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Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: spades on Wednesday 16 January 19 09:08 GMT (UK)
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Hello again,
I have another problem I need help with.
Peter EBERLE was born about 1832 at Stockstettin(?), Prussia. When he attested for the Armed Constabulary in October 1868, He was in Hokitika, a baker by occupation, aged 37 and single. He had previously served in the Wanganui Rangers (1866-67) and apparently arrived in the colony in July 1862 aboard the Johann Christian. His next-of-kin was Louisa EBERLE of Stockstettin, Prussia (perhaps a sister?)
I can’t find a record of Peter’s marriage or death in New Zealand, nor any definite information after 1869 when he was still in the Armed Constabulary. I wonder if he returned to Prussia and died there, perhaps?
Can anyone find any record of him, in any country, after 1869?
And can anyone find a record of the ship Johann Christian?
There was a Mr and Mrs Eberle living in Wellington who have been discounted. I believe that it was they that travelled to Christchurch at one point.
Spades
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Hi Spades.
Could this be him in the 1881 UK census?
1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census
140, Jamaica Road, Bermondsey, St Olave Southwark, London & Surrey, England
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Peter Eberle Head Widower Male 50 1831 Baker Germany
Mary E Jordan Servant Single Female 23 1858 Shopwoman (Baker) Islington, Middlesex, England
George Boyce Servant Single Male 17 1864 Bakers Lad London, Middlesex, England
Cheers Janette
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There is a Peter Eberle ( baker ) in the London and England City Directories in 1860
1861 Census Thornhill Avenue
Peter Eberle age 32 born abt 1829 Preuben Krentznas occupation baker
Louisa Eberlie age 22 born abt 1839 Preuben Tonernesberch wife
Peter Eberlie age 3 born 1858 Islington son
Richard Eberlie age 1 born 1860 ( Philip Richard ) son
Mary Eberlie age 24 Preuben Hochsetten ..niece
George Scherler age 26 servant
Rosie
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Possible marriage for this couple 22 March 1856 Saint James Westminster
Louisa Fuchs
Father Richard Fuchs
Spouse Peter Eberle
Rosie
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Hi Janette and Rosie,
It certainly looks like you've found him.
I'm a bit puzzled by the marriage because he said he was single when he enlisted, but he could have lied. Perhaps Louisa took the children back to Prussia before he came to New Zealand?
Can you see a death for Peter or his wife anywhere? She died prior to 1881 if he was stating the truth in the 1881 Census.
Thanks very much for finding him.
Spades
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Can't seem to find them on the 1871 Census but one of the sons Peter Eberle is with his uncle
Richard Fuchs age 46 b Germany also a baker
Hannah Fuchs age age 55 bakers wife
Richard Fuchs age 16 son
Peter Eberle age 13 nephew
Baptism for John Peter Eberle
23 May 1858
Battle Bridge All Saints Islington
Father Peter ....baker
Mother Louisa
This Peter married 26 December 1876 St Mary Spital Square Tower Hamlets
His occupation Baker father Peter Eberle also baker
Spouse Emily Campbell
Not found deaths so far for parents
Rosie
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Their other son Philip Richard Eberle
US Naturalization Record
Oath date 30 October 1888
Brooklyn New York
Rosie
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Thanks Rosie, very much appreciated. :)
I had not expected to find that he came to NZ from ENG and then returned there.
Spades
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Hi Spades,
I expect you have had a good look at Archives?
Not sure if these entries are all for your Peter......
https://www.archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=22350131
https://www.archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=24407976
https://www.archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=24428134
There are other entries as well.
The last one above is about:
From: Ex 1st Class Sergeant Eberle, London Date: 23 March 1880 Subject: Applies for his parchment certificate
Minniehaha.
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Hi Minniehaha,
No, I very sheepishly have to admit not searching Archway. :-[
That last record you quoted shows that he remained in NZ much, much longer than I expected, and returned to England between April 1877 and March 1880.
