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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: Ouse who on Wednesday 16 January 19 19:33 GMT (UK)
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I am awaiting a reply from the busy FoTHC volunteers regarding visiting the cemetery shortly. In anticipation of that, I wonder if someone here could answer a question please.
B333 in the remarks column of the cemetery Daybook of Burials presumably is the plot number of the deceased, so could anyone tell me what it says about the type of grave and where it might be on the published grid?
The same letter and number appears after several other entries on the same page. The number of the deceased is 1630.
O.
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I can't begin to match the expertise of FoTHC, but I do have a few hundred photos I took a while back and if you provide the names here or by PM, I will check through my index.
As you may be aware, what an FoTHC page on the web euphemistically describes as "an abundance of vegetation" may better be phrased as "hopelessly overgrown" and it's rarely possible to see graves other than those beside the paths, which will have been for those who could afford to pay. So while it's an interesting place to visit, be prepared for disappointment in your search for specific graves.
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Hello Chris,
Thank you for your interest. The entries I am referring to are for my wife's gt gt gt grandmother Rhoda Bowler Oliver, one of the victims of the Kentish Town Railway accident 2 September 1861. Charles Standing another victim precedes her in the index register. I haven't checked but suspect that other victims are buried nearby in the cemetery.
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=552780.0
Kind regards, O.
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Sorry, no luck with any of the dead on your other post.
The only Oliver grave I have, just in case they're yours, is for:-
Joseph Oliver d 27-May-1879 a 60 (husband) d reg Mile End
Ann Oliver d 9-Jul-1883 a 57 (wife) d reg Mile End
Alice Oliver d 19-Mar-1893 a 33 (daughter) d reg Kensington (says age 32)
Looking through my photos, I'm afraid I didn't find any clues which would help your search. There are a few 1860s graves scattered around, but I didn't come across any solid area at that era. I came across one area off the path strewn with the miniature gravestones typical of common graves, but from the WW1 area onwards. As is frequently the case when these stones have been disturbed by growth of vegetation, they were scattered around randomly. If, as seems likely, the accident victims are in common graves, I advise taking a list with every name in every possible grave, as only a few people in such graves got headstones.
Very few gravestones I saw had numbers, and an FoTHC page says graves are rarely consecutively placed, so I don't think the number will help unless FoTHC have a plot map. Though I have seen other people mention prefix letters, the numbers I found on stones didn't have them; the cemetery plan on the gate divides the cemetery into a grid of numbered squares.
Sorry I can't be of any more help.
Chris
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Hello Chris,
Thank you for a very informative and helpful response.
I will indeed take the details of the other victims of the rail accident with me when I visit the cemetery.
Kind regards, O.
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Hi ,
I'm new here so excuse me if I do anything wrong :)
I am planning a visit to the Tower Hamlets cemetery park to pay my respects to ancestors and clean them up if need be .
I have found information on one as she has a private grave where as the others I don't think had .
My question is , would you have any information on this one at all as I did see most of the memorials can not be read so trying to do homework .
Lady I want to find is " Emma Ann Murrell " , buried 27th November 1924
Age 47
P1490
Thank you for any help at all , Nicky
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Sorry, Nicky, no Murrells in my photos and no clue as to how section P relates to the square numbers I mentioned above. I recommend you contact FoTHC for advice before you go. The only consolation I can offer is that the vegetation should have died down a bit by this time of year!
Good luck, Chris
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Thanks for looking Chris !
I thought maybe P for plot ... I’m a novice lol
I’ve emailed THCP and will look for my ancestors not in a private plot now - Elizabeth Holmes - she has a very sad but interesting story that I will share with the park if I can find her .
Appreciate your time 😊
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Eleven months on from my OP I am still getting an automatic reply to my FOTHCP enquiry. Clearly the volunteers are still dealing with enquiries made before January 2019.
Thank you for your enquiry. Enquiries are as a rule answered in the order we receive them and due to the release of the Cemetery Registers on Ancestry our number of enquiries have substantially increased. Depending on the complexity of the enquiry and the availability of volunteers, it may take some time to respond we will endeavour to answer them as soon as we can.
