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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Down => Topic started by: moffitts on Tuesday 05 February 19 20:27 GMT (UK)

Title: Information Patrick Cole (b. abt 1863) Mary Cole (b. abt 1876)
Post by: moffitts on Tuesday 05 February 19 20:27 GMT (UK)
I am looking for more information regarding these individuals and their parents.  I have found them in the Ireland 1901 and 1911 census (below).  Patrick's wikitree profile is also below.

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search/results.jsp?searchMoreVisible=false&census_year=1911&surname=cole&firstname=patrick&county19011911=&county1821=&county1831=&county1841=&county1851=&barony=&parish=&ward=&townland=&houseNumber=&familyId=&ded=&age=&sex=&search=Search&ageInMonths=&relationToHead=&religion=&education=&occupation=&marriageStatus=&yearsMarried=&birthplace=&nativeCountry=&language=&deafdumb=&causeOfDeath=&yearOfDeath=&familiesNumber=&malesNumber=&femalesNumber=&maleServNumber=&femaleServNumber=&estChurchNumber=&romanCatNumber=&presbNumber=&protNumber=&marriageYears=&childrenBorn=&childrenLiving=

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Cole-18370
Title: Re: Information Patrick Cole (b. abt 1863) Mary Cole (b. abt 1876)
Post by: hallmark on Tuesday 05 February 19 20:58 GMT (UK)
Which of the 42 Coles on your Census link are you talking about?
Title: Re: Information Patrick Cole (b. abt 1863) Mary Cole (b. abt 1876)
Post by: moffitts on Tuesday 05 February 19 21:01 GMT (UK)
Sorry I thought the link would take you directly to the page I had open.  It is:
Cole Patrick, age 49, Water St, Rosstrevor, Down. For the 1911 Census.
Title: Re: Information Patrick Cole (b. abt 1863) Mary Cole (b. abt 1876)
Post by: hallmark on Tuesday 05 February 19 21:04 GMT (UK)
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Down/Rosstrevor/Water_Street/246622/
Title: Re: Information Patrick Cole (b. abt 1863) Mary Cole (b. abt 1876)
Post by: moffitts on Tuesday 05 February 19 21:05 GMT (UK)
Yes, that is the correct entry.
Title: Re: Information Patrick Cole (b. abt 1863) Mary Cole (b. abt 1876)
Post by: hallmark on Tuesday 05 February 19 21:06 GMT (UK)
https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0450 Kilbroney
Title: Re: Information Patrick Cole (b. abt 1863) Mary Cole (b. abt 1876)
Post by: hallmark on Tuesday 05 February 19 21:09 GMT (UK)
He's 20 yrs Married with 11 children.

Wife Mary is 12 yrs married with 7 children.
Title: Re: Information Patrick Cole (b. abt 1863) Mary Cole (b. abt 1876)
Post by: moffitts on Tuesday 05 February 19 21:11 GMT (UK)
Was there something in the NLI link you sent? 

Also yes, I saw that.  However if you look below the listed individuals you can open the actual document and it looks like value next to his was marked out. 
Title: Re: Information Patrick Cole (b. abt 1863) Mary Cole (b. abt 1876)
Post by: hallmark on Tuesday 05 February 19 21:19 GMT (UK)
They were RC and the link is to RC Church Register!
Title: Re: Information Patrick Cole (b. abt 1863) Mary Cole (b. abt 1876)
Post by: aghadowey on Tuesday 05 February 19 21:22 GMT (UK)
Was there something in the NLI link you sent? 

Also yes, I saw that.  However if you look below the listed individuals you can open the actual document and it looks like value next to his was marked out. 

Do you mean the first line in the 1911 census? if so, the answer is simple as the questions about how many years married, how many children and how many children living were to be filled out by married women, not their husbands.
Title: Re: Information Patrick Cole (b. abt 1863) Mary Cole (b. abt 1876)
Post by: moffitts on Tuesday 05 February 19 21:25 GMT (UK)
Do you know if their are RC records after 1881?  They had their first child in 1893 I believe, so I would assume their marriage date is closer to that. 
Title: Re: Information Patrick Cole (b. abt 1863) Mary Cole (b. abt 1876)
Post by: hallmark on Tuesday 05 February 19 21:26 GMT (UK)
Party 1 Name   PATRICK COLE (widower) 
Party 2 Name   MARY FEGAN
Date of Event   22 November 1898

 https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1898/10433/5798946.pdf
Title: Re: Information Patrick Cole (b. abt 1863) Mary Cole (b. abt 1876)
Post by: hallmark on Tuesday 05 February 19 21:30 GMT (UK)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1898/10433/5798946.pdf