And it provides confirmation of the records found by Janette and Rosie!
I'll order those files and see what they say.
Spades
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This looks like his arrival in to the UK
England Alien Arrivals
Peter Eberle occupation baker native of Prussia
Date of arrival 10 November 1851
Rosie
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Hi Minniehaha,
No, I very sheepishly have to admit not searching Archway. :-[
That last record you quoted shows that he remained in NZ much, much longer than I expected, and returned to England between April 1877 and March 1880.
And it provides confirmation of the records found by Janette and Rosie!
I'll order those files and see what they say.
Spades
Just takes another JAFA to sort things out....... ;D :P
Minniehaha.
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Just takes another JAFA to sort things out....... ;D :P
Minniehaha.
Not just good for rolling down the aisles at the cinema :P :P
Cheers Janette
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Just takes another JAFA to sort things out....... ;D :P
Minniehaha.
Not just good for rolling down the aisles at the cinema :P :P
Cheers Janette
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Minniehaha
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Unclaimed mail for the quarter ending December 1863........
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/LT18640112.2.5?query=peter%20eberle&page=3&snippet=true
Minniehaha.
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One of these marriages mentioned in reply #3:
Marriages Dec 1876
________________________________________
CAMPBELL Emily Whitechapel
1c 798
EBERLE Peter Whitechapel
1c 798
Marriages Mar 1856
________________________________________
Blenkin Mary St James
1a 488
Eberle Peter St James
1a 488
Fuchs Louisa S. James
1a 488
Reynolds Francis St James Westminster
1a 488
Minniehaha.
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The 1861 census
1861 England, Wales & Scotland Census
24, Thornhill Place, St Marys Islington, Islington, London & Middlesex, England
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Peter Eberle Head Married Male 32 1829 Baker Employing 2 Men Germany
Louisa Eberle Wife Married Female 22 1839 - -
Peter Eberle Son - Male 3 1858 - Islington, Middlesex, England
Richard Eberle Son - Male 1 1860 - Islington, Middlesex, England
George Schrisler Servant Unmarried Male 26 1835 Bakers Journeyman -
Mary Eberle Niece Unmarried Female 24 1837 - Germany
Cheers Janette
PS the original has Prussia as the birthplace for both Peter and Louisa
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Morning Janette,
That's brilliant, thanks very much.
So he arrived in ENG in 1851, married in 1856, and by 1861 was still happily married, a father, and running a business.
In July 1862 he arrives in NZ aboard the Johann Christian (another vessel I can't trace).
Between 1863 and 1866 he serves in the Wanganui Rangers and in October 1868 is in Hokitika when he attests for the Armed Constabulary. He is eventually promoted to 1st Class Sergeant in the
Armed Constabulary.
At some time between 1877 and 1880 he returns to London and picks up his old life as a baker, but now is widowed (maybe?).
I wonder if the marriage broke up and he came to NZ for the gold, perhaps.
The Louisa EBERLE in Prussia must have been his wife.
I hope to add more information today after visiting Archives NZ and sighting those files.
Spades
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Spades,
would you like the original 1861 census?
Cheers Janette
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Hello spades.
" In July 1862 he arrives in NZ aboard the Johann Christian (another vessel I can't trace). "
No likely starters that I can see in Lloyd's shipping register, to then hit the UK press with searches.
Closest; Joachim Christian 334 Tons Hamburg. Fal / Baltic run 1862 & 1863
John Chism 798 Tons Liverpool / India run again 1862 & 1863.
Though the list can only be used as a guide. Previous comaprisons between ship log and diary notations show that print lag was considerable, and not very reliable. Don't know of any other insurer's listings, especially in English.
Alan.
PS. The ship John Chism made a voyage to Calcutta in early 1861 and again sailed from Liverpool for Calcutta in May 1862. UK newspapers.
