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Some Special Interests => Occupation Interests => Topic started by: Geordie daughter on Saturday 19 January 19 13:42 GMT (UK)
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Nothing I have googled so far gives any specifics about what sort of tasks a solicitor's clerk would be required to do, apart (obviously) from processing paperwork on a daily basis. I am curious to find out a little more, as an ancestor of mine on my father's side was one. What has sparked my curiosity about his job was finding two separate articles in Lloyd's Lists, yesterday, which listed him as subscriber (in the earlier article) and signatory (in the later one) to two new companies which were being registered, and I'm not sure if this was in his legal capacity or as a private individual, as his home address was supplied. Both companies involved shipping and brokering in some form or another, so perhaps the firm he worked for specialised in these areas? I'd be grateful if anyone with knowledge of the legal system could help me out with this one.
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In those days he would have done what he was told! This may have included having his name on start-up companies until the rightful people were available, as you thought.
A managing clerk would probably be responsible to the firm’s partners for all the work behind the scenes.
A
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It's my understanding that they can do everything that a solicitor (or a barrister) would do - EXCEPT they can't advise a client. I suppose in very early years they would be kept very busy writing legal jargon documents and then working their way up to signing as witnesses to wills, etc.
Leeds university has a webpage for jobs undertaken by modern day paralegal employment:
https://www.prospects.ac.uk/job-profiles/paralegal
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Thanks to both of you for your answers, and for the link to that website, Rena. This particular ancestor is something of a mystery. As no mention has ever been made of who he worked for, in any of the census returns, I can't track down any employment records that might exist. The 1911 described him as a "shorthand writer" so I would guess that perhaps by then he was secretary to more senior members of the firm, and/or took notes during meetings. He never progressed beyond being a clerk as far as I can tell (death cert. says "formerly a solicitor's clerk"), and lived for most of his life with his parents. The only thing of note is that he got married, at the grand old age of 62 (after his parents' deaths), to his spinster cousin who had been part of the household since her early twenties.
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I've always understood a legal shorthand writer was the person who sat in court in front of the judge tapping on a little machine.
My friend's daughter's ambition was to be a solicitor and gained a place at university to study law. Eventually she was required to find a position as a junior legal clerk with a solicitor. This position meant her attending court every day to take notes on the cases her employer was working on. I never thought to ask if she used a small machine or used longhand abbreviations, or Pitman's shorthand. In other words she was a "a court reporter".(she did eventually become a solicitor employed by a police force).
I once looked on the historical directories website in an effort to discover which solicitor had looked after my grandfather's affairs but as he lived in a very large town the list was endless. As a junior in the 1950s I know their practices are usually in an area in the centre of town. If your ncestor resided in a small place you might have more luck than me.
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That option had never occurred to me, Rena. I do so wish I knew something about his employers. As I mentioned when I first posted this thread, Henry's name was on two documents relating to new companies that had been registered, and on the basis of them, I've speculated that perhaps he was working for a solicitor's firm specialising in marine insurance and related branches, or something similar. Interestingly, Henry's younger brother Alfred married into a family who built up a very successful wholesale grocery business which later involved importing and exporting goods, and several of the wife's relatives were solicitors. However, as far as I can tell, the marriage came some time after Henry first started to work as a clerk, so I don't know if there's a link there.
Sadly, Henry and his family lived in various parts of North London over the years, so my odds of narrowing down possible employers, using the directories, is very slim. The family lived fairly close to train stations and large thoroughfares with tramways for most of their lives, as the father and Alfred jointly ran a cork cutting business in Liverpool Road, and later in Holloway Road, so it's entirely likely that Henry travelled into the City every day.
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I wonder if he was listed in the registered clerkship records
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/lawyers/
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Thank you for that link, Rena! The Clerkships in the Court of Common Pleas (1713-1867) list is just too early, but I checked anyway, on the off-chance that something useful might pop up. The Articles of Clerkship (1756-1874) list might contain what I need, as Henry was a solicitor's clerk by 1871 (aged 16), but is on Ancestry, unfortunately, and I subscribe to the "opposition."
