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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: overlandermatt on Sunday 20 January 19 21:18 GMT (UK)
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Hi,
This is a bit different but thought I would try Roots Chat for some help investigating the history of our soon to be new home.
The Dower House (now 81 London Road) was built in the mid-18th century in the South Derbyshire village of Shardlow and I would imagine has connections to the nearby Shardlow Hall. The village is an inland port at the end of the Trent and Mersey Canal and has an interesting industrial heritage (not to mention the 8 pubs). The 1850 tithe map at the Derbyshire records office shows the owner of the house (and a good number of other properties in the village) as James Sutton. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Sutton_(Shardlow)
Other than that, I can find no information of the early years of the house. I couldn't even find the house in the 10 year censuses either but wasn't sure how to search by property address.
According to the previous owner, in the second world war the house was used to house Italian officer POWs, one of whom came back to visit in the 1980s.
It sounds like a house with an interesting history. It's just a matter of how to investigate it...
Any ideas would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance.
Matt
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Hi Matt,
You mention that you imagine the house has connections to the nearby Shardlow Hall. It may be that at some time Dower House was built for the widow (dowager) of the owner of Shardlow Hall. On the death of the estate owner, if the heir to the estate is married, then the widow moves into a house near to the estate.
See here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dower_house
I'm sure other Rootschatters will come along to help.
A fabulous house by the way :)
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Thanks Jool.
It is a great looking house but in need of a lot of work! This history should also be very interesting too. I don't know how long it has been called the Dower House - perhaps since it was built around 1750.
Sadly Shardlow Hall is not looking too good these days and there is now a children's nursery there.
A quick Wikipedia check shows the following:
"The house was built in 1684 for Leonard Fosbrooke, originally to an H-plan design with two storeys with parapets and a six-bay entrance front. A series of six Leonard Fosbrookes succeeded to the estate, two of whom served as High Sheriff of Derbyshire.[2] A new seven-bayed west garden front was constructed in 1726, and in the late 18th century the entrance front was extended by the creation of single-storey wings, each terminating in a pedimented two-storey pavilion.[1]
The Fosbrookes moved to Ravenstone Hall and in 1826 sold the house to James Sutton of Shardlow, High Sheriff of Derbyshire in 1842."
Shardlow Hall was built in 1684 to a design by Smith of Warwick and Joseph Pickford of Derby fame.
Still early days in the quest for more information but hopefully there is some out there...
Matt
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You lucky duck Matt. The house is wonderful!!!
I believe you can search by address on FindMyPast. Hopefully someone will be able to help you find previous residents.
You will find your house here:
https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side-by-side/#zoom=18.944508252821123&lat=52.8699&lon=-1.3563&layers=168&right=BingHyb
(You can scroll around and zoom in and out .... sadly the google maps view looks to be a bit old and indistinct)
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The barn next door looks very interesting too. :)
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Wills of previous residents that you already know might mention the house.
I thought to trace previous owners you need to obtain the deeds, for which there is a cost .... :-\
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The barn next door looks very interesting too. :)
Ooo yes. Very nice. :)
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Thanks Ruskie,
I cancelled my ancestry and find my past subscriptions a little while ago - there aren't enough hours in the day or night! So I might need to get back on it again... Not sure if anyone can help me out in the meantime to see if it does appear in any census?
It's a fantastic looking house but really in need of a lot of work. All very exciting really. Incidentally, the barn next door has recently had planning permission granted to convert it into accommodation. Not much has happened so far mind you.
That's a really good resource for the maps. I've never seen that before and can see it will be the source of a few more searches... Thank you.
The previous owner has some old deeds for the property. He is going to pass them on to me when the sale is completed. That could well be interesting and a source of some more recent history.
I did see a picture of the nearby Donnington Hall which was used to house German officer POWs in WW2. There was a perimeter barbed wire fence and guard towers - just what you woudl expect of a POW facility. I wonder whether this house would have been the same?
The tithe map I found at the records office (1850?) suggested there was only one person living in the house at that time and listed his occupation as agricultural labourer. I'm not sure that would be correct given it is a fairly large house.
Thanks again for the ideas and help.
Matt
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Oh dear ... I was going to make a comment about the barn next door, and how nice it looked because it was “unconverted” .... I would have spoken to soon. :( I’m generally not a fan of barn conversions, but don’t tell anyone in case I get shot down in flames.