Party 1 Name   PATRICK COLE
Party 2 Name   MARGARET BRENNAN
Date of Event   20 January 1891


also son of Henry!
Title: Re: Information Patrick Cole (b. abt 1863) Mary Cole (b. abt 1876)
Post by: moffitts on Tuesday 05 February 19 21:32 GMT (UK)
So I wonder if he was married to Mary Brennan and then married Married Mary Fegan. Now I wonder which children belong with who!
Title: Re: Information Patrick Cole (b. abt 1863) Mary Cole (b. abt 1876)
Post by: hallmark on Tuesday 05 February 19 21:33 GMT (UK)
sorry..

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1891/10657/5883005.pdf


Party 1 Name   PATRICK COLE
Party 2 Name   MARGARET BRENNAN
Date of Event   20 January 1891


also son of Henry!
Title: Re: Information Patrick Cole (b. abt 1863) Mary Cole (b. abt 1876)
Post by: hallmark on Tuesday 05 February 19 21:35 GMT (UK)
So I wonder if he was married to Mary Brennan and then married Married Mary Fegan. Now I wonder which children belong with who!


By their age on census?
Title: Re: Information Patrick Cole (b. abt 1863) Mary Cole (b. abt 1876)
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Tuesday 05 February 19 21:39 GMT (UK)
So I wonder if he was married to Mary Brennan and then married Married Mary Fegan. Now I wonder which children belong with who!


By their age on census?

The first 3 children on the 1911 census belong to Margaret. The following 7 beginning Alice belong to Mary.

KG
Title: Re: Information Patrick Cole (b. abt 1863) Mary Cole (b. abt 1876)
Post by: hallmark on Tuesday 05 February 19 21:41 GMT (UK)
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ncu/  gets you the birth registrations...

e.g. 

 Birth of JOHN COLE on 17 March 1916
Group Registration ID   46542
SR District/Reg Area   Kilkeel
Sex   Male
Mother's Birth Surname   FEGAN

and

 Birth of KATHLEEN COLE on 08 July 1913
Group Registration ID   1245143
SR District/Reg Area   Kilkeel
Sex   Female
Mother's Birth Surname   FEGAN
Title: Re: Information Patrick Cole (b. abt 1863) Mary Cole (b. abt 1876)
Post by: hallmark on Tuesday 05 February 19 21:44 GMT (UK)
So I wonder if he was married to Mary Brennan and then married Married Mary Fegan. Now I wonder which children belong with who!


By their age on census?

The first 3 children on the 1911 census belong to Margaret. The following 7 beginning Alice belong to Mary.

KG



He's 20 yrs Married with 11 children....so probably 4 from 1st Marriage.

You can check via Link already posted.
Title: Re: Information Patrick Cole (b. abt 1863) Mary Cole (b. abt 1876)
Post by: hallmark on Tuesday 05 February 19 21:45 GMT (UK)
TheLinks is for C Reg Birth results for Cole of Kilkeel from 1893 to 1916
Title: Re: Information Patrick Cole (b. abt 1863) Mary Cole (b. abt 1876)
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Tuesday 05 February 19 21:49 GMT (UK)
Mary Josephine Margaret Cole born 1896.

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1896/02154/1816933.pdf

KG
Title: Re: Information Patrick Cole (b. abt 1863) Mary Cole (b. abt 1876)
Post by: moffitts on Tuesday 05 February 19 22:34 GMT (UK)
So Mary Fegan is listed as the mother since they were married before the 1901 census would have come out.  Margaret Brennan must have died prior?
Title: Re: Information Patrick Cole (b. abt 1863) Mary Cole (b. abt 1876)
Post by: hallmark on Tuesday 05 February 19 23:19 GMT (UK)
As per previous post.....


Party 1 Name   PATRICK COLE (widower)
Party 2 Name   MARY FEGAN
Date of Event   22 November 1898
Title: Re: Information Patrick Cole (b. abt 1863) Mary Cole (b. abt 1876)
Post by: hallmark on Tuesday 05 February 19 23:25 GMT (UK)
So Mary Fegan is listed as the mother since they were married before the 1901 census would have come out.  Margaret Brennan must have died prior?


Irish records are easy enough to search, try this search


m
Title: Re: Information Patrick Cole (b. abt 1863) Mary Cole (b. abt 1876)
Post by: hallmark on Tuesday 05 February 19 23:27 GMT (UK)
Sorry....just change Year Range!!
Title: Re: Information Patrick Cole (b. