also an actor, also headed to Australia. Mr Bourke testified to the truth of William Dobbins information.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QVJP-9R7L
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United States Social Security Death Index
Age: 90
Given Name: William
Surname: Riano
Birth Date: 13 Sep 1873
State: New York
Event Date: Nov 1963
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JTBW-5WR
so this might be him:
William Riano
Birth 1874
Death 1963 (aged 88–89)
Burial
Kensico Cemetery
Valhalla, Westchester County, New York, USA
Memorial ID 105838983
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/105838983
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and maybe him in 1925 in NYC, age 51.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KSQX-PY6
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Assuming that the previously linked California death record is the correct Irene Riano, then this would appear to be her birth in Ohio:
Name: Alice Irene Couples
Gender: Female
Birth Date: 04 Jul 1871
Birthplace: CLARK,OHIO
Father's Name: J. B. Couples
Mother's Name: Mary Ann Charters
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XX8C-ND4
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San Francisco Mortuary Records - Irene A Riano
http://www.sfgenealogy.org/php/sfmrsearch/sfmrviewer.php?a=+35073+&b=+0+&c=+2+&button=previous+image
http://www.sfgenealogy.org/php/sfmrsearch/sfmrviewer.php?a=+35073+&b=+0+&c=+1+&button=show+big+image
Sandra
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1880 census Irene
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-GYBV-98BN?i=6&cc=1417683
"Is the person sick or temporarily disabled ...."
Weird. In answer to this question, Irene's mother is recorded as "dead" which is a rather broad interpretation of temporary disablement.
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Okay, that's odd. Guess word of mouth from family is to be taken lightly. Is there anything in regards to his brothers William and Robert who were part of the act?
Actually, I found this from the post above interesting:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2W9X-79H
Could this be the brother Robert? Maybe him being related to Renee? His father's name is James and the Mother's name is Mary Crying. I know mispellings and translations happen but Crying is close to Cryan. Thoughts?
That's Robert.
I've seen Cryan, Crine, Crean, and Crying as variations so far. Pretend you're Irish, if you aren't already, and start pronouncing them. You might even turn up a Cran or Crane if you go back far enough.
Re: family stories, 99% of them are 99% correct, in my opinion. Don't discount anything you have been passed down. There is probably some truth in it, unless the family was outright covering up something they didn't want to tell the children.
From the information people have been compiling, it could be that they legally changed their last names to their stage names perhaps? This is getting rather interesting
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I'm back. After four hours, the electric company finally came and fixed whatever was wrong with the electrical doodad on the corner which had left the whole neighborhood without electricity.
So, what should we focus on?
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I'm back. After four hours, the electric company finally came and fixed whatever was wrong with the electrical doodad on the corner which had left the whole neighborhood without electricity.
So, what should we focus on?
Welcome back to the land of illumination! I was going through the records of the Fulton History website with newspaper articles. So my reaction to Robert Dobbins and Robert Riano was put to rest and found an article on his death that had his given name as he adopted his stage name as a surname. So that all checks out.
What I've been trying to find is any indicators or pictures of the brothers. Some awesome people on here found William's passport and I think I have Francis' wife's passport picture. I can't find any pictures on Frank or Robert per say, aside from a grainy group photo from a newspaper article. I know information is scare but I'd be content if what we have is all we'll be able to get.
I also dug up the plethora of information from IMDB on Renie Riano's career. If there's any information on Renie's daughter Jane Riano (née Neil) and her career, that'd be really cool to have.
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The Brooklyn Daily Eagle (Brooklyn, New York) 19 Jun 1920, Sat - Page 2
Rene Riano Neil wants the custody of two year old daughter.
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/27257099/riano_neil_custody/
Sandra
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Daily News (New York, New York) 11 Jun 1920, Fri - Other Editions • Page 6
Dancer leaves in trunk as sheriff waits at door
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/27257182/daily_news/
Sandra
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Daily News (New York, New York) 11 Jun 1920, Fri - Other Editions • Page 6
Dancer leaves in trunk as sheriff waits at door
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/27257182/daily_news/
Sandra
This was by far the best article so far in my opinion.
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The San Francisco Examiner (San Francisco, California) - 27 Jan 1963, Sun - Page 95
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/27257702/once_a_vagabond/
Sandra
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The Los Angeles Times (Los Angeles, California) 18 Jul 1937, Sun - Page 56
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/27257798/jane_riano/
Sandra
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The Gazette (Montreal, Canada) 20 Mar 1941, Thursday - Page 3
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/27258099/renie_riano_is_rated_marco_polo_of/
Sandra
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Bookmarking because I want to hear more!