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I think I might have cracked it! I tried Googling the companies mentioned in the Lloyd's List articles to see if they'd offer any clues, and discovered that "Parker & Co., St. Michael's Rectory, Cornhill, E.C" is a solicitor's office. More fully they are "Parker, Garrett & Co," and S. Garrett of that address pops up next to Henry in the notice declaring the registration of the "Delagoa Bay Agency Company (Ltd.)"
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I think I might have cracked it! I tried Googling the companies mentioned in the Lloyd's List articles to see if they'd offer any clues, and discovered that "Parker & Co., St. Michael's Rectory, Cornhill, E.C" is a solicitor's office. More fully they are "Parker, Garrett & Co," and S. Garrett of that address pops up next to Henry in the notice declaring the registration of the "Delagoa Bay Agency Company (Ltd.)"
Whoopeee !
My next suggestion would have been to look for his name in the online London Gazette because I noticed in the Edinburgh Gazette quite recently, when I found an ancestor had sold his interest in a company, that clerk's and solicitor's names were mentioned.
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It turned out to be double-whoopee! S. Garrett was actually Samuel Garrett, the brother of Elizabeth Garrett Anderson, Britain's first qualified woman doctor, and his firm arranged her marriage settlement. Her husband James George Skelton Anderson co-owned the Orient Steamship Company, and her father, Newson Garrett, also had shipping interests, so no wonder the firm took on a lot of clients in the shipping/export-import trade. Samuel was very keen for women to be admitted to the legal profession as solicitors, etc, and made a speech, as President of the Law Society, to that effect in 1918 (Go, Samuel! ;D). A later partner, Henry Martin Holman, corresponded regularly with William More Adey, one of the inner circle of friends who managed Oscar Wilde's business (and presumably, legal) affairs while the latter was in prison. Oh, and the original head of the firm was Sir Henry Watson Parker (knighted 1887, according to his obit.), who was vice-president of the Incorporated Law Society in 1885-6, and president in 1886-87. As you can imagine, I'm just a little bit gobsmacked!
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...AND the office was right on the doorstep of the Turk's Head/Pasqua Rosee's Head, the first ever coffee house to make its appearance in London in 1652. My late dad was a fan of Samuel Pepys and would have been fascinated to know that Henry spent most of his working life near a place Pepys had frequented around two centuries earlier. By the time Henry was employed at Parker, Garrett and Co., (c.1871) it had become a pub, though, and the building it occupied was pretty new, having been erected around 1869 to replace a much older one.
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Wow !
It's amazing that one little hint can unlock such a flood of information.
Onward and upwrd eh?
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Absolutely!
A quick rummage through the Newspaper Archives courtesy of FindMyPast, last night, revealed that the company seems to have specialised in Maritime and Company Law (in the early days, at least), although there are also plenty of more general dealings with libel cases, property, deceased estates and so on. They acted for the "Globe" newspaper after it printed an article reporting (wrongly) that Lord Kitchener had resigned, in 1915, and got badly rapped over the knuckles by the Government for it. The firm's letters and the Government's response to them, were printed in other papers afterwards.
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The only thing of note is that he got married, at the grand old age of 62 (after his parents' deaths), to his spinster cousin who had been part of the household since her early twenties.
Possibly a marriage of convenience to preserve the proprieties. An unmarried woman living with a man unchaperoned was frowned upon in many circles
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The only thing of note is that he got married, at the grand old age of 62 (after his parents' deaths), to his spinster cousin who had been part of the household since her early twenties.
Possibly a marriage of convenience to preserve the proprieties. An unmarried woman living with a man unchaperoned was frowned upon in many circles
Not necessarily - perhaps he had to care for his parents and was only free to marry after their passing.
I have an instance of a couple - OK, rather younger - who married within a month of his widowed mother's death. They obviously knew each other well, as they had 4 children together prior to marriage ;) They then went on to have another two, and all are named in his will as "natural or legitimate".
