RootsChat.Com

General => The Common Room => Topic started by: valeriet on Thursday 31 January 19 23:46 GMT (UK)

Title: Embezzlement and transportation - right person?
Post by: valeriet on Thursday 31 January 19 23:46 GMT (UK)
I have a puzzle with my 3rd great grandfather William Field Fidler. I have his birthdate as abt 1791 and death 1839. Then there was this record of embezzlement which other ancestry members have attached to him. https://www.oldbaileyonline.org/browse.jsp?div=t18191027-96 BUT....it says that he was sentenced to 14 years transportation which would mean he wasn't around when his children were conceived - which I suppose is possible, even with his name on their records. But it would also mean that he got married and went to court a few months later and that he sadly only had 6 years after coming home before he died. I'm trying to work out if he is the same person or not. I don't know much about transportation, where they would have been sent and whether they would have necessarily come back afterwards....
Title: Re: Embezzlement and transportation - right person?
Post by: Millmoor on Thursday 31 January 19 23:59 GMT (UK)
Suggest you look at the crimInal records for him on FindMyPast. It does not look as though he was transported,"retribution" was made?,sentence reduced to 7 years and he was pardoned in 1825.

William
Title: Re: Embezzlement and transportation - right person?
Post by: Ruskie on Friday 01 February 19 02:57 GMT (UK)
The combination of the names William Field and Fidler don't sound too common. As far as you know is this your ancestors full name? I take it you are checking to see if the online trees are correct in convicting and transporting your William?

Australia might be a good place to start the search.

It is unusual, though not impossible, for someone who was transported to return home after finishing their sentence. Someone will correct me if I am wrong, but I believe they were required to pay their own fare home.

As William said, FindMyPast is fairly good with convict records so it is worth checking there. I know some of the Australian records name family members and wives left behind which would help you confirm if this is your William. I don't have a subscription or I would have a look for you.

Do you know what happened to his wife and children? If you think he returned, did he re-unite with his family? It sounds like his wife "moved on" if she was having children with someone else.

Title: Re: Embezzlement and transportation - right person?
Post by: whiteout7 on Friday 01 February 19 07:48 GMT (UK)
Suggest you look at the crimInal records for him on FindMyPast. It does not look as though he was transported,"retribution" was made?,sentence reduced to 7 years and he was pardoned in 1825.

William

What Millmoor says, if he only served 7 years then went home how does this fit in with the births of his children bearing in mind also that the ages in the census can be up to 5 years out sometimes.
Serving 7 years instead of 14 years did happen.
People did go back to England to once they were freemen.
Title: Re: Embezzlement and transportation - right person?
Post by: whiteout7 on Friday 01 February 19 08:12 GMT (UK)
Were his children born in Middlesex (around London) or Shropshire?

There is another William Fiddler convict who was sentenced in Salop, Shropshire

http://members.iinet.net.au/~perthdps/convicts/con-wa7.html

Amended this one is far to young
Title: Re: Embezzlement and transportation - right person?
Post by: valeriet on Friday 01 February 19 08:26 GMT (UK)
Suggest you look at the crimInal records for him on FindMyPast. It does not look as though he was transported,"retribution" was made?,sentence reduced to 7 years and he was pardoned in 1825.

William

I have only got a membership with ancestry so can't look at the information on Findmypast as yet...I guess I'd have to get the full membership to see it - might be worth it I guess if there's this kind oif extra information that didn't show up on Ancestry. The date of a 1825 release makes sense as his first child was born in 1826 :) Thank you!
Title: Re: Embezzlement and transportation - right person?
Post by: valeriet on Friday 01 February 19 08:30 GMT (UK)
The combination of the names William Field and Fidler don't sound too common. As far as you know is this your ancestors full name? I take it you are checking to see if the online trees are correct in convicting and transporting your William?

Australia might be a good place to start the search.

It is unusual, though not impossible, for someone who was transported to return home after finishing their sentence. Someone will correct me if I am wrong, but I believe they were required to pay their own fare home.

As William said, FindMyPast is fairly good with convict records so it is worth checking there. I know some of the Australian records name family members and wives left behind which would help you confirm if this is your William. I don't have a subscription or I would have a look for you.

Do you know what happened to his wife and children? If you think he returned, did he re-unite with his family? It sounds like his wife "moved on" if she was having children with someone else.

It all looks correct it was just the business of the children being born when he wasn't supposedly with his wife but the release date William suggested fits in perfectly with his children's dates of birth. If he hadn't been released from prison then I wouldn't exist - thank God for him being shown some mercy! :D
Title: Re: Embezzlement and transportation - right person?
Post by: Millmoor on Friday 01 February 19 08:57 GMT (UK)
Having looked at this again I think  the scenario is this. The initial sentence was reduced to seven years. He was then on a prison hulk (ship) called the Retribution.He  is recorded  on a list made by the captain of the hulk, having served 5 years 2 years, as one of sixteen men selected,as a result of good conduct,  "as fit objects for Royal Mercy". He was pardoned 7 Feb 1825.

William
Title: Re: Embezzlement and transportation - right person?
Post by: Millmoor on Friday 01 February 19 09:09 GMT (UK)
Have a look at the prison hulk records on ancestry- he is recorded as both William and Wm Fidler, originally on a prison hulk called Bellerophon  and then the Retribution.

William
Title: Re: Embezzlement and transportation - right person?
Post by: Ruskie on Friday 01 February 19 09:11 GMT (UK)
That all seems to fit in quite nicely time wise. It would still be worth looking for additional records on FindMyPast, unless someone is able to find more about William for you. A convict I was researching requested that his wife be brought to Australia. That request was refused and he eventually went on to marry someone else.

I think you might still be able to get a month subscription to FindMyPast? Or a free two week trial? (Remember to cancel before the two weeks is up or they will charge you for a full annual sub). A lot of libraries also have FindMyPast, so worth some investiagtion.
Title: Re: Embezzlement and transportation - right person?
Post by: valeriet on Friday 01 February 19 10:31 GMT (UK)
Having looked at this again I think  the scenario is this. The initial sentence was reduced to seven years. He was then on a prison hulk (ship) called the Retribution.He  is recorded  on a list made by the captain of the hulk, having served 5 years 2 years, as one of sixteen men selected,as a result of good conduct,  "as fit objects for Royal Mercy". He was pardoned 7 Feb 1825.

William

Thanks William, I found records on ancestry. On 'Retribution' the gaolers report says (looks like) "A remarkable well-behaved man. Nurse in the hospital".
Title: Re: Embezzlement and transportation - right person?
Post by: valeriet on Friday 01 February 19 10:33 GMT (UK)
That all seems to fit in quite nicely time wise. It would still be worth looking for additional records on FindMyPast, unless someone is able to find more about William for you. A convict I was researching requested that his wife be brought to Australia. That request was refused and he eventually went on to marry someone else.

I think you might still be able to get a month subscription to FindMyPast? Or a free two week trial? (Remember to cancel before the two weeks is up or they will charge you for a full annual sub). A lot of libraries also have FindMyPast, so worth some investiagtion.

I'll investigate further - thank you :)