Fantastic ;D Kit
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It's not great but here's a photo of Robert and William in 1901:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01n9f/
Maybe a better copy:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01n9g/
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From New Zealand:
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Two more. For additional New Zealand newspaper articles go to:
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers?query=riano&snippet=true
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The Cincinnati Enquirer (Cincinnati, Ohio) 18 Sep 1946, Wed - Page 17
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/27275439/renie_riano/
Sandra
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It's not great but here's a photo of Robert and William in 1901:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01n9f/
Maybe a better copy:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01n9g/
That's a great find! And thank you for the higher quality picture.
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Two more. For additional New Zealand newspaper articles go to:
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers?query=riano&snippet=true
I wonder if the second of these pictures, of "Mrs Riano" in post #54, is Irene (Couples/Rice) Dobbins/Riano. The date is 1936 and she would have been 65. Her daughter Renie was only 37.
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The Cincinnati Enquirer (Cincinnati, Ohio) 18 Sep 1946, Wed - Page 17
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/27275439/renie_riano/
Sandra
This article says that Renie Riano's grandfather was Samuel Couples, and that he owned the Walnut Theatre in that city. His daughter Irene took the stage name of Irene Rice. Which partly explains why the Wikipedia article said his name was Joseph Rice. See posts #36 to #39. The name on the 1880 census is Joseph Couples. (post #41).
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Two more. For additional New Zealand newspaper articles go to:
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers?query=riano&snippet=true
I wonder if the second of these pictures, of "Mrs Riano" in post #54, is Irene (Couples/Rice) Dobbins/Riano. The date is 1936 and she would have been 65. Her daughter Renie was only 37.
I didn't even consider that. That could be a good catch!
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Yes, that's why I named that photo "Irene Riano."
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Yes, that's why I named that photo "Irene Riano."
Sorry, partly I missed the title, and partly I got the names confused Irene vs Renie.
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This is the part of the Cincinnati Enquirer article that I found curious: "the Four Rianos, the family act in which her mother, father, uncle and step-brother appeared."
Who was the step-brother? Was he the Australian called John W. Riano? How could he have been a step-brother?
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The Cincinnati Enquirer (Cincinnati, Ohio) 18 Sep 1946, Wed - Page 17
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/27275439/renie_riano/
Sandra
This article says that Renie Riano's grandfather was Samuel Couples, and that he owned the Walnut Theatre in that city. His daughter Irene took the stage name of Irene Rice. Which partly explains why the Wikipedia article said his name was Joseph Rice. See posts #36 to #39. The name on the 1880 census is Joseph Couples. (post #41).
Joseph's father was named Samuel, but no sign that he owned a theater. 1870, age 69, he is a laborer.
1860:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MCGM-DW6
1870
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M6L9-1R5
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This is the part of the Cincinnati Enquirer article that I found curious: "the Four Rianos, the family act in which her mother, father, uncle and step-brother appeared."
Who was the step-brother? Was he the Australian called John W. Riano? How could he have been a step-brother?
The oldest brother in the family was John, born about 1859 either in Canada (1880 Census) or New York (1870). Maybe it's him. He would be her father's brother at least. But the wife's age in the household allows for her to be his mother as well. So ..?
I found a credit for a play written by John W Riano and will attach the image. It's from
Dramatic Compositions Copyrighted in the United States, 1870 to 1916 ...
Library of Congress. Copyright Office
U.S. Government Printing Office, 1918
https://books.google.com/books?id=hjLKGXpTj-sC&pg=PA2382&lpg=PA2382&dq=John+W.+Riano&source=bl&ots=1xPtB6qTb_&sig=BzdKieRpWtf7dkIzBFIDxFArf_E&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiTv_aT0PLfAhVMzlQKHWLoA0gQ6AEwAnoECAMQAQ#v=onepage&q=John%20W.%20Riano&f=false
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This snippet suggests that in 1898, Irene was not yet calling herself Riano. Maybe Irene and Robert got married somewhere in Europe during the European tour.
