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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Free Photo Restoration & Date Old Photographs => Topic started by: Claire64 on Saturday 26 January 19 00:09 GMT (UK)
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Elizabeth Crossley, my great-grandmother, 1851-1929, mother of at least 4 illegitimate children (none of whom she brought up herself), , in trouble for concealing the birth and death of a child, avoider of all things official all her life, with the exception of appearing on the electoral roll for several years after her death! General all-round mystery who refuses to let me find out anything about her!!! (and wearing a wedding ring here, even though she never married). I think I might try a seance next...
Date? Clean up photo? any thoughts at all on this mystery woman I've been chasing all my life!
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Datewise 1890 +/- a year.
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Here you go Claire...what an intriguing lady ;D
Carol
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Lovely restore, Carol :)
I took the liberty of doing a head and shoulders and a bit of this and that.....
Gadget
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Thanks Gadget :) I like what you have done with it.
Carol
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Thanks :)
I was doing some 'arty' effects on some pics that I'd taken so when I cleaned this one up, I decided to try some old camera/printing effects. This one was using Nik Software, Silver Effects:
https://nikcollection.dxo.com/
I've had the collection when they were owned by Nik but they seem to have gone to dxo via Google.
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Yes it can produce some good effects, you told me about this some time ago and I use it from time to time :D
Carol
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This lady certainly has quite a history.
Pat
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Many thanks for the restores, it's amazing what you can do! Someone on our local forum was wondering about the prop; I assumed a chair arm, someone mentioned a prayer stool (I find that unlikely! but you never know).
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The prop is a throwback to the 1870's when it was commonly used particularly for photos of women.
Not used much in the 1880's. I think the photographer could have done with a studio makeover.
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My try. :)
Peter
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The prop is a throwback to the 1870's when it was commonly used particularly for photos of women.
Not used much in the 1880's. I think the photographer could have done with a studio makeover.
haha! we are a bit of a backwater here!!
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My try. :)
Peter
lovely! thanks.
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She is certainly showing off her ring isn't she :D have you tried searching for her as Betty or Eliza, I have found it got results for me in the past.
Carol
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She is certainly showing off her ring isn't she :D have you tried searching for her as Betty or Eliza, I have found it got results for me in the past.
Carol
I have tried EVERYTHING!!!!! She does not want to be found. A newspaper report of 1883 says her sister called her Lizzie. Tried that too. And every spelling variation of Crossley I can come up with.
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Hi Claire,
She was a lovely looking woman.
I'm curious about you not finding her and would like to put my tuppence worth in to try and help.
Is Crossley her married name? Where was she born?
If you want me to go away, just say so, I wont be offended. I'm a sticky nose for family history and like to help everyone. :>)
Cheers,
Di
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Hi Claire,
She was a lovely looking woman.
I'm curious about you not finding her and would like to put my tuppence worth in to try and help.
Is Crossley her married name? Where was she born?
If you want me to go away, just say so, I wont be offended. I'm a sticky nose for family history and like to help everyone. :>)
Cheers,
Di
how kind of you! She was born in 1851 at Hollow Meadows WRY daughter of Charles Crossley and Mary Poynton. She had at least 4 illegitimate children (I posted yesterday on a separate thread in the Common Room about them, entitled Total Confusion! https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=807226.0
I found her in 1871 in Dukinfield as a servant. Elizabeth had four illegitimate children – Mary (also known by the names Mary Alice, Mary Florence and Florence Mary) in 1874, Ernest in 1876, Wright in 1879 and Thomas Marsh Crossley in 1886 (my great grandfather). The first two children were brought up by Elizabeth’s parents, Wright died when he was one year old, and Thomas Marsh was brought up by the Marsh family. In 1883 Elizabeth and her sister Louisa were mentioned in the newspapers, in trouble for concealing the birth of Louisa's child. And that's it!! Nothing on the census from 1871. She died in 1929. Is on the electoral register at 16 Haywoods Park, Deepcar, WRY from 1929 (I think she went to her family, to die) til 1934 even though she'd died - I have the death certificate.
She was known to the family as Lizzie. My nan (her grandaughter) said she never married. She's definitely showing off a ring though! I got the impression that my nan, born 1913, never met her but I could be wrong.
If you can find anything I will be VERY impressed! I like a challenge and I am quite good at it usually, but have failed miserably here!!!
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Hi Claire,
Well, I have had fun and frustration in looking up Elizabeth and her elusive family.
