RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: heath on Saturday 19 January 19 21:38 GMT (UK)
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I am posting this on behalf of a relative residing in Asia.
looking to track down the marriage location and date (or quarter) for a couple in 1926 that had "Folio Number 1411". The couple were Ida Evelyn White and Ian Philp White. He believes the location was Dunedin District.
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Hi Heath,
Unfortunately, folio number for marriages under the old system were randomly allocated so could not be used to determine the location of the event, unlike births and deaths.
The folio numbers found on the NZ BDM website for all three types of events no longer bear any connection to the old system, as far as i understand. New numbers were assigned to all events as the records were collated to appear online.
I think the best way to find the information would be to a) look for a newspaper report of the marriage or marriage notice b) look for the Intention to Marry Notice c) contact NZ BDM and ask.
I have found the marriage event on the NZ BDM website, and by narrowing the search dates have discovered that they married on 20/01/1926.
Spades
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...and there's also d) contact the Otago branch of the New Zealand Society of Genealogists to see if they have any information e) search ancestry.com or f) LDS.
https://www.genealogy.org.nz/branches--area-contacts_55
http://www.toituosm.com/
Spades
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Ida's marriage to Ian appears to be her second marriage this is the first
1920/7836 Ida Emily Brocklehurst to Kenneth Geoffrey White
Death:1923/854 White Kenneth Geoffrey 24Y
Here is the cemetery record
https://www.dunedin.govt.nz/facilities/cemeteries/cemeteries_search?recordid=38011&type=Burial
Cheers Janette
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Death notice for Kenneth
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/ODT19230303.2.23?query=kenneth%20geoffrey%20white&items_per_page=100&snippet=true
Memorial notice
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/ESD19240301.2.43?query=kenneth%20geoffrey%20white&items_per_page=100&snippet=true
Cheers Janette
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Thank you Spades - Brilliant.
Yes it was her second marriage. Very covenant she married his brother.
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Now we only need the marriage location.
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Here is the marriage notice for Kenneth Geoffrey
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/ESD19201106.2.27?query=Brocklehurst&sort_by=byDA&items_per_page=100&start_date=01-01-1920&end_date=31-12-1920&snippet=true
I imagine Ian may have married in Dunedin also
Cheers Janette
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that's only a guess at this stage.
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that's only a guess at this stage.
True but he was living there all of his life and she was widowed there.
You might need to get the marriage printout to get the information
From 1880 – Marriage Act 1880 (Dated 17 January 1880)
Local number
Bride and Groom
When and where married
Name and surname of the parties
Ages
Rank or profession
Condition of parties
Bachelor or spinster (or as case may be)
If widow or widower date of death of former wife or husband
Birthplace
Residence: Present, Usual
Parents
Father's name and surname
Father's rank or profession
Mothers name and Maiden surname
Signatures
Bride and groom
Witnesses
Officiating minister (or Registrar)
Cheers Janette
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that's only a guess at this stage.
True but he was living there all of his life and she was widowed there.
Electoral Rolls show the couple between 1928/1938 living in Mataura, Southland, then Dunedin in later years.
As Janette mentioned you need the Printout to confirm the location. They could have married elsewhere.
Cheers
KHP
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Outside the brief but in case your relative does not have this information....
Details of the enquiry into Kenneth's accident:
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/ESD19230313.2.29?query=john%20mill%20kaikoura&start_date=01-01-1922&end_date=31-12-1923&snippet=true&title=LCM,LCP,LWM,ME,MIC,MTBM,NOT,OAM,ODT,OSWCC,OW,ST,TT,SOCR,WSTAR,AHCOG,BH,CL,CROMARG,DUNST,ESD
Also widow's claim for compensation:
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/ODT19231212.2.83?query=ida%20emily%20&phrase=2&start_date=01-01-1922&end_date=31-12-1923&snippet=true&title=LCM,LCP,LWM,ME,MIC,MTBM,NOT,OAM,ODT,OSWCC,OW,ST,TT,SOCR,WSTAR,AHCOG,BH,CL,CROMARG,DUNST,ESD
Minniehaha.