I have taken a google streetview tour of parts of Shardlow, and it all looks fabulous. Very handy to have a Public House across the road.
What a project you have ahead of you, but an exciting one! What plans do you have for the house if you don’t mind me asking?
I know books have been written on how to research old houses but I don’t know enough to be able to recommend any I’m afraid. Google might throw up some search methods?
Hopefully the old deeds the seller passes on will reveal some clues. Please keep us informed of any developments. ;)
Wonderful house!
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Hi Ruskie,
It's all a bit run down unfortunately. A lot of general repairs throughout, plenty of older features eg fireplaces to reinstate/restore and generally to bringing up to current decorative/electrical/heating standards. There is also an old barn which is unconverted and almost falling down... That's going to be phase 2.
I will indeed keep the thread going with any developments on the history and house renovations if there is interest!!
The previous owners have been really good people to deal with and have passed on a lot of historical information that would otherwise have been lost if the purchase had been solely handled by the solicitors.
Matt
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Are there no tithe records before 1850? Have you looked at maps which go with tithe records?
The Genealogist has address search option too. I'd begin a census search by looking for the name of the road. If that fails, browse the census for the village. Read the page describing the area the census collector was responsible for.
Browse parish registers, looking for entries with addresses.
Leases in county archives. Manorial records.
Local directories. Whoever was resident at the Dower House in 19thC might be listed. There wouldn't have been many people in a village listing in early 19thC, so easy enough to browse.
Local newspapers for family announcements, obits, notices of property sales and leases, news items about social functions, old photos.
Local or county library for newspapers, photos, old guidebooks.
Local history/heritage society.
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I look forward to updates Matt (on any house history as well as your personal 'journey' restoring it).
I found some images of the interior from 2013 I think - um, yes, I think a bit of redecoration is required.
At least I know where to pop in for a cuppa when I am passing (or spoilt for choice for places to purchase a cooling beverage). ;) ;D
Btw, I think Jool probably is correct regarding the naming of the house. It is possible that there may be some parish registers to be found related to the family who built the house. Have you checked the church/yard?
Added: great suggestions Maiden Stone.
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Thanks again Ruskie and Maiden Stone.
I think the parish church was built in 1830 some time after the Dower House and Shardlow Hall. There were a few generations of Fosbrookes at the hall who presumably would then have moved into the Dower House. Whether the church came too late, possibly so... Later inhabitants might well be listed there. I shall make enquiries in due course.
There is a heritage centre in Shardlow which might have some useful information but its main focus (and rightly so) is the canal heritage. It's closed for the winter now but come the spring there could be a few clues to be found there.
Thanks again!
Matt
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It seems that before the construction of St James, All Saints at Aston was used by villagers of Shardlow.
I think the Heritage Centre will be worth a visit when it re-opens.
Good luck. :)
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Hi again Matt,
Not going too far back in time (1939), but I found this newspaper article mentioning some previous occupants of Dower House...
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The family are on the 1939 Register, but unfortunately we are not allowed to post details of the 1939 Register on Rootschat. You may be able to view the 1939 at your local library on Ancestry or FindMyPast.
The parents of the bride mentioned in the newspaper article are Sylvester Howorth Calvert & Lavinia Henshall who married in Shardlow in 1914.
Jool
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Sylvester H Calvert was a jeweller - here's a link to a postcard for sale of his shop in Shardlow
https://www.ebay.ie/itm/S-H-Calvert-Shop-Front-Jeweller-Shardlow-Nr-Castle-Donington-small-unused-RP-pc/163492249306?hash=item2610e5beda:g:ZFgAAOSwHxVW8R9A:rk:24:pf:0
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One of the staff or volunteers may know something or know someone who does.
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Thanks for the additional information! There will be lots to investigate in time (with another subscription of course!)...
Regarding the 1939 inhabitants, it would be interesting to know when they had to move out to make way for the Italian POWs... I wondered whether the whole place would have been ringed with barbed wire. I am told there have been quite a few rounds of ammunition dug up in the garden by the current owner.
Thanks again!
Matt
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In 1901, listed just after the Dog & Duck (RG13/3206 folio29 pg23)
John A Hogg, Head, M, 33, Medical Practitioner, own acc, Warwickshire Edgbaston
Amy K do, Wife, M, 31, , Devon Paignton
Jessie C do, Daur, 4, , Derbysh Shardlow
John P R do, Son, 3, , do do
Arthur C do, do, 1, , do do
Ada Timms, Servant, S, 24, Nursery Governess, Yorks Scarboro
Alice Shaw, do, S, 25, General Servant Domes, Derbysh Weston-on-Trent
Some censuses give the number of rooms in a property. Ten years later the same family is in a 12-room property, with three servants.