I hope that the attached document gives you some new information (probably not) but you never know. I thoroughly enjoyed myself, thanks for giving me the opportunity to be a sticky nose again.
Cheers,
Di Maloney
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Thanks Di! I'm going to look at this info later today and get back to you. Want to do it now but I can't!!! Claire
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Di, thanks so much. Here is what I know and what I've looked at. Should answer some of the questions you posed, I hope anyway. I hope a fresh set of eyes can see something I can't. Part 1
ELIZABETH CROSSLEY
Born at Hollowmeadows, WRY and baptised Stannington parish church 29 February 1852, Elizabeth & Emily, daughters of Charles (farm bailiff) and Mary Crossley of Hollow Meadows. Emily born c1850. Elizabeth’s birth registered September Q 1851. I was sure I’d bought her birth certificate but I can’t find it anywhere!
Married at Ecclesfield on the 30th November 1848 (by License)
Charles Crossley, of full age, Bachelor, Farmer, Grenoside, Sheffield; John Crossley, Farmer
Mary Pointon, of full age, Spinster, Sheffield; Robert Pointon, Farmer
Witnesses: Thomas Moore and Jane Nicholson
The Marriage Bond/Allegation states that Charles Crossley was “30 years and upwards” born before 1818] and Mary Poynton “21 years and upwards” [born before 1827]
1861 census: at home (Spink House) Charles & Mary her parents, and family. Aged 10. They later lived at nearby Coach Houses, Hunshelf. When Charles died, Mary moved to 16 Haywoods Park, Deepcar, also nearby, where she lived with some of her family.
1871 census: 41 King Street, Dukinfield, Cheshire. Servant aged 19 to Charles Booth, Butcher
Not found her on 1881 census
1883: mentioned in newspapers as helping her sister Louisa conceal the birth and death of a child (never named). “Elizabeth Crossley, single woman, of Coach Houses, Stocksbridge, said….”
Not found her on 1891, 1901 or 1911 census returns for England or Scotland
Elizabeth died at 16 New Haywoods 24th October 1929 aged 78. Informant, who was present at the death, was her son Ernest Crossley of the same address. She doesn’t appear to have left a will – searched the Probate Books at Sheffield Archives.
Extract from Death Certificate: died 24th October 1929 at 16 New Haywoods, Stocksbridge, Elizabeth Crossley, Female, 78 years, Spinster. 1a congestion of the lungs. No PM. Ernest Crossley, son, present at the death, 16 New Haywoods, Stocksbridge
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HER CHILDREN:
1. MARY / FLORENCE
Mary, Mary Alice, Mary F. and Forence M?
Birth cert: B. 10 Oct 1874 Whitwell, Bradfield, Mary, Girl, [father’s name blank], of Elizabeth Crossley. Informant: Charles Crossley, Occupier, Whitwell. Baptised at Bolsterstone 10 June 1876: Mary Alice dau of Elizabeth Crossley of Whitwell, single woman, b 29 October 1874 [sic]. What is odd is that on all subsequent records, her DOB works out at 1876. But I can't find a death for this Mary or a birth for a Florence Mary/Mary Florence.
The Registrar’s Office in Sheffield checked various possibilities for me, and only one matched to a single mother called Elizabeth – the birth of Mary Crossley on 10th Oct 1874.
I am sure Mary, Mary Alice and Mary F. and Florence Mary were the same person. There is no Florence Mary or Mary Alice or Mary Florence in the births indexes that fit these dates. The only Florence Mary was born in Lancashire in 1875, but she died in 1877. There were other Florence Marys in 1873, one at Leeds (dau of Thomas and Mary) and one at Walsall (she was in London in 1881)
1881: Coach House, Hunshelf: Florence Crossley was with Charles & Mary, 5 years old, g/dau
1891: Coach House, Hunshelf: Mary F. Crossley was with Charles & Mary, 15 years old, g/dau
My grandma (Elizabeth’s granddaughter Connie Crossley) said one of Elizabeth’s daughters had married a man called Moody.
Married at The Registry Office in the District of Wortley, Thirtieth June 1900, by Certificate:
John William Moody, 27 years, Bachelor, Labourer, Deepcar; John Moody (decd), Labourer
Florence Mary Crossley, 24 years, Spinster, Deepcar [no father]
They lived in Sheffield. I am in touch with her descendant but he knows nothing about her history.