The New York Clipper, 1 January 1898 [from the Vaudeville and Minstrel section of the paper]:
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Irene Riano, Renie Neil, and Jane Neil, returning from the Fiji Islands, June 30, 1936, to Los Angeles
Irene born July 4, 1872, London, Ohio
Renie born "August 7, 1900, New York City"
Jane born July 8, 1919, Philadelphia, PA
address in US: Hollywood Plaza Hotel, Hollywood, California
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KZQW-B2K
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At Fulton History, there are many small references to Irene Rice. She was an acrobatic dancer at least as early as 1891. An ad in the 26 September 1891 'National Police Gazette' offers "cabinet size photos of actresses in tights" at ten cents each; the list is long and includes Irene Rice.
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There is a John Riano who plays a man in an ape suit in the movie "Boarding House Blues" (1948). I don't think this is the brother of our Rianos, since he would be 88 at the time, and one of the reviews talks about him taking falls as part of the act. Maybe it is the next generation. The ape suit is what got my attention, since the Four Rianos dressed like that in the act, based on one of the pictures posted earlier.
Or it could just be an unrelated actor who liked the name and the concept.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0040176/reviews?ref_=tt_urv
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Irene Riano, Renie Neil, and Jane Neil, returning from the Fiji Islands, June 30, 1936, to Los Angeles
Irene born July 4, 1872, London, Ohio
Renie born "August 7, 1900, New York City"
Jane born July 8, 1919, Philadelphia, PA
address in US: Hollywood Plaza Hotel, Hollywood, California
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KZQW-B2K
I looked at dobsearch.com for "Jane" with this exact date of birth, but was able to eliminate all the women who turned up. She might have decided to go by something else as an adult, or she died before the databases were assembled.
Also looked for surname "Neil" and surname "Riano". also looked for exact dob in California. Nothing looked good.
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Irene Riano, Renie Neil, and Jane Neil, returning from the Fiji Islands, June 30, 1936, to Los Angeles
Irene born July 4, 1872, London, Ohio
Renie born "August 7, 1900, New York City"
Jane born July 8, 1919, Philadelphia, PA
address in US: Hollywood Plaza Hotel, Hollywood, California
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KZQW-B2K
I looked at dobsearch.com for "Jane" with this exact date of birth, but was able to eliminate all the women who turned up. She might have decided to go by something else as an adult, or she died before the databases were assembled.
Also looked for surname "Neil" and surname "Riano". also looked for exact dob in California. Nothing looked good.
I remember Jane's passport having the year as 1918 instead of 1919 if that helps any bit
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I'll give it another go with 1918. was the month and day the same?
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Reply #22 has various names for Jane:
U.S., Social Security Applications and Claims Index - Jane Helen Riano - Jane Ria Montgomery - Jane Montgomery - Jane Forsman - Jane Neil - 8 July 1918 - passed away 9 November 2003 -
>>>>>>>>>
Is any of this true? I thought Robert died in New York.
"[Irene] Riano was a member of the Four Rianos, long-time vaudeville headliner. Her father, Joseph Rice, was a theatre owner in Philadelphia and her husband Robert Riano was a stage performer who died on stage in San Francisco. Riano played on the stage with Maurice Barrymore and Edwin Booth and created quite an uproar when she performed the splits on stage - the first for an American girl."
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/181404166/irene-riano
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Reply #22 has various names for Jane:
U.S., Social Security Applications and Claims Index - Jane Helen Riano - Jane Ria Montgomery - Jane Montgomery - Jane Forsman - Jane Neil - 8 July 1918 - passed away 9 November 2003 -
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/181404166/irene-riano
Thank you, I didn't know we had accounted for her.
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I'll give it another go with 1918. was the month and day the same?
Same month and day
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From the NY Dramatic Mirror, April 23, 1904, page 18, a picture of all four Rianos. Attached.
This link looks too long to work, but here it is
http://fultonhistory.com/highlighter/highlight-for-xml?altUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fultonhistory.com%2FNewspaper%252010%2FNew%2520York%2520NY%2520Dramatic%2520Mirror%2FNew%2520York%2520NY%2520Dramatic%2520Mirror%25201903%2520Jul-May%25201904%2520Grayscale%2FNew%2520York%2520NY%2520Dramatic%2520Mirror%25201903%2520Jul-May%25201904%2520Grayscale%2520-%25201221.pdf%23xml%3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.fultonhistory.com%2FdtSearch%2Fdtisapi6.dll%3Fcmd%3Dgetpdfhits%26u%3Dffffffff957e1c84%26DocId%3D1693302%26Index%3DZ%253a%255cIndex%2520I%252dE%252dV%26HitCount%3D10%26hits%3D806%2B807%2B9da%2B9db%2Bf3d%2Bf3e%2Bf40%2Bf41%2Bfb3%2Bfb4%2B%26SearchForm%3D%252fFulton%255fform%252ehtml%26.pdf&uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fultonhistory.com%2FNewspaper%252010%2FNew%2520York%2520NY%2520Dramatic%2520Mirror%2FNew%2520York%2520NY%2520Dramatic%2520Mirror%25201903%2520Jul-May%25201904%2520Grayscale%2FNew%2520York%2520NY%2520Dramatic%2520Mirror%25201903%2520Jul-May%25201904%2520Grayscale%2520-%25201221.pdf&xml=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fultonhistory.com%2FdtSearch%2Fdtisapi6.dll%3Fcmd%3Dgetpdfhits%26u%3Dffffffff957e1c84%26DocId%3D1693302%26Index%3DZ%253a%255cIndex%2520I%252dE%252dV%26HitCount%3D10%26hits%3D806%2B807%2B9da%2B9db%2Bf3d%2Bf3e%2Bf40%2Bf41%2Bfb3%2Bfb4%2B%26SearchForm%3D%252fFulton%255fform%252ehtml%26.pdf&openFirstHlPage=false
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I shrank it. Let's see if it works.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01n9m/
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I shrank it. Let's see if it works.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01n9l/
That works, thank you! Excellent find! Just wish we could tell which one was which!
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Another photo of Irene
http://speccoll.library.arizona.edu/collections/vaudeville/items/irene-riano-at-keith-and-proctors-125th-st/
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Out of curiosity, is there anything pertaining to the other Dobbins sibling?
From an earlier post:
Here's the family in 1870
1870 Census, Bethel, Sullivan County, NY
James 36, a gardener, male citizen of US, no Real Estate, has $100 personal estate, born in Ireland
Mary 32, born in Ireland
John 11, born in New York
Margaret 8, born in New York
Michael 3, born in New York (this is the direct line supposedly. curious about that)
I know some people found info on Frank and how he lost an eye and worked on a railroad. Not sure if as interesting since Robert and William ran away and formed the Rianos.
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I think I found the Australian who was one of the Four Rianos:
The Billboard, November 13, 1915, page 17
"Jack and Louise Kell have just closed their season of fairs ... Jack Kell is a member of the original Four Rianos, and still puts on his monkey impersonation." [no location given]
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01n9n/
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Indiana Marriages
St Joseph Indiana, 22 January 1909
John W Kell, born 29 March 1878, in England, son of William F Kell and Sarah Watson. occupation: actor, residence: South Bend, Indiana. parents' residence: Sidney, Australia
Louise Augusta Whilmine Buetow, born August 26, 1882, Milwaukee, Wisconsin, residence: South Bend, Indiana. occupation: manicuring. father: Albert Buetow, born in Berlin, Germany, living in Milwaukee. mother: Marie Kollar, born in Berlin, living in Milwaukee.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KZC5-8LJ
They are also in Cook County (Illinois) Marriages, with a marriage date of 14 November 1912.
no image at familysearch.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N7CP-W52
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SS Ventura, May 13, 1902, arriving San Francisco, from Sidney, Australia
William H Riano, 27, professional, born in US, last residence: US
five lines down:
John W Kell, 23, professional born in England, last residence: England, headed to San Francisco
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QKMQ-SP49
edited to add attachment
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Out of curiosity, is there anything pertaining to the other Dobbins sibling?
From an earlier post:
Here's the family in 1870
1870 Census, Bethel, Sullivan County, NY
James 36, a gardener, male citizen of US, no Real Estate, has $100 personal estate, born in Ireland
Mary 32, born in Ireland
John 11, born in New York
Margaret 8, born in New York
Michael 3, born in New York (this is the direct line supposedly. curious about that)
What do you have on them already? (to save time)
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"I think I found the Australian who was one of the Four Rianos"
Good Work!
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There were at least ten Dobbins children: John, Thomas, Margaret, Robert, Michael, James, William, Mary, Delia and Francis.
If you haven't done so already, sign up at FamilySearch. You have to register but it's free and it's the best place to look at American records - censuses and lots more. Then, start digging.
https://www.familysearch.org/register/custom/1
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Out of curiosity, is there anything pertaining to the other Dobbins sibling?
