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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Pearsews on Monday 28 January 19 15:32 GMT (UK)
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Hello everyone, this is my first post.
I have the details of my ancestor Margaret Wilson's baptism at Ballincollig, Ireland in 1859. She was the daughter of William Wilson RA and Mary his wife. Her birth date is given as 20 June 1859.
Please can anyone advise me on how to obtain her birth certificate. As I do not know her mothers maiden name! I cannot progress further back with her family tree.
Any advice would be appreciated.
Pearsews, Scotland
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Don't exist!
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/civil-records/help/what-civil-records-are-on-line
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Hello and Welcome to Rootschat.
Unfortunately birth certs do not exist for such an early birth in Ireland.
Civil registration started in 1864,so the best you will get is a baptism record.
This might help...https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0009
Carol
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If you look through the baptism register, can you tell when the couple started and stopped having children? Most importantly right now, when they started?
Were they Protestant?
Protestant marriages were registered beginning in 1845, so if Protestant, you might find a civil marriage record.
Also, what about a parish marriage record, whatever denomination? How many William Wilsons married a "Mary"? If more than one, can you eliminate the others?
Did the baptism record list a townland - usually in the last column? That could help you id the father, assuming they settled in his townland, not hers.
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Welcome to rootschat :).
Most Ireland RC baptisms do state a mother's maiden name. If the name for the mother on the record is Mary Wilson then she may well have been Mary Wilson before marriage. Where did you get the baptism date from? I can find no baptism of that date on rootsireland.ie but maybe as oldohiohome suggests, they were CoI.
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Most baptisms do state a mother's maiden name. If the name for the mother on the record is Mary Wilson then she may well have been Mary Wilson before marriage. Where did you get the baptism date from? I can find no baptism of that date on rootsireland.ie but maybe as oldohiohome suggests, they were CoI.
And I didn't find one for that date at Ballincollig parish at nli.ie, which are the Catholic records.
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Neither did I - I've just been looking too.
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askaboutireland.ie says that Ballincollig was in Carrigrohane Parish:
http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml?action=doPlaceSearch&Submit.x=31&Submit.y=10&Submit&freetext=Ballincollig&countyname=Cork&baronyname=&unionname=&parishname=Carrigrohane
I looked for William Wilson on Griffith's Valuation in Carrigrohane Parish, hoping to narrow down the parent, but I did not find any Wilsons, including looking for similar names.
http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/
Griffith's was completed in Cork in July 1853, according to Wikipedia.
There were a few William Wilsons elsewhere in Cork.
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Than you so everyone for your rapid replies and suggestions.
Perhaps I should have explained that Margarets father William was in the Royal Artillery. I have details of older and younger children born in various places on a military baptism sheet.
One of Margaret's younger brothers gives his mothers name as Mary Kennedy, but am not sure if she was Williams second wife and not Margarets mother.
I didn't realise there were no birth certificates for the year of her birth.
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Ah I see. What was the age gap between the younger brother & Margaret? And where was he born? Were any of Margaret's older siblings born in England/Wales - where civil registration started in 1837. as you probably know. When was the first child born - this may give a clue as to when William married.
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This looks like the right one in the Regimental Birth Indices. The certificate should be available from GRO in the usual way.
Gro Regimental Birth Indices Supplement (1761 To 1924)
Margaret Wilson
Ballincollig Ireland
429
p142
line 57
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Good find Christine; sadly, as I know to my cost, not all army birth certificates give mother's maiden name :( but definitely worth a try. If Pearsews can give names of siblings they may be found on those army indices too.
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Thank you everyone, can't thank you enough for all the help you have given me.
I have ordered the certificate from the GRO with the reference you gave, and I will let you know if Margarets mothers surname is given. (Hope so!)
If it is the next on the list will be William's marriage, if not will have to try one of Margaret's younger siblings.
Thank you all.
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I am sure I speak for us all in saying 'You're welcome!!'.
Be sure to let us know what the birth certificate says.
Is this the family in 1861 RG 9; Piece: 633; Folio: 96; Page: 3 Portsea Hampshire?
