RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => United States of America => Topic started by: Bellevue on Tuesday 22 January 19 14:13 GMT (UK)
-
I have been researching this family since 2011. I have found and located all marriage and death certs for all the family except 1 daughter ALICE DUNN.
I really really want to find her!!!! This is what I have on her:
Parents Thomas J. Dunn and Mary Tuite.
Born about 1879 in New York.
1880 Census https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-9YBH-H1J?i=28&cc=1417683
1900 Census https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-6Q59-9KH?i=25&cc=1325221
1905 Census https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9Q97-YSRS-6LW?i=29&cc=1463113
1910 Census https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-GRV9-Q7X?i=1&cc=1727033
1911 (Sep) Witness at her sister Grace's marriage
She is NOT buried in the family plot in Calvary where ALL her siblings are (married ones included). So this could suggest she perhaps married and is interred somewhere else.
Any help much appreciated. Thank you
-
Do you have any obituaries for her parents or siblings?
-
Do you have any obituaries for her parents or siblings?
No, not all of them.
Father, yes. just lists his children and siblings in NY.
Of Alice's siblings:
Thomas, yes died 1907, does not mention other family members (buried in family plot)
George, yes died 1917, does not mention other family members(buried in family plot)
Charles, no I do not believe I have his but he died Nov 1928(buried in family plot)
Grace, no I do not believe I have hers, she died Oct 1915(buried in family plot)
Uncle Michael died 1908, does not mention Alice in his obit. (buried in HIS family plot)
Uncle Bart died 1930, does not mention Alice in his obit.(buried in family plot)
Aunt Helen died 1914, does not mention Alice in his obit.(buried in family plot)
-
I think I see one for Charles in the NY Times, but it only mentions that he's the husband of Frances A. McCabe and son of the late Thomas J. Dunn.
-
I think I see one for Charles in the NY Times, but it only mentions that he's the husband of Frances A. McCabe and son of the late Thomas J. Dunn.
yes, thats him
-
Looks like Grace's is here with only her husband and father mentioned: http://www.fultonhistory.com/Newspaper%2014/New%20York%20NY%20Herald/New%20York%20NY%20Herald%201915/New%20York%20NY%20Herald%201915%20a%20-%201499.pdf
:(
-
Looks like Grace's is here with only her husband and father mentioned: http://www.fultonhistory.com/Newspaper%2014/New%20York%20NY%20Herald/New%20York%20NY%20Herald%201915/New%20York%20NY%20Herald%201915%20a%20-%201499.pdf
:(
yep thats her.
-
Yes, Alice Dunn is a real conundrum for sure.
The most frustrating part is that I have located everyone else and their descendants up to present day.
I have to finish a family history booklet on the Dunns in New York by May for family and cousins and writing "unknown" after Alice will be very saddening but at the moment that's the way it will be unfortunately.
What other info could I give that could help in some way in finding her?
-
Here's my other ideas, which you may have tried already:
1. With an exact date of birth, you could search databases with just Alice and the date of birth in case she's under a married name. Birth records were a bit hit or miss in that time frame, so it may not exist.
2. Check siblings' death certificates to see if any of the informants were named Alice.
3. Check city directories for NY City. I saw some Alice Dunns in 1911 and after, but no evidence one way or the other about whether it was your Alice. Maybe you can rule them in or out as a possibility by seeing if there are other Alice Dunns at those addresses in the 1910/1915/1920 census.
4. Check for married Alices of the right age with other surnames in the 1915 NY census.
-
I tried a few places. First, at
http://www.italiangen.org/records-search/brides.php
I found 10 brides named Alice Dunn, marrying after 1910. I eliminated all three that married in Manhattan, but none of the ones who married in the other boroughs. They are:
Dunn, Alice I, Apr 24, 1921, Manhattan, Groom: Walter Crogan
not her. parents names different: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:24W4-LZC
Dunn, Alice E, May 24, 1927, Manhattan, Groom: Francis O'Connor
not her. parents names different:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:24WQ-861
Dunn, Alice, Jul 4, 1936, Manhattan, Groom: John Piazza
not her. parents names different:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:24DM-DQ6
---------
the other seven:
Dunn, Alice, Jun 23, 1910, Kings, Groom: William A Morrison
Dunn, Alice, Jun 17, 1925, Kings, Groom: Louis Lafkowitz
Dunn, Alice, Sep 3, 1926, Bronx,Groom: John Reilly
Dunn, Alice, Oct 4, 1930, Bronx, Groom: William Schmidt
Dunn, Alice, Aug 29, 1937, Kings, Groom: Arthur Hornyak
Dunn, Alice M, Sep 26, 1937, Kings, Groom: James L McGovern
Dunn, Alice J, Oct 17, 1937, Bronx, Groom: Bryant H Minard
--------
Then I went to familysearch and looked for anyone named Alice born about the right time with parents Thomas Dunn and Mary. Nothing found.