I don't think that Dr. Hogg moved house in the Edwardian period, though he lost a couple of years off his age.
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Following the enumerator's walk in 1891 and comparing with 1901, it looks like the house was then known as "The Rectory" (RG12/2721 folio14 pg21):
John Eaton, Head, S, 67, Rector of Shardlow, Sutton on the Hill Derbyshire
Elizabeth Eaton, Sister, S, 66, Living on her own means, do do
Alice E Pearce, Servant, S, 28, Cook Domestic Servant, Quebec America
Ellen Bembridge, do, S, 19, Housemaid do, Sutton on the Hill Derby
Frederick A Kirk, do, , 14, Page boy do, Holbrook Derbyshire
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In 1881, the entry just before the Dog & Duck (RG11/3387 folio17 pg25):
John Eaton, Head, single, 57, Rector of Shardlow, Derbys Sutton on Hill
Susannah H " , Sister, " , 60, Annuitant, " "
Elizabeth L " , " , " , 56, " , " "
Mary Ann Barker, Servant, " , 44, Cook Domestic Servant, Leicestershire Hathern?
Hubert Webb, " , " , 13, Page " " , " C. Donington
Alice E Pearce, " , " , 18, Housemaid " " , Canada
The 1871 census is not as clear cut. It will take a bit more investigation.
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I haven't picked up on the house history search for a while but I did attend a couple of presentations at the weekend relating to tracing history of older houses.
There is such a thing as the 1910 Valuation Office Survey which works along similar lines to the 1840s Tithe Apportionment Surveys in that you identify your house on a map and use the corresponding reference number to check a either a field book or valuation/domesday book that contains information on the owner and property. Looks quite interesting... The field books are held at Kew and the valuation/domesday book is held at the local records office. I had never heard of this before and suspect even though it is primarily property focussed, it might well be of interest to genealogists too.
There is also a WW2 bomb census map to consult - a story has it that one stained glass window in the house lost some of its coloured panes following an explosion. There was no coloured glass available to repair it and as a result there is a mix of coloured and clear glass fitted to the window today.
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I visited the local record office in Derbyshire to look up the entry for the 1910 map and Domesday book (the house is referenced as 188). I am told there is another copy of the map and so-called 'field book' available at Kew - it would be good to know if the Kew field book would have the same map reference. I would have thought so but the staff at the record office were uncertain. Perhaps there is a little more information in the field book as notes were often recorded against the property...
All I can say for sure is that John Hogg lived at the house at this time - presumably the house was rented from Edward Sutton. The nearby Shardlow Hall was purchased by James Sutton in the 1820s and I suspect that Edward is his grandson...
Plenty more digging to do...
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Possible reason you can't track the history back too far is because the property was formerly known as “The Villa” this is documented in the original grade 2 listing.
Although the Italians were at the property during the war they also shared the place with British army officers and they were let out with the land girls to work the fields.
There was a considerable amount of bullets found around the old copper beech tree which was in front of the little apple trees and the wall side of the greenhouse.
There was a tennis court in the garden in the 1950s hence the massive garden roller. This was also the time that the Booths rented the property, you will find his name etched on one of the right hand panes of glass in the old dining room.
There is also heaps of info carved into the lead around the windows on the roof, unfortunately some of it has now been covered with bitumen. On the subject of the roof this was replaced following a top floor fire which I believe was late 40s
The property was also the local surgery at some point and the GP was Dr Bell, again the dining room was the waiting room. This room had a floor to ceiling pine bookcase from the window to the wall where the fish tank is and all across that wall.
There was a priest hole above the toilet room but this was re roofed about a decade ago and allegedly a cellar that has been capped off in the room under the main staircase.
Hopes this helps a bit
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Welcome to rootschat Glynno. :)
Here is a link to another thread which includes further information:
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=812640.msg6734489#msg6734489
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Glynno, if you make another post or two you can contact Matt via Personal Message if you wish to - click on the scroll in the circle, under his name to send a PM.
It sounds like you have an intimate knowledge of the house. May I ask how? (I understand if you don’t wish to answer that.) :)
I find it all fascinating!