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In 1871 Louisa is working as a servant for
Edward Silver head - Male 70 1801 - Surrey, England
Louisa Eberle Servant - Female 32 1839 - Germany
Sheen Villas, Richmond, Richmond upon Thames, Surrey, England
Cheers Janette
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Hmmmm
Births Sep 1862
EBERLE Louisa Christina Elizabeth St Giles 1b 404
FindMyPast has mother's maiden name as Fuchs
Cheers Janette
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One of these marriages mentioned in reply #3:
Marriages Dec 1876
________________________________________
CAMPBELL Emily Whitechapel
1c 798
EBERLE Peter Whitechapel
1c 798
Minniehaha.
This marriage may be the son,Peter,
Cheers Janette
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Hmmmm
Births Sep 1862
EBERLE Louisa Christina Elizabeth St Giles 1b 404
FindMyPast has mother's maiden name as Fuchs
Cheers Janette
This looks like the marriage for this Louisa Christina Elizabeth Eberle that you found
Louisa Christina Elizabeth Eberle age 20 spinster father Peter Eberle occupation baker
Frank Swann/Swain age 27 widower occupation bricklayer father George Swain ( deceased )
Witnesses Harry Swain and Louisa Eberla signature hard to make out possibly her mother
Marriage date 8 April 1883 Richmond St John Surrey England
This couple immigrated to Canada
www.findagrave.com
Death for Louisa E Swann birth place England
Died 1940
Cemetery Grananque Canada
Death Record Louisa Christina Elizabeth Swann
Female Nationality Canadian Racial Origin German
Date of Birth 27 July 1862 England
Age 77 years 8 months
Died 2/3/1940
Gananoque Leeds Ontario
Father Peter Eberle
Mothers name unknown ( to informant )
Informant her son Charles Swann
Rosie
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Something a bit strange here
www.gro.gov.uk
Birth for a Caroline Eberle mothers maiden name Fuchs
Registration District Strand
Jan -Mar 1866
Baptism for Caroline Eberle St Mary Magdelene Surrey England
Born 4 January 1866
Privately Baptised 22 July 1866 address Paved Court
Father Peter Eberle his occupation labourer
Mother Louisa Eberle
Caroline died July -Sep 1866
So was your Peter in N Z at the time ???
Rosie
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Something a bit strange here
So was your Peter in N Z at the time ???
Rosie
That was what my Hmmmmmm was all about
Cheers Janette
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Sorry, been busy.
Yes, he was, and I was going Hmmmm as well. In 1866 he was in or near Wanganui.
I thought the 1862 birth was reasonable, at least.
Hmmmmm!
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And thanks, Rosie, for the nugget in this marriage:
Louisa Christina Elizabeth Eberle age 20 spinster father Peter Eberle occupation baker
Frank Swann/Swain age 27 widower occupation bricklayer father George Swain ( deceased )
Witnesses Harry Swain and Louisa Eberla signature hard to make out possibly her mother
Marriage date 8 April 1883 Richmond St John Surrey England
So if this was her mother Louisa, it shows that she was still alive and living in England in 1883. I had wondered if had died.
So why wasn't she and Peter together, and why did he describe himself as a widower in the 1881 Census?
There was a valid reason Peter EBERLE might have stated in the 1869 Armed Constabulary Roll that he was single: unmarried men were preferred. And his statement that his next-of-kin Louisa Eberle was in Stockstettin, Prussia, might indicate that she was visiting there in 1868 or 1869, perhaps.
It appears that the relationship broke up. If this occured as early as 1861/62 it might be the motive for Peter to seek his fortune in New Zealand, in whatever form.
He was certainly a valued member of the Armed Constabulary Force as a 2nd Class Sergeant, as this letter from his Supervisor shows:
Armed Constabulary
Te Onepoto Station
3rd November 1873
Sir,
I have the honor to bring under your notice the Non Commissioned officer named in the margin, with a hope that you will recommend him to the Commissioner for promotion.