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If there was an unmarried woman (or indeed, any woman!) in the household, it is more likely she was doing any necessary caring for the elderly parents, rather than the son who was out at work all day
But maybe the parents objected to the marriage, so the couple felt unable to marry earlier even tho both were lang past the age of needing parental consent
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Those thoughts went through my mind as well, though with regard to the bit about preserving propriety, there was a spinster sister, Annie, living at home as well, and all three of them moved to, and set up house in, Ipswich together afterwards. Maybe they were trying to avoid any suggestion of there being a menage a trois!! :o If I had to choose, I think the parental objection theory would win over preserving the proprieties by a narrow margin, on the grounds that Nellie was so closely related. Oh, to have been a fly on the wall! As for the caring for elderly parents bit, it looks very much as if it was Nellie acting as a sort of housekeeper to the couple in their twilight years, as Annie worked in the family's cork cutting business alongside another brother, and Henry was still in employment until at least 1911.
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Ahh yes, if there was another person in the household, parental objection is more likely as the sister would be a suitable chaperone
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I do think that, if parental objection was the case and that they were truly in love and not just going through the motions to preserve respectability, it is rather sad that they had to wait so long to tie the knot. If I remember correctly, I think they only had about ten years together as a married couple before Henry died. Cause of death was epilepsy and heart failure, so perhaps Henry's health had something to do with it, also.
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I've done some more digging on the subject of solicitors' clerks this morning, and it's occurred to me that even though neither of them required parental consent to marry after they'd reached their majority, their hands would have been tied by the fact that they would have struggled to set up home as a couple on their own. His salary as a solicitor's clerk would have been pretty low, though it might have improved a little in later years, and Nellie had no money of her own either (and even if she did, would probably have been cut off without a penny by her family).
Rena, I've just discovered that Dickens, who was originally a solicitor's clerk himself, taught himself shorthand and became a court reporter in the Lord Chancellor's Court, so you may be right about Henry. www.victorianlondon.org/professions/clerks.htm provided some rather tongue-in-cheek, but useful, descriptions of the different kinds of clerks. It revealed that Henry would have had working hours of 9 a.m. to 8 p.m., and would probably have been a copying clerk rather than an articled clerk. I've also found that the LMA holds various records created by Parker, Garrett and Company; they date from 1927 onwards but it might be worth my while emailing them tomorrow to ask if they have any staff lists from earlier years. The newspaper report covering Sir Henry's funeral, in 1894, states that all twenty of the staff attended it, which gives me an idea of the size of the firm at that point in time.
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History of Parker, Garrett & Co Solicitors.
Hi all - bit late joining the thread - but here is my interest - Sir Henry Watson Parker was my great, great grandfather. His sons, Henry Bernard Joseph Parker and Wilfred Watson Parker were also solicitors in the firm. Wilfred was my Great Grandfather.
According to my uncle Wilfred misappropriated client funds - I have no idea how to verify this - Any thoughts?
This is the summary history of the firm.
In 1858, Henry Watson Parker became a partner in the solicitors' firm of Ellis and Clarke, of 2 Cowper's Court, Cornhill. Until 1868 the firm was then known as Ellis, Parker and Clarke, and in 1864 it moved its premises to the rectory house of St Michael Cornhill.
After 1869 the firm traded under the following styles:
1869-74: Parker and Clarke;
1875: Parker, Watney and Clarke;
1876-9: Parker and Clarke;
1880-1: Parker and Co;
1883-96: Parker, Garrett and Parker;
1897-1901: Parker, Garrett and Holman;
1902-9: Parker, Garrett, Holman and Howden;
1911 to c 1983: Parker, Garrett and Company.
In 1958, Parker, Garrett and Company took over the solicitors' firm of Rivington and Son, of 1 Fenchurch Buildings, 107 Fenchurch Street.
In circa 1983, Parker, Garrett and Company amalgamated with another firm, Taylor and Humbert, of 1 Raymond Buildings, Gray's Inn, to form Taylor, Garrett and Company. St Michael's rectory house was briefly retained as a branch office. In 1985, Taylor, Garrett and Company moved to 180 Fleet Street
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History of Parker, Garrett & Co Solicitors.
Hi all - bit late joining the thread - but here is my interest - Sir Henry Watson Parker was my great, great grandfather. His sons, Henry Bernard Joseph Parker and Wilfred Watson Parker were also solicitors in the firm. Wilfred was my Great Grandfather.