D K
Trustee, Volunteer and Heritage Lead
Friends of Tower Hamlets Cemetery Park
Kind regards, O.
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Oh that’s disappointing... looks like we’re in for a really long wait then .
Are there other ways to find out where people’s memorials are ?
Be like a needle in a haystack searching the park I imagine .. ..
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Hi ,
I'm new here so excuse me if I do anything wrong :)
I am planning a visit to the Tower Hamlets cemetery park to pay my respects to ancestors and clean them up if need be .
I have found information on one as she has a private grave where as the others I don't think had .
My question is , would you have any information on this one at all as I did see most of the memorials can not be read so trying to do homework .
Lady I want to find is " Emma Ann Murrell " , buried 27th November 1924
Age 47
P1490
Thank you for any help at all , Nicky
There is another with that same number P1490 buried the same day - Mary Ann Hymas.
On the 12th December there is Henry William Jack & Mary Ann Eagle.
15th December -Marion Bradley
19th December - Lucinda May Parsons
There are several more after that and on the page before Emma's.
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Thank you that’s interesting.
Do you think P1490 is an area rather than a plot ?
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With all those presumably unrelated people, this looks like a "common" or "public" grave for people who couldn't afford a "private" plot reserved for a family. I've known 50 or more people in such graves. If so, the bad news is that it's likely to be off the path in the undergrowth and they may not have been able to afford a headstone either. If there is a headstone, it's probably a miniature one, often seen placed on graves one after the other like dominoes, as with this one (https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/204795475) which i found when I plunged into said undergrowth to avoid a downpour.
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Strange thing is Emma Ann Murrell’s details are on the register of private burials ?
I tried to post the picture of the page but the file is too big 😩
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You should not post the image anyway because of copyright. If you are referring to the image on Ancestry the top of the page above the image it has
London, England, City of London and Tower Hamlets Cemetery 1841 - 1966 for Emma Ann Murrell
Register of Private graves 1868 - 1883 so total nonsense as the page shows burials for 1924.
Going back to page 4 of that dataset it states in handwriting
'City of London & Tower Hamlets Cemetery Company.'
Register of burials with grave numbers.
December 1918 - May 1946 - July 1952
In Unconsecrated ground
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March 1951 - April 1952
In Consecrated Ground
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I'm beginning to wonder whether these "P" numbers are really plot numbers or just references to some other index. My Ancestry sub doesn't cover Tower Hamlet registers. Could someone look up some of:-
William Mitchell Smith d 17-Jun-1882 a 46, whose footstone says No 8290.
Charlotte Hibbard d 13-Feb-1924 a 69, No 9014 on footstone
Charlotte Maria Hibbard d 1-Sep 1884 a 3y 9m,,grave 152.F according to her mother's headstone.
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Charlotte Hibbard d 13-Feb-1924 a 69, No 9014 on footstone
This entry appears on the same dataset we are looking at. In the same column that shows the P entries on the other records Charlottes has just 9014.
I will come back back to this later as I am out this morning
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The dataset that Emma Ann Murrell and Charlotte Hibbards burial are in only starts at 21 December 1918. That would tie in with the handwritten note at the beginning which mentions burial in unconsecrated ground from Dec 1918. The first column in which the P references are does not have a heading. The numbers in this column are either just numbers or they have a F or a P before them.
Charlotte Maria Hibbard's burial appears in the burial Day Book and the burials register, the day book confirms the F152 reference.
William Mitchell Smith just appears in the burial register.
ADDED He appears in the Day Book as William Mitcheson Smith -Sq 74. 8290
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Hmm, so it looks as if my latest theory bites the dust and the untitled column really does contain plot numbers. Which leaves us back with the problem of finding a map showing these lettered sections and the question why so many people are buried with Emma. Looking at Find a Grave's request list, I see letters Q, R, S & T also, plus a few with squares and others with just numbers.
The next step, which I've had to resort to in similar situations elsewhere, would be to look up all my 2-300 photographs and see if there are any Ps, but I won't ask for volunteers!
The Day Book is correct over the middle name and last digit of the plot number for William Smith. I somehow failed to check my transcription of the photos. Sorry.
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Sorry that it did not answer the problem Chris.
Rosie