2. ERNEST
Baptised at Bolsterstone 26 September 1879: Ernest son of Elizabeth Crossley of Stocksbridge, single woman, born 21 August 1876.
Birth certificate: B. 22 Aug 1876, Whitwell Bradfield, Ernest, [father’s name - blank] son of Elizabeth Crossley. Informant: the mark of Elizabeth Crossley, mother, Whitwell Bradfield
1881 census, Coach House, Hunshelf. Charles & Mary Crossley together with Ernest Crossley, grandson, 3 years old, born Ecclesfield [parish] c1878
1891 census, Coach House, Hunshelf. Mary Crossley and family together with Ernest Crossley, grandson, 13 years old, factory hand in steel works, born Bolsterstone c1878
1901 census, 16 Haywoods Park. Mary Crossley and family together with Ernest Crossley, grandson, single, 24 years old, labourer in wire mill, born Stocksbridge c1877
1911 census, 16 Haywoods Park. Eleanor Crossley (head, single, 40, born Bolsterstone). Ernest Crossley (nephew, single, 34, steel rod dresser, born Bolsterstone c1877). Arnold Crossley (nephew, single, 19, steel rod dresser, born Bolsterstone).
Ernest Crossley of Haywood Park who died 21st March 1937 aged 58 [born c1879]; buried at Bolsterstone 24th March. I don’t think he married. I can’t find his death certificate although I am sure I have it.
3. WRIGHT CROSSLEY
Baptised at Bolsterstone 01 October 1879: Wright son of Elizabeth Crossley of Stocksbridge, single woman, born 27 April 1879 [birth certificate says 17th April]. He was baptised at the same time as Elizabeth’s sisters Eleanor (born 1870) and Havis (born 1873).
Birth certificate: B. 17 April 1879, Whitwell, Bradfield, Wright, [father’s name - blank] son of Elizabeth Crossley. The mark of Mary Crossley [grandmother], Present at the birth, Whitwell, Bradfield. Death certificate: d. 12 Aug 1880 Stocksbridge, Hunshelf. Wright Crossley, male, 1 year, son of Elizabeth Crossley. Present at the death – Mary Ann Sykes [a neighbour]
4. THOMAS MARSH CROSSLEY – my great grandfather
Born 14th December 1886 at 7 Court, Chapel Street, Thomas Marsh, boy, son of Elizabeth Crossley (her mark) of Old Haywoods, Deepcar, near Sheffield [from birth certificate]. Baptised St. Philip’s Church, Sheffield, 14 January 1887: Thomas Marsh son of Elizbeth Crossley of Stocksbridge. He was given the middle name of Marsh at birth, which makes me think his father was a Marsh. He was brought up by the Marsh family but try as I might I can’t find a connection. I have looked for Elizabeth living with a Marsh, using the surname Marsh, with no success. Married 1910 to Clara Crawshaw; no father’s name given on marriage certificate. Died 1963. Had one child, my grandma Connie Crossley, in 1913.
I have traced all Charles and Mary’s children in the hope they might have been harbouring Elizabeth, no luck. And just for good measure, I’ll throw in my nan Connie’s story. There was a mysterious ancestor, a ‘Lady in her own right’, owning her own crested linen and silver. The romantic elopement, running away with one of the servants - the family's coachman - and the inevitable consequence of being disowned, never to be referred to again, any references to her destroyed, gone as if she never existed for bringing shame on the family. Tales of a young girl stolen away by white slave traders and never heard of again, and another who was a “Queen’s nurse”. I found black slave traders, a nurse and maybe a prostitute (white slave trade). Some names my nan remembered turned up. I got the impression Thomas Marsh did not see his mother, but I may be wrong. I’ve traced members of the Marsh family, some of them remember an “uncle Thomas” but no scandalous stories. I feel like I’ve run out of options, apart from a séance!
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1883: mentioned in newspapers as helping her sister Louisa conceal the birth and death of a child (never named).
Oh my goodness :o
Do you know anything more about this? I'd be interested in reading the newspaper article!
I once was advised by someone to research into an ancestors 'FAN' club (Friends and neighbours) when you think you've hit a brickwall - it's uncovered some really interesting stuff for me and might work for you too. Apologies if you've already tried this :)
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1883: mentioned in newspapers as helping her sister Louisa conceal the birth and death of a child (never named).
Oh my goodness :o
Do you know anything more about this? I'd be interested in reading the newspaper article!
