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General => Armed Forces => World War Two => Topic started by: tmusabotf on Thursday 31 January 19 16:26 GMT (UK)
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Can anyone help me out please. My dad was in the eighth army www2. I am trying to help my great niece with a WW2 project for school. They have been asked to give details of any relatives who served in WW2
He was in active service 1939-45 and in Germany in 1946 ( I imagine as a peacekeeper or helping clearing up the mess or maybe dealing with the concentration camps )
I have his soldiers books and I am having a wee bit of trouble working out the abbreviations and I’m looking for help
Mostly re his training which is :-
Radar - Haifa
Attended light ..? course
D.M gas test BARA (I think this was to test the gas masks and recognising different gasses)
Bara ( Italy??)
Tested and passed out as driver d&m (group?) trg ? Wing the rest Is faint but ends with DRA or GRA
Drafted as Doyle? At RATD. CNF
I don’t know what light ? Course it’s/means
Unsure if Bara is Italy but I think it is
Don’t know what trg is and the words after are indecipherable DRA/GRA
Dont know what Doyle means (if it is Doyle)
I presume RATD is Royal Artilliary Territorial Dessert and CNF is Sicily Invasion Force
There’s also mention of RAMF or RHMF (could be Royal Artillery Munitions force or R A Military force ( I think this means he was also a gunner but unsure if it’s ramf or rhmf as writing is blurred
Any help much appreciated
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Can you post the record. It is far better to see the abbreviations in context, similar ones have different meaning in different contexts.
Aa a start
RATD is Royal Artillery Training Depot (there were more than 1)
Light could be attached to anti aircraft as Light Anti Aircraft Regiments or to regiment as Light Regiment and a numb er of other things - context!
D&M is driving and maintenance
CNF is probably CMF Central Mediterranean Force
Bara may be Bari
trg means training.
Much prefer to see the originals
MaxD
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Dear Max,
I’ve tried posting the photo but the file is too big. I’ll retake the photo and adjust the size later and post.
I think a service book or maybe more are missing as the one I have starts around about June 1944, whereas it clearly sets active service from 1939-1944 and mentions 1946. It only mentions Haifa and what I presume Italy re Bara
I did think Bara was an error as I had to land in Bari naval base as an emergency landing when the plane we were on was running out of fuel. However I saw another online document mentioning Bara in Italy.
To be honest i don’t know anything about what he was doing officialy in Israel, Libya, Alexandria, Italy and Germany. However i do know about Rommel, General Montgomery and General Auckinleck in El Alamein and the battle as he briefly spoke about it and them and I have since read about it.
He spoke a little bit about just a few trivial things re his time in Alexandria and Italy during the war (only because I asked) but didn’t speak about the actual war or what they were really doing in any of the countries he was in and i was too young and not interested at the time to ask in depth (busy at school, out playing then work etc). I’m so annoyed with myself because of that. If he was still alive I would be asking everything but perhaps he wouldn’t have told me
However I do know he was an hgv driver re ammunition and troops and I’m sure there was a mention he was a gunner (can’t remember if he mentioned that or if I saw some other papers) and obviously he was dealing with radar in Israel according to the service book.
I have photos of him in Tobruk, Alexandria, El Aldem, Naples and Sennelager in Germany and I have some other field photos in different locations in Libya and Egypt.
He received the Italian star, African star and clasp, the 1939-1945 service medal and a few others.
One of the photos I have is of him and his 3 friends in uniform. I don’t know where it was taken but it appears to be full uniform whereas the others are desert uniforms and a different one in Italy
The photo with his 3 friends is a great photo but sadly he told me he was the only one who came back alive but I don’t know anything about these soldiers (where they were from or their names).
Another official photograph is of him and his comrades in uniform in Alexandria is with some young Egyptian children. I think these children helped the soldiers by running errands or help them navigate locally or maybe they were just exited /inquisitive to see the soldiers. He did say something to me about the children in Cairo but me being only about 14 at the time it’s hard to remember the full story, the only bit I clearly remember was he always shared his food with them as when he came home he always left some of his meal in memory of them (a habit or tradition ). He also learned to speak a little Arabic.
I think he came home Oct 1946 and my dad was injured in Germany and later paralysed very young when home because of that injury.
The injury was not because of enemy fire etc, it was an accident in Germany after the war whereby he was trying to help a friend and he got injured, this led to him being paralysed not long after he got home (blood clots from the injury in Germany and more). Uncanny he survived the whole war bodily intact only for that to happen during peacetime in Germany resulting in a terrible situation when he got home.
Anyway my questions are and would really appreciate if anyone could tell me why they were in/what they were doing in Sennelager Germany that would be great
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Also anything re Haifa, Libya and Cairo and Italy (I’m not asking anyone for their time going into great details just a brief description). El Alamein is well documented so I’m fine with details re that.
Plus if anyone knows where or who I can ask about service books or records can you let me know.
I’ll try and post the photo again later once I’ve resized it re the interpretation of the abbreviations.
Thanks in advance, sorry to ask so much and thanks again Maxd
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Bernie
Against that splendid backgound I'd would dearly love to be able to put specifics. I'll send you my direct email by private message, If you still have bother with the files, feel free to use that route. Photos that show cap badges are the best if you have some of those, everyone wore the same basic uniform so one needs to see distinguishing marks although his file shouild show us that also.
What he was doing very much depends on what unit(s) he was in and what rank he was holding hence the need to look at the whole thing. The places may well then become clear and from that one could relate his service to the wider bigger history picture. Again, Sennelager would also depend on when it was.
See you PM
MaxD
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When in Italy he mentioned being in Naples so I was surprised to see CNF as Sicily. Looks like they landed in Bari, then to Naples then elsewhere. Still having brother with the files. So I’ll send by email
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Update
99% and of things in the soldiers service book have been figured out by MaxD but not all and It appears there are spelling mistakes in his service books. Just need to find out if he was in Haifa or Halfaya
Haifa maybe Halfaya In Egypt as opposed to Haifa in Israel ( he never told me he was in Israel but he was definitely in Egypt)
Bara is BDRA ( British Depot Royal Artillery)
Draft tested as Doyle maybe Darge or Barge At RATD (Royal Artillery Ttaining Depot) Its CMF (central Mediterranean Force) not CNF (Sicily invasion force) however my dad was in Italy. I have photos of him in uniform there and a few personal stories.
I also have field photos in Tripoli, Tobruk, El Adem and the Sollum Pass and I’m sure I have photos in El Alamein but I’ll need to dig them out
Just updating in case anyone else is investigating their ancestor.
All of this information has been confirmed by Maxd who has been absolutely brilliant. ( the best)