---------
Then I tried people born in New York between 1910 and 1935 whose mother was named Alice Dunn. Here are the first six results, five werel eliminated. For the last one , a subscription to ancestry.com would help.:
not mother of Josephine Cridland
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2WHT-HF7
That Alice was b 1890
-----------
not the mother of these two infants
Wm Joseph Fay d Dec 1919
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2WZH-SZX
John Raphael Fay, d 30 Sep 1924
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:24MW-MQP
she was born 1897, Ireland
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MJB8-ZQH
-----------
probably not the mother of Alice Brown, d Brooklyn, 1918
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2WNG-QJH
If this is the same couple, she was born 1894
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MJ5H-85V
-----------
not mother of James H Coleman, because he was born in 1907
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2WC1-53T
Also, was the wife of James H, and was born 1884, according to 1910 census
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M5QG-SFD
---------
not mother of Alice Ford McCabe who died 1938 Brooklyn
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2WTT-FHM
Her stepmother Alice was born 1902
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X4PW-RV5
---------
Not eliminated:
is she mother of Albert W Jones d age 5 in 1923 in Brooklyn
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2W11-XMS
This could be Albert Sr in 1925, but I don't have ancestry.com to see the whole household and I didn't find Alice in Brooklyn in 1925
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:K91F-7SY
-
Here's my other ideas, which you may have tried already:
1. With an exact date of birth, you could search databases with just Alice and the date of birth in case she's under a married name. Birth records were a bit hit or miss in that time frame, so it may not exist.
2. Check siblings' death certificates to see if any of the informants were named Alice.
3. Check city directories for NY City. I saw some Alice Dunns in 1911 and after, but no evidence one way or the other about whether it was your Alice. Maybe you can rule them in or out as a possibility by seeing if there are other Alice Dunns at those addresses in the 1910/1915/1920 census.
4. Check for married Alices of the right age with other surnames in the 1915 NY census.
Good tips, thanks.
I believe I have already looked for her birth cert but did not find one.
-
---------
Not eliminated:
is she mother of Albert W Jones d age 5 in 1923 in Brooklyn
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2W11-XMS
This could be Albert Sr in 1925, but I don't have ancestry.com to see the whole household and I didn't find Alice in Brooklyn in 1925
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:K91F-7SY
Thank you very much for taking the time to look for her. I do not have an ancestry sub at the moment but will look in the coming weeks when I get one.
She really is a mystery...
-
As she is not buried with all her family I am inclined to believe she must have married and so is buried elsewhere.
Can I contact the New York State Archives/Library and request a lookup of the marriage records for an Alice Dunn with father Thomas? What is the website or email for this?
p.s. I live in Italy, so cannot go in person.
-
No, that would be very expensive and unlikely to succeed.
1. New York City and the rest of New York State keep their records separately.
2. Even if you thought she married in New York outside of the city (which we don't have any indication is likely), a vague search (if they would even do it) like that would cost north of $200. Ancestry has the NY state marriage index, but it does not list parents.
3. Italiangen.org has a NYC bride’s index that is available for free. Familysearch.org has some free NYC marriage records. Ancestry has a NYC marriage license index, and a similar index is available here for free - https://archive.org/details/nycmarriageindex
-
If I ring Calvary Cemetery will they be able to do a look up of all "Alice Dunns" after 1911 or do they need a date of death.
-
I've never dealt with them, so I don't know. From what I hear, they tend to ask for a lot of money for information on who's buried in any plot.
-
If I ring Calvary Cemetery will they be able to do a look up of all "Alice Dunns" after 1911 or do they need a date of death.
Do you know the plot number? That might help.
Also it might depend on how much you sound like a family member that wants to put flowers on the grave, and how little you sound like a genealogist. :)
Or if you know someone in NYC who would go there in person, they might be more inclined to be forthcoming with some information.
I had a good experience with a Catholic Cemetery in the Boston area, but maybe because I was there in person and truthfully could tell them I was looking for my wife's family's plot.
-
regarding ancestry.com, some public libraries in the US have a subscription to it. Could that be the case in Italy?
-
Do you know the plot number? That might help.
Yes of the main family plot where her parents and siblings are buried. I have the internment list for the plot which I got from a descendant of a brother of Alice.
Alice is not listed as being buried in the plot
-
Do you know the plot number? That might help.
Yes of the main family plot where her parents and siblings are buried. I have the internment list for the plot which I got from a descendant of a brother of Alice.
Alice is not listed as being buried in the plot
I would guess that if there was any room in the plot when Alice died, and if she died single, then she would have been buried in that plot. Or they would have made room. So it seems unlikely to me that she is buried in Calvary under the name Alice Dunn, therefore not worth paying them money to get an answer.
Which brings you back to finding her as a married person, or dying somewhere you haven't looked yet.