[Margin notation: No. 54 - 2/c Sergeant Peter EBERLE]
The Sergeant has been five years in the force with a clean defaulters sheet, four years of which he has been a 2/c Sergeant.
The Sergeant is in every degree deserving of promotion, and I have no hesitation in saying, should he not elect to reengage under the three years’ service system that he would be difficult to replace.
I may add that he has proved himself to be capable of carrying out the duties of a responsible situation, he having had charge of Te Marumaru Station for three months.
I have the honor to be
Sir
Your most obedient Servant
Charles Fervis
Sub. Inspr A.C.F.
In charg Station
Spades
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If this is the same person have not been able to find a record of him returning to the UK on the 1878 incoming records ???..Did find a record of the Baptism for Louisa Christina Elizabeth Eberle
Gives her birth date as 27/7/1862
Baptism date 2/11/1862
Address 45 King Street St Giles in the fields Holburn England
Father John Eberle occupation baker
Mother Louisa
Not been able to find your Peter on the 1871 census or a death ???..and no death for the wife also
There is a Peter Eberle in the electoral records from 1881 -1883 address Jamaica Street Bermondsey ...
So another Hmmmmm
Rosie
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Hi again.
Still hog tied at home and bored so doing a lot of online reading. As I don't subscribe to the genealogy sites, I'm wondering if anyone with a FAMILY SEARCH subscription has checked out the name in the Pomerania Church records 1544 - 1945.
https://www.familysearch.org/search/collection/1874205
At Stettin (Szcecin) in the early 1850 there was major land reforms and industrial factories through out Europe were drawing families to the big cities. Grain wise there was either too much or not enough depending on the seasons and world trade. Traditionally cereals where shipped out from Stettin to the UK etc. A young baker following the wheat ?? May be even taking his 'girl' with him. In the same period children as young as 10 to 12 were left for months on end to herd family animals.
Adventure and the prospect of a better life ahead.
Alan.
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Morning Alan,
Thanks for that very useful background information.
Morning Rosie,
Thanks for the baptism information. Peter EBERLE was still in New Zealand in 1871, so he won't appear in the UK Census, but that will be him 1881-83 in Jamaica Street!
I have created a file with a timeline of his life events. I'll try to attach it here.
Spades
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Afternoon.
Wishing to learn more about the two probable address locations in reply #2, I approached Berlin-Bob via a PM, for suggestions re looking up 1860’s local area names [parishes etc] when two spellings [German or Polish] could be involved, and names changed over time, when a village grows to become a busy trading and industrial city.
His reply in part states, “There is a German website GOV, Geschichtle OrtsVerzeichnis (Historical Place names Catalog) where you can find a lot of information on old place names http://gov.genealogy.net/search/name.”.....................
Plus, “Allowing for english-hearing ears and foreign pronunciations,
Preuszen Krentzas might be "Szczecin-Kraśnica" http://gov.genealogy.net/item/show/KRAECKJO73HM.
And Preuszen Tonernesberch might be "Stettin-Torney, Szczecin-Turzyn" http://gov.genealogy.net/item/show/TORNEYJO73GK “"
[Transferred and republished on the forum, with Berlin-Bob’s permission.]
This information, plus further research notes, and a MYHERITAGE possible contact for Peter EBERLE’s handy to Szczecin, have been conveyed to ‘spades’ by private correspondence, for him to pursue at his leisure.
Alan.
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And thanks again, very much, Alan. ;D 8)
I'll see where it goes.
Thanks to everyone who contributed. I'll post any further findings, but I think my original questions have been addressed.
Spades
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He certainly is a mystery and Louisa ...not seeing anything at all ...
On the 1881 Census he says he is a widower ? ..
If that is Louisa as a witness on the daughters marriage can't find her on the 1881 Census
Also the daughter Louisa ..tried all different variations of names
Can't find Richard in 1881 ??? most probably in USA
If you want me to send you any of these records PM me
Rosie