Post script: I note that your first post names the lady as Ida Evelyn when in fact her correct name would appear to be, Ida Emily..........
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Thanks for that, she seamed to use both names, unless that is a transcribed error.
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Hello Heath ... some additional info for you.
1925 - Otago - Dunedin North electoral roll
WHITE - Ida Emily - 172 Union Street, Married
On same roll ... and listed directly above ... WHITE - Ian Philip - Victoria Road, Hairdresser
So this is the year before they were married.
KHP earlier mentioned electoral listings for 1928.
Would just like to clarify the 1928 listings - because there are two.
1928 - Otago - Dunedin North
WHITE - Ian Philip - Victoria Road, Ravensbourne - hairdresser
[Can't see a Listing for Ida Emily (Evelyn) on this particular roll ]
1928 - Mataura Supplementary Roll
WHITE - Ian Philp - hairdresser
WHITE - Ida Emily - married ... both residing at 24 Huron Street, Gore.
Given the Mataura listing is on a "supplementary" roll, it is reasonable to assume that the couple had recently moved to that locality.
~ Lu
also see next > >
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Thanks for that, she seamed to use both names, unless that is a transcribed error.
Heath .... my guess is that the name "Evelyn" (and it only appears in the index listing for Ida's second marriage in 1926 to Ian Philip WHITE), is a transcription error. You could contact via email, NZ BDM, and ask them to check whether the name on their record is in fact "Emily".
All electoral roll listings show she was using the name "Ida Emily WHITE" :
~ Lu
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Now we only need the marriage location.
Of course reasons for not being able to supply location info, have already been given. ;)
BUT ... now that we have Ida's 1925 address ... and the fact that her own family - her father (and his 2nd wife) - her married sister, and Ida's husband-to-be, all resided nearby, it seems that Dunedin was the most likely place for the marriage.
~ Lu
Edited to add : ... the 1922 and 1925 e/rolls are only "browse-able" (via ancestry) so you need to know where the person actually lived - otherwise it becomes a very long and sometimes impossible, search. I didn't find Ida in 1922 (only searched the Dunedin North electorate) and there was no listing for her 1st husband either.
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Hi again Heath
A link to the burial of Ida's first husband was given at reply # 3.
https://www.dunedin.govt.nz/facilities/cemeteries/cemeteries_search?recordid=35206&type=Burial
^^ I noticed on Ida's cemetery record though that her age was given as 60 years (bc 1913). ::) Of course she was 74 years (and the NZBDM death index has her date of birth as 19 September 1899). Also the cemetery listing showed her having been a "native of NZ" which was incorrect.
I'm guessing you already have her earlier details ??
* Birth reg'd. at Prestwich, Lancs. - DEC Q. - 1899
* Appears with her family in Lancs. on 1901 and 1911 UK Census
* Arrived with her parents and married sister, into Australia in 1911.
* Her mother died at Christchurch in June 1913 (had resided in NZ for 2 years).
I have a bit more info if you need it.
~ Lu
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thanks Lu yes please any info, is a great help.
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this family has become most interesting. The daughter that is born 1926 Pearl Doreen to Ida has come up as a high match in DNA to my friend. Is there a George Walton in the area at this time?
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Hi Heath,
While visiting Archives NZ today i took the opportunity to look up the Intention to Marry Notice for Ida and Ian WHITE.
They intended to marry at the Registrar's office, Dunedin.
I have a photo of the complete entry which you might like. Please PM me with your email address.
Spades
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will do, hope you get it thanks Spades. any sign of the George Walton
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Image sent.
No mention of George WALTON in the image.
Spades
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George Walton would be on the electrol rolls, if he was around there.
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Married 20/01/1926
Pearl born 9/7/1926
Might have been their own 'hurry along baby' or the brother in law may have married her to help her out.....reasonably often done.
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this family has become most interesting. The daughter that is born 1926 Pearl Doreen to Ida has come up as a high match in DNA to my friend. Is there a George Walton in the area at this time?