According to my uncle Wilfred misappropriated client funds - I have no idea how to verify this - Any thoughts?
After my paternal grandfather's death in 1918 and upon learning how little was bequeathed, my father and his six siblings thought their late father's solicitor had been dipping his hand into the trust fund he'd set up for their mother, but I doubt they did anything about it.
I see from the U.K. Law Society's Research Guide that there's no indication of whether a solicitor has been struck off (see below). Perhaps a local newspaper might have some details.
"A lawyer’s name normally appears in the Law List the year after admission and continues until he or she retires, dies or is struck off (there is no indication which applies). There are separate lists for London solicitors, country solicitors and counsel (barristers). There are often separate lists for overseas lawyers, judges, conveyancers and draftsmen."
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Hi Emma
It might be worth contacting the London Metropolitan Archives (LMA), if you haven't already done so, as they have a huge chunk of the records pertaining to Parker, Garrett & Co. If they can't help you with your query directly, they might be able to point you in the right direction.
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Emma, I've had a look to see what I could find online and in the newspapers but there's not an awful lot about Wilfred. I found two obits for him at https://williamgray101.wordpress.com/tag/lady-ob/ and references to him receiving an MBE in 1919, being a member of the Grand Jury for the Bucks Quarter Sessions in 1924, and proposing candidates for local elections, but that's about it. His wife and daughters got more mentions than him, by the looks of it. (There are a couple of informative articles, complete with photos, on his son Leonard's wedding, if you're interested, though!)
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After my paternal grandfather's death in 1918 and upon learning how little was bequeathed, my father and his six siblings thought their late father's solicitor had been dipping his hand into the trust fund he'd set up for their mother, but I doubt they did anything about it.
My sincere apologies if Wilfred is to blame. My father told me yesterday that he knew his grandfather (Wilfred) had misappropriated money from his wife's family - the Purssells, and that Wlfred's son, my grandfather Leonard, had spent much of his life trying to repay the Purssells. It doesn't take much of a stretch of imagination to believe that Wilfred may have dipped his hand into other client funds. It seems that Wilfred maybe the black sheep in the Parker tree.
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I've had a look to see what I could find online and in the newspapers but there's not an awful lot about Wilfred. I found two obits for him at https://williamgray101.wordpress.com/tag/lady-ob/ and references to him receiving an MBE in 1919, being a member of the Grand Jury for the Bucks Quarter Sessions in 1924, and proposing candidates for local elections, but that's about it. His wife and daughters got more mentions than him, by the looks of it. (There are a couple of informative articles, complete with photos, on his son Leonard's wedding, if you're interested, though!)
I've spent many hours on William Gray's website, it is very informative, though I missed the point of him being a member of the Grand Jury and the photos of my grandfather Leonard's wedding (I presume it was his first wedding as he married 3 times).
His website is focused on the Purssell family as that is his line, and I have been in touch with him - he doesn't have any further information on the Parker branch.
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This wedding of Leonard's was in late 1928, and was to Barbara Helen Stephens. If you'd like the details of the news articles, etc, PM me. Photos are always the icing on the cake for me, as I have none of any family on my dad's side, from before the 1890s.
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After my paternal grandfather's death in 1918 and upon learning how little was bequeathed, my father and his six siblings thought their late father's solicitor had been dipping his hand into the trust fund he'd set up for their mother, but I doubt they did anything about it.
My sincere apologies if Wilfred is to blame. My father told me yesterday that he knew his grandfather (Wilfred) had misappropriated money from his wife's family - the Purssells, and that Wlfred's son, my grandfather Leonard, had spent much of his life trying to repay the Purssells. It doesn't take much of a stretch of imagination to believe that Wilfred may have dipped his hand into other client funds. It seems that Wilfred maybe the black sheep in the Parker tree.
Thank you for your concern Emma, but none of us can be responsible for anyone but ourselves, and besides, there's been a lot of water under the bridge since that then and I doubt anyone could list with accuracy the outcomes of all the global manipulations, machinations, etc., of the financial money market at the start of the 20th century.