From an earlier post:
Here's the family in 1870
1870 Census, Bethel, Sullivan County, NY
James 36, a gardener, male citizen of US, no Real Estate, has $100 personal estate, born in Ireland
Mary 32, born in Ireland
John 11, born in New York
Margaret 8, born in New York
Michael 3, born in New York (this is the direct line supposedly. curious about that)
What do you have on them already? (to save time)
Oh sorry! Sure, heres what I have:
James L. Dobbins
1830 • County Cork, Ireland
12 OCT 1898 • Manhattan, New York, USA
Mary A. Cryan
18 JUL 1837 • Ballycullane, Tintern, Wexford, Ireland
6 SEP 1914 • Fulton, New York
Thomas Dobbins
4 APR 1862 • Claverack, New York
New Haven, Connecticut, USA
he married:
Florence Louisa Dobbins
JAN 1863 • Canada English
30 MAY 1951 • Middletown, Middlesex, Connecticut, USA
Margaret Dobbins
NOV 1863 • Duchess, County, New York, USA
Death: New York
she married:
Alfred Gants
14 OCTOBER 1857 • New Jersey
13 MARCH 1914 - No location
James Dobbins
MAR 1872 • Sullivan County, NY
18 JUL 1941 • Manhattan, New York, USA
Mary Catherine Dobbins
AUG 1874 • Sullivan County, New York, USA
21 JUNE 1942 • Oswego, New York
Delia M Dobbins
22 NOV 1891 • Auburn, New York, USA
Unknow Death
Finally
Michael George Dobbins
MAR 1869 • Sullivan CO NY (?)
26 DEC 1937 • Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA
(Direct Line)
These are iffy with dates and such, but i know the last one is mostly solid. Hope that helps and thanks in advance!
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There were at least ten Dobbins children: John, Thomas, Margaret, Robert, Michael, James, William, Mary, Delia and Francis.
If you haven't done so already, sign up at FamilySearch. You have to register but it's free and it's the best place to look at American records - censuses and lots more. Then, start digging.
https://www.familysearch.org/register/custom/1
Thank you, I'll see if I can find any addit censuses and such in the meanwhile.
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Here is the baptism register for Mary Cryan. That's the good news. The "bad" news, or rather the hard to explain to the rest of the family news, is she was born out of wedlock:
Ballycullane Parish
Diocese of Ferns | County of Wexford
Born July 18, 1837
baptism July 19, 1837
name: Maria, illegitimi
parents: Patrick Crane and Catherine Furlong
sponsor: Maria Condon/Conden
place: Laughna... could be Laughnajur
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000634009#page/45/mode/1up
Take the inquiry to the Wexford board, I suggest. Take a screenshot of the place name with enough of the rest of the register to compare the handwriting. Someone familiar with the area should recognize it. I didn't find it in a quick look here
https://www.townlands.ie/wexford/
but if it is in the register then it was a place, at least back then, and should be findable. I'll attach my small snip of it. It is the first line, right under "Loca" = "Place".
I thought it was the townland, but there is a Ballycullane Townland, Tintern Civil Parish, besides Ballycullane Catholic Parish. so I don't know. Unless your original research id'ed the baptism already and took the Parish as her birth location.
The other locations in that column are townlands, so see if you can get the name of it. They are findable on maps, and narrow down her birthplace. Then look for Crane and Furlong in the area, etc.
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Here it is
Loughnageer (Loch na gCaor) ,
The spelling got me.
on a map
https://www.townlands.ie/wexford/shelmaliere-west/clongeen/clongeen/loughnageer/
the map zooms out so you can find it in Wexford.
It's in a different civil parish. maybe it's her place of birth, or her mother's townland, etc.
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Here is the baptism register for Mary Cryan. That's the good news. The "bad" news, or rather the hard to explain to the rest of the family news, is she was born out of wedlock:
Ballycullane Parish
Diocese of Ferns | County of Wexford
Born July 18, 1837
baptism July 19, 1837
name: Maria, illegitimi
parents: Patrick Crane and Catherine Furlong
sponsor: Maria Condon/Conden
place: Laughna... could be Laughnajur
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000634009#page/45/mode/1up
Take the inquiry to the Wexford board, I suggest. Take a screenshot of the place name with enough of the rest of the register to compare the handwriting. Someone familiar with the area should recognize it. I didn't find it in a quick look here
https://www.townlands.ie/wexford/
but if it is in the register then it was a place, at least back then, and should be findable. I'll attach my small snip of it. It is the first line, right under "Loca" = "Place".