I once was advised by someone to research into an ancestors 'FAN' club (Friends and neighbours) when you think you've hit a brickwall - it's uncovered some really interesting stuff for me and might work for you too. Apologies if you've already tried this :)
Yes, I am trying the FAN club as you call it. I'm finding all sorts out, but not what I want!! I'll try and attach the newspaper article as an attachment.
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Yes, I am trying the FAN club as you call it. I'm finding all sorts out, but not what I want!! I'll try and attach the newspaper article as an attachment.
Thanks for linking the article - very interesting read!!
Do you have any more info on the following;
- Mr. Edmund Knowles Binns; Louisa Crossley's master. If you found a household census it may list Elizabeth as a lodger?
I'm thinking that the father could have been a fellow male servant - Victorians had strict rules for domestic servants and would be expelled if they were found 'cavorting' around (they were not allowed to have relationships outside the house either). Apparently more then half of illegitimate children in this era were born to maids!
- Coach Houses, Stocksbridge - this is stated to be Elizabeth's place of residence
- Rising Sun Hotel, Hunshelf; if this is an inn you might find Louisa and Elizabeth as lodgers?
'Elizabeth Crossley, single woman, of Coach Houses, Stocksbridge,
said she [ELIZABETH AS WELL?] was a domestic servant in the service of Mr. Knowles
Binns'
I believe she is only referring to her sister :)
'Louisa went to the theatre at night, and slept with Mrs. Binns'
So I'm guessing Louisa and Mrs Binns were close?
Overall quite a morbid story! I'm surprised there wasn't a conviction of any sort - it's all very suspicious...
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Do you have any more info on the following;
- Mr. Edmund Knowles Binns; Louisa Crossley's master. If you found a household census it may list Elizabeth as a lodger?
MR AND MRS BINNS ONLY MARRIED THE PREVIOUS YEAR, 1882. AND THAT'S A WHOLE OTHER STORY! THEY MET THROUGH A LONELY HEARTS COLUMN, AND HER BROTHER HIRED HEAVIES TO TRY AND PREVENT THE MARRIAGE! HE WAS A WELL KNOWN SOLICITOR AND SHE WAS AN HEIRESS.
I'm thinking that the father could have been a fellow male servant - Victorians had strict rules for domestic servants and would be expelled if they were found 'cavorting' around (they were not allowed to have relationships outside the house either). Apparently more then half of illegitimate children in this era were born to maids!
POSSIBLY BUT I DON'T THINK I CAN FIND OUT BECAUSE OF THE DATES INVOLVED - JUST AFTER 1881 CENSUS
- Coach Houses, Stocksbridge - this is stated to be Elizabeth's place of residence
IT'S HER PARENTS. I DON'T THINK SHE LIVED THERE PERMANENTLY BUT WOULD HAVE BEEN IN SERVICE AT VARIOUS PLACES
- Rising Sun Hotel, Hunshelf; if this is an inn you might find Louisa and Elizabeth as lodgers?
IT WAS A LOCAL PUB, AND INQUESTS WERE HELD THERE ON A REGULAR BASIS.
'Elizabeth Crossley, single woman, of Coach Houses, Stocksbridge,
said she [ELIZABETH AS WELL?] was a domestic servant in the service of Mr. Knowles
Binns'
I believe she is only referring to her sister :) THANKS!
'Louisa went to the theatre at night, and slept with Mrs. Binns'
So I'm guessing Louisa and Mrs Binns were close? SOUNDS LIKE IT.
Overall quite a morbid story! I'm surprised there wasn't a conviction of any sort - it's all very suspicious... I THINK THE INQUEST ASCERTAINED THAT IT WASN'T ABORTION OR MURDER, OTHERWISE THERE WOULD HAVE BEEN MORE TROUBLE.
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I shall need to check this carefully when I next use my computer and FH program tomorrow or Monday, but I believe there is a connection to my wife's ancestors who were certainly called Crosslet, and were located bear Penistone. If so, it is with an earlier generation from around 1800 to 1830.
My late mother in law, a STRICT Baptist would have been appalled at her behaviour. Perhaps not as she put up with me and lived to 94!
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I shall need to check this carefully when I next use my computer and FH program tomorrow or Monday, but I believe there is a connection to my wife's ancestors who were certainly called Crosslet, and were located bear Penistone. If so, it is with an earlier generation from around 1800 to 1830.
My late mother in law, a STRICT Baptist would have been appalled at her behaviour. Perhaps not as she put up with me and lived to 94!