William Wilson 35 gunner Royal Artillery
Mary Wilson 24
Mary A Wilson 7
Eliza J Wilson 5
Allan Wilson 3 [marked as son but name in army baptism register looks like Ellen ???]
Margaret Wilson 2
All born Ireland
All from ancestry - The marriage/baptism register says marriage in Seagoe, Armagh on 17 Sep 1858, but this is a mistranscription from another marriage register which clearly says 17 Sep 1850. This fits in with first child born 1853. Another record states William's father as Mathew Wilson:
Name: William Wilson
Gender: Male
Age: 20
Birth Date: 1830
Marriage Date: 17 Sep 1850
Marriage Place: Seagoe, Arm, Ire
Father: Mathew Wilson
Spouse: Mary Kennedy
FHL Film Number: 101318
Reference ID: 2:3PZMTGC
Marriage is not in Seagoe parish register on https://registers.nli.ie/registers so may have been in CoI church or at barracks.
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Difficult to search Registers as Religion has not been given!
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It appears there is a marriage cert so not RC
Mary
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01nbh/
William
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01nbi/
Image not online yet.
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Hi again,
yes I had seen the records of Williams children on the Royal Artillery sheet. I also noticed a difference between 1850 and 1858 as the marriage and assumed that was a mistake. Hadn't noticed Ellen/Allen though!
Enthused by all the help you lovely people gave me, I found a Civil marriage record of William Wilson and Mary Kenedy (one 'n') in Tamnaficarbet Parish of Seagoe. William is 20 and Mary is 17. Williams occupation is given as a Labourer, and his father a Mathew Wilson, Mary's Father a John Kennedy. Both parents labourers.
So I suppose this means William joined the Royal Artillery afterwards. Unfortunately it seems enlistment details are at the GRO or Kew, and the Royal Artillery depot is relocating and their records cannot be accessed until at least 2020.
Am unable to find either Mathew Wilson or John Kennedy at present.
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PS. Forgot to say the marriage details were from the 'rootsireland' site.
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So I suppose this means William joined the Royal Artillery afterwards. Unfortunately it seems enlistment details are at the GRO or Kew, and the Royal Artillery depot is relocating and their records cannot be accessed until at least 2020.
Many army records have been digitised by findmypast [ancestry's often need an additional subs to fold3] but also many were destroyed
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/pathways/firstworldwar/service_records/sr_soldiers.htm
Am unable to find either Mathew Wilson or John Kennedy at present.
Try looking at Tithe Applotments ca 1825 - 1837
http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/search/tab/home.jsp
and Griffiths
http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/
ADDED: I think you will find both William's & Mary's baptisms on rootsireland.ie if you search with their fathers & year of birth +- 2 yrs.
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Thank you for that information Josey.
I will have look on the rootsireland site for their births, and find my past for the military records. Had a subscription for them which I think is still in date.
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I have looked for William's service record on both main paysites with no success & the baptism/marriage sheets do not give his service number though do state he was discharged in 1876. BTW I have never seen this type of baptism/marriage sheet before & only wish my army ancestors had them!!
I found this old rootschat post about the army in Ballincollig.
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=150422.msg5332718#msg5332718
It gives some WO references which may be worth following up.
I found baptisms on rootsireland for a William Wilson father Matthew mother Eleanor no MMN [CoE] in Ballymartrim, Armagh in 1828 & a mary Kennedy father John mother Mary Vallely [RC] in Cladymore, Armagh in 1835 which look promising but not proven. The ages of Mary [24] & eldest child [7] in 1861 do suggest Mary was very young when she married in 1850.
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Thank you for that Josey, I will follow up on the information on William and also look at the previous post's information about Ballincollig. On the birth of Mary Kennedy, on the Civil Marriage record I have for her in 1850 her age is given as 17, so I suppose she could have been even younger. Still waiting for Margaret Wilson's Birth certificate which could be Monday next week.
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Hello again,
I receives Margaret Wilson's birth certificate from the GRO this morning. Unfortunately it is just a copy of the Royal Artillery record, and does not give any details of her mothers Maiden name. No date of birth either just her baptism date. I guess its back to the records I do have, and follow up again more of the suggestions given by you all.
Incidentally tried to register with ancestryireland.com this morning and could not get past the enter a user name stage. :(