I thought it was the townland, but there is a Ballycullane Townland, Tintern Civil Parish, besides Ballycullane Catholic Parish. so I don't know. Unless your original research id'ed the baptism already and took the Parish as her birth location.
The other locations in that column are townlands, so see if you can get the name of it. They are findable on maps, and narrow down her birthplace. Then look for Crane and Furlong in the area, etc.
Thank you for the input. That was a rather big "uh-oh" with being born out of wedlock, least I know for that day in age in Catholic Ireland. The parishes were kind of hit or miss with it being one or another since there appeared to be some overlaps, but thank you for narrowing it down at least.
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The townland will give you an exact location, then look in
Tithe Applotment lists, Wexford, (googleable) and Griffiths' Valuation
http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/
for Furlongs and Cranes in the area. Crane is going to be tough to find because of the spelling variations. You might google for Wexford Griffiths Valuation and see if you can find transcripts because the site I gave you is kind of tough on spelling variations.
The Canadian records you want to find is the Drouin Collection, ancestry.com has them. - Catholic BMD. Tough to work with and often in Latin, but you might turn up the marriage and the first couple births in the family.
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The townland will give you an exact location, then look in
Tithe Applotment lists, Wexford, (googleable) and Griffiths' Valuation
http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/
for Furlongs and Cranes in the area. Crane is going to be tough to find because of the spelling variations. You might google for Wexford Griffiths Valuation and see if you can find transcripts because the site I gave you is kind of tough on spelling variations.
The Canadian records you want to find is the Drouin Collection, ancestry.com has them. - Catholic BMD. Tough to work with and often in Latin, but you might turn up the marriage and the first couple births in the family.
Thanks again for the feedback. I personally wasn't able to find anything initially, but I'll keep eliminating options as I go. Appreciate your help as always!
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from Reply #84
James L. Dobbins
1830 • County Cork, Ireland
12 OCT 1898 • Manhattan, New York, USA
Mary A. Cryan
18 JUL 1837 • Ballycullane, Tintern, Wexford, Ireland
6 SEP 1914 • Fulton, New York
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I don't think James' death is correct, and I'm having second thoughts about Mary's birth.
First: there is a link earlier in this thread to an article that said James was living in Rome, NY, and suffering from pneumonia in 1903, when his sons returned home. So he didn't die in NY City in 1898.
As for Mary, the 1870 census has an older Mary Crine in the household who is old enough to be the mother of Mary (Cryan) Dobbins. Until you eliminate that possibility, the 1837 baptism register of a Mary Crane whose mother is Catherine Furlong is not her.
You need to find or send for the death records of both James and Mary. They might name their parents. Narrow down the time frame by finding them on the 1900, 1910 censuses, etc. Failing that, look for obituaries that might mention their parents, county of origin, and survivors.
I have a feeling this family knew where they were from and if the information was asked, it would probably be correct.
If it exists, the death record for Mary Crine would be important also, though she probably died before they asked for much information.
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from Reply #84
James L. Dobbins
1830 • County Cork, Ireland
12 OCT 1898 • Manhattan, New York, USA
Mary A. Cryan
18 JUL 1837 • Ballycullane, Tintern, Wexford, Ireland
6 SEP 1914 • Fulton, New York
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I don't think James' death is correct, and I'm having second thoughts about Mary's birth.
First: there is a link earlier in this thread to an article that said James was living in Rome, NY, and suffering from pneumonia in 1903, when his sons returned home. So he didn't die in NY City in 1898.
As for Mary, the 1870 census has an older Mary Crine in the household who is old enough to be the mother of Mary (Cryan) Dobbins. Until you eliminate that possibility, the 1837 baptism register of a Mary Crane whose mother is Catherine Furlong is not her.
You need to find or send for the death records of both James and Mary. They might name their parents. Narrow down the time frame by finding them on the 1900, 1910 censuses, etc. Failing that, look for obituaries that might mention their parents, county of origin, and survivors.
I have a feeling this family knew where they were from and if the information was asked, it would probably be correct.
If it exists, the death record for Mary Crine would be important also, though she probably died before they asked for much information.
I'm going to go through some of these. I know I may have some locations and dates mixed up with similar sounding or named people on another glance. But I'll see if I can find the means to try and find a copy of the certificates if that's possible. Thanks for pointing those out though. Appreciate it.