Lol. My Crossleys came from Swinden, which is near Flouch, just off what is now the Woodhead Pass. Various branches spread out to Penistone and Stocksbridge (both only a few miles away). Except for one Benjamin Crossley who decamped to Jamaica. I'm pretty scandalised by her behaviour!! One illegitimate child could be mistake.. but FOUR? (or more, jury's out on that).
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Well, this looks likely as the family my wife is connected to had relatives with slaves and plantations in the West Indies, but as I say I shall need to do an extensive check. Seems a big coincidence though.
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Do you have any more info on the following;
- Mr. Edmund Knowles Binns; Louisa Crossley's master. If you found a household census it may list Elizabeth as a lodger?
MR AND MRS BINNS ONLY MARRIED THE PREVIOUS YEAR, 1882. AND THAT'S A WHOLE OTHER STORY! THEY MET THROUGH A LONELY HEARTS COLUMN, AND HER BROTHER HIRED HEAVIES TO TRY AND PREVENT THE MARRIAGE! HE WAS A WELL KNOWN SOLICITOR AND SHE WAS AN HEIRESS.
I didn't even know that they had a 'Lonely Hearts Columns' back then! ;D
Well, you've definitely got some interesting family stories to tell. It would be very ironic if that was a prayer stool in Elizabeth's picture :P
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My Crossleys are as follows: Isaac Crossley b c1684 Penistone No record of wife children Ann (Hannah) b 1716 Penistone, Benn b1726 Penistone m Hannah Gillam 10.12.1750 Penistone daughter Ann (Hannah) b Penistone 1751 son Leonard Crossley b1767 Penistone (No record of father) m Rebecca Senior (b Silkstone 1781) 18.10.1792 Silkstone ( I am suspicious of the birthdate, though just about possible a marriage at 12 is unlikely even in this era) They had 9 known children Hephzibah (B1795) Mary (b1797) George (b1798) John Senior (b1799)Henry (B1801) Susannah (b1801)Joseph (b1803) Richard (b1806) Francis (b1808) The only known birthplace is Susannah , and it is Silkstone.
A search for Crossley on this site will provide over 60 links, many of which are relevant. Apparently Susannah lived at WaterHall nr. Penistone, and there is some connection to the Crossleys of Halifax. The Crossleys of Water Hall had plantations in the West Indies. I hope this is helpful.
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My Crossleys are as follows: Isaac Crossley b c1684 Penistone No record of wife children Ann (Hannah) b 1716 Penistone, Benn b1726 Penistone m Hannah Gillam 10.12.1750 Penistone daughter Ann (Hannah) b Penistone 1751 son Leonard Crossley b1767 Penistone (No record of father) m Rebecca Senior (b Silkstone 1781) 18.10.1792 Silkstone ( I am suspicious of the birthdate, though just about possible a marriage at 12 is unlikely even in this era) They had 9 known children Hephzibah (B1795) Mary (b1797) George (b1798) John Senior (b1799)Henry (B1801) Susannah (b1801)Joseph (b1803) Richard (b1806) Francis (b1808) The only known birthplace is Susannah , and it is Silkstone.
A search for Crossley on this site will provide over 60 links, many of which are relevant. Apparently Susannah lived at WaterHall nr. Penistone, and there is some connection to the Crossleys of Halifax. The Crossleys of Water Hall had plantations in the West Indies. I hope this is helpful.
I am not sure what the connection is but I'd be happy to look into it. I am not sure if we've corresponded before, many years ago, by Snail Mail! I have a tree drawn going back to Leonard and Rebecca but never made a connection to my own tree. I have a brief note about a possible relationship of this family to the Halifax Crossleys. My own line goes back from my elusive great great grandmother Elizabeth Crossley (1851) through , Charles Crossley, John Crossley and Mary Thickett, John Crossley and Martha Raynor, John (1728, Langsett) and Ann, then his father Benjamin. The slavery connection comes from Benjamin's other son Isaac of Netherhouse. His son Benjamin (1774) went to Jamaica. That family is fascinating. If you want to get in touch, please PM me.
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Claire, You need to remove your email address as it is against Rootschat Privacy policy. It is best to contact him by personal message, you can do this by clicking on the text icon on the left beneath his name.
Carol
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Claire, You need to remove your email address as it is against Rootschat Privacy policy. It is best to contact him by personal message, you can do this by clicking on the text icon on the left beneath his name.
Carol
oops, sorry, I didn't know that. Thanks