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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Hertfordshire => Topic started by: Cnthree3 on Saturday 26 January 19 17:05 GMT (UK)
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Hello
Ive been chatting to my elderly father about his Yorkshire born and bred parents and why my father was born where he was (Hitchin, Hertfordshire). Apparently his parents were 'outcast' when, unmarried, they found my father was suddenly on the way. His mother and father, William Andrew Brignall 1911 - 1983 moved to a 'big estate in Herefordshire' where he worked as a farm labourer, and my father was told he was the first boy to be born on the estate (1939) for over 100 years and as a result when he was christened Princess Elizabeth (our queen) and Princess Margaret were present in the church.
He knows nothing more than this about the story and the only facts i have is that in 1939 his parents were living at The Holt Cottages, Hitchin.
Doe anyone have any idea what the 'big'estate may be, the church that may be relevant, and if there is any way I can check if there is any truth to this family story.
I appreciate there is not a lot to go on...
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Apologies if I have not understood your post. But you mention him being born in Hertfordshire and then refer to his parents moving to a big estate in Herefordshire where you also say he was born.
Can you please clarify which place it is you are hoping to find the "big estate"?
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Deleted - I missed the Holt Cottages address ;D
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There's a problem here Rhododendron...
If your Father was Born in 1911, and presumably Christened then, - Princesses Elizabeth and Margaret weren't born until 1926 and 1930!
Romilly.
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Could he have worked at St Paul's Walden Bury Hitchens. It was the childhood home of the Queen Mother.
Tazzie
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As I read Romilly it was the grandfather who was born 1911, father in 1939 :)
Holt Cottages appear to have been in Kimpton. Kimpton Manor was by that time part of the Hoo Estate so another possible?
http://www.kimptonvillage.tsohost.co.uk/history.htm
Jan
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Romilly- the father of the baby was born 1911, the baby was born 1939, from what I can tell.
A Google Search of the Holt Cottages brings up Kimpton, which is next to Hitchin. There is a Kimpton Village website http://www.kimptonvillage.tsohost.co.uk/Groups/history.htm that you could try sending an enquiry to. There is also a Hitchin Historical Society who also may be of use.
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Do you have his birth certificate, does it give an address in Hitchin
Hi were his parents married in 1938 and his mother an Annie E Newton, as I can see a birth in Hitchin mmn Newton
Keyboard86
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Apologies, - I was multi tasking, and read the DOB's too quickly.
Romilly :-)
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all
thank you for the interest - I need to clarify a few points from my badly worded post (apologies)
1. I have called my mother to ask for a copy of my fathers birth certificate but because they were not married i know it is a small certificate, with no information on. I think I need to apply for the PDF of the full copy
2. He was born in 1939 (his father, my grandfather was born 1911) so the princesses would have been quite small.
3. The correct location is Hertfordshire
4. The town was Hitchin
many thanks for the ideas so far! really appreciate your time
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Sadly you won't get a PDF copy for 1939 birth
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Do you have his birth certificate, does it give an address in Hitchin
Hi were his parents married in 1938 and his mother an Annie E Newton, as I can see a birth in Hitchin mmn Newton
Keyboard86
Hi so the William A Brignall marriage in 1938 was not his father?
Keyboard86
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What are the timings, Keyboard? If the marriage was, lets say, Dec 1938 and the birth was January 1939 they could still be ostracised for the illegitimate pregnancy even if the baby was born after the marriage.
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Hi , Yes my understanding is William Andrew (1911 - 1983) was my grandfather (and the father of the child born early 1939 in this context)
And Annie Elizabeth Newton is the right mother. William was 27 and Annie 16 at the time and they were outcast by the family due to the pregnancy
Their Marriage certificate dec 1938 (in Surrey) shows william was a cowman at the time but he had previously been a miner in yorkshire.
My father has told this story of the Big Estate and the princesses many times and i would love to find proof it is true. The 1939 register shows the address as Hitchin, rather than Kimpton.
Thank you for the suggestion of the historical society. I will contact them.
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Hi again, but they were married, just, when he was born?
I would suggest ommiting the name of your father if he is still alive?
Who was the father of Annie Elizabeth Newton and his occupation, William A b 1911 is married/alone with two closed records in Hitchin in 1939, where was Annie E or is she still alive?
OK it looks like Willam Andrew and Annie Elizabeth are in Tamworth West New South Wales in 1980!
Keyboard86
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26 May 1939 - Hertford Mercury and Reformer
The princesses visited their uncle and aunt (Bowes-Lyon) at St Pauls Walden Bury and attended morning service at the church - The king and queen were in Canada at the time. This is article is approx 60 lines long
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The Queen Mother was Scottish,her parents being The Earl and Countess of zStrathmore.
The Duke of York ( later zKing George VI) married Lady Elizabeth Bowes Lyon in April 1924.
I think their home was Glamis Castle.
Viktoria.
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The estate at St Paul Walden Bury has been in the Bowes -Lyon family since the early 1700s .
The nearby pub is the Strathmore Arms.
Tazzie
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Judging by that newspaper article The Princesses were staying with the Bowes Lyons as their parents were out of the country. There was no other reason given for them to have been at the church service.
Before the arrival of the Royal party at St Pauls church on Sunday morning the vicar asked the congregation to regard the occasion as an ordinary country morning service. There was no mention of any christenings taking place but you could confirm the date of your fathers christening from the parish registers.