Hi Heath
Suddenly the name "George WALTON" has cropped up here. ???
Can you explain please why that is ... rather than letting us guess ?
~ Lu
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this family has become most interesting. The daughter that is born 1926 Pearl Doreen to Ida has come up as a high match in DNA to my friend. Is there a George Walton in the area at this time?
Pearl Doreen appears to be matching up with with other family members, of my friend.-
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this family has become most interesting. The daughter that is born 1926 Pearl Doreen to Ida has come up as a high match in DNA to my friend. Is there a George Walton in the area at this time?
Pearl Doreen appears to be matching up with with other family members, of my friend.-
I might be a bit thick today.
Is George Walton a known relation of your friend? or
Is George Walton a DNA match to your friend?
or both?
If George Walton is a known relation of your friend why are any of his dates and locations so vague ie you have not given us very much to go on.
I ask because there are several/many George Waltons from all over NZ and I feel vaguely snoopy looking at so many when we don't really have anything more to go on just that somehow he existed, in NZ, around the 1920s. Plus a large job.
It would be good if you could give us as much info as you can about this George Walton. Do you have any idea of age in the 1920s or where he mainly lived in 1920s or his occupation in the 1920s?
If your friend was adopted then there are other ways to track down parents through adult adoption unit I think in WINZ?
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If your friend was adopted then there are other ways to track down parents through adult adoption unit I think in WINZ?
https://www.orangatamariki.govt.nz/adoption/finding-birth-family/
Cheers Janette
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George Scott Walton appears in the electrol rolls in 1935 Westland West coast ,and again 1938, and again 1938 Nelson. so he is in the south Island. i am unable to see if he is in the electrol rolls around the 1920's He was born in 1899. At this stage of the game he is unmarred. and moved around.
there is no adoption.
George is a known person to my friend - a relation
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He married in 1931
1931/1815 Eileen Lily Smith George Scott Walton
died
1992/37969 Walton George Scott born 24 September 1899
Cheers Janette
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Death of his wife
1989/52280 Walton Eileen Lily born 3 September 1905
You and your friend may have this information but it may help others to find information
Cheers Janette
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George Scott Walton appears in the electrol rolls in 1935 Westland West coast ,and again 1938, and again 1938 Nelson. so he is in the south Island. i am unable to see if he is in the electrol rolls around the 1920's He was born in 1899. At this stage of the game he is unmarred. and moved around.
there is no adoption.
George is a known person to my friend - a relation
Heath perhaps you could explain a little more about what is needed here
If this man is a relation it seems odd that your friend knows very little.
It may pay to get your friend to join RC and answer these questions him or herself.
Cheers Janette
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George Scott Walton appears in the electrol rolls in 1935 Westland West coast ,and again 1938, and again 1938 Nelson. so he is in the south Island. i am unable to see if he is in the electrol rolls around the 1920's He was born in 1899. At this stage of the game he is unmarred. and moved around.
there is no adoption.
George is a known person to my friend - a relation
Sorry Heath .... I still have no clearer idea of how this man (George) fits into your search.
And I go along with what others here have since said - in respect of you, (or your friend / relative in Asia?), that further explanation needs to be provided in order that we may help.
For the record, you will find that the George Scott WALTON you mention above as being on the 1935 and 1938 Westland (and 1938 Nelson) e/rolls, is in fact shown on those rolls with his wife (Eileen Lily) where they share a common address.
So, why are you suggesting that "at this stage of the game, he is umarrred" [sic] (unmarried, do you mean ? ) .... "and moved around".
And, why say ... "so he is in the south island" ??? Why is that important ???
Do you have the right "George WALTON". ??
~ Lu
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Hi Heath
Not sure if you are aware, but there are two (seemingly well-researched) trees at ancestry.com for George Scott WALTON (b.1899). ???
~ Lu
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"with the high DNA match we suspect that some one else may have fathered one of the White children ( Pearl Doreen) to a White but we are not sure who or when it happened. We have not been able to make contact DNA matching person in the White family to date."