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In short I grew up there, my Parents and Grandparents were the previous occupants. Back in the 1980s I also tried to track down the history of the property so do have an insight to a bit of its history but information was difficult to access back then, I also spent a lot of time in the Dog and Duck with the village oldies that spent their whole lives in the village but have sadly all passed on now, this was a great source of knowledge "some embellished of course" I have a few old photographs of the property that I will dig out for Matt one of which is of one of the POWs that came back to see the house in the 1970s. there are many hidden things in the house just waiting to be found again, lf I remember correctly there is another wooden floor beneath the oak floor in the main hall, the hidden door which Matt is aware of, I pulled lots items and letters out from void between the 3rd floor water tanks and the wall, I know there are still some there but never got round to retrieving them "I don't like spiders" I could go on for hours, when the grey cells remind me of something interesting I will be sure to pass it on.
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Hello Glynno
Thank you for sharing this.
Also being discussed here
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=812640.msg6731193#msg6731193
Matt has found documents confirming The Villa / The Dower House, once belonged to the Sutton family of Shardlow, local Landowners and an older name for the field, The Old Homestead.
Mark
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In short I grew up there, my Parents and Grandparents were the previous occupants. Back in the 1980s I also tried to track down the history of the property so do have an insight to a bit of its history but information was difficult to access back then, I also spent a lot of time in the Dog and Duck with the village oldies that spent their whole lives in the village but have sadly all passed on now, this was a great source of knowledge "some embellished of course" I have a few old photographs of the property that I will dig out for Matt one of which is of one of the POWs that came back to see the house in the 1970s. there are many hidden things in the house just waiting to be found again, lf I remember correctly there is another wooden floor beneath the oak floor in the main hall, the hidden door which Matt is aware of, I pulled lots items and letters out from void between the 3rd floor water tanks and the wall, I know there are still some there but never got round to retrieving them "I don't like spiders" I could go on for hours, when the grey cells remind me of something interesting I will be sure to pass it on.
Thanks for explaining that Glynno. I hope Matt manages to unearth some of the treasures you remember. :)
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A very warm welcome, Glynno!
There is a group of us here that have become absolutely fascinated with the history of this house, so when you said that you could go on for hours, please do!
Hopefully in the next few days, I can post a timeline of what we know so far, so please make sure your Rootschat settings are set to send you notifications of new posts in this thread! We may need to be corrected on a few things, and you may learn some older history yourself!
And of course, if you ever need a hand doing your own family tree, we are here to help!
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Although the Italians were at the property during the war they also shared the place with British army officers and they were let out with the land girls to work the fields.
I can't help thinking this was unwise; there may have been unintended consequences. ;)
Interesting reading.
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It has been great to hear from Glynn and his recollections from growing up in the house. Many questions have been answered and I now have a better idea of the recent history to add to that which the Roots Chatters have been helping me with!
The generosity of strangers on this (and other) sites is overwhelming.
Thank you.
Matt
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I am researching PoW camps of WW2. I can confirm that this was known as Camp 570. It was known, on PoW mail as Camp 570, Shardlow Hall. I struggled for years, with Camp 570. There is a lot on the web, about PoWs at the Hall, but I have yet to find evidence of them staying there. So it was a real pleasure for me to find that your house, at the end of a track to the Hall, was the true location for Camp 570.
It was very common to call a 'Camp' by the name of a very large house, nearby. The guards, for Camp 570, were obviously housed in the grounds of the Hall - and their officers lived in the Hall itself.
Italian PoWs were generally used, for agricultural labour. But officers were exempt from doing labour.
I would be interested to hear how the PoWs spent their time, at your house. Obviously, during the day, they would have been taken to the Hall. Once the war ended, the PoWs enjoyed a fair amount of freedom (especially officers). As long as they were in bed, by a certain hour, they would have been allowed to use the Dog and Duck and gone to the cinema etc. I found that the Italian PoWs were very popular with the locals - who did not consider them to be the enemy, compared to German PoWs.
If you scour eBay - on the Italian and German versions, especially, you might get luck and pick up a letter or postcard written and sent from your house. If you are luckier still, you might even find a letter sent from Italy to your house. Once the war was over, the whole PoW address situation became more lax. In other words, Camp 570 may even have your house name on an envelope. Good luck with your search.
The last of the PoWs would have departed your house in 1948. If you contact me, I am in touch with some PoW specialists in Italy. We may be able to find out more about the war history of your property. Because it would have been inspected at some stage, for example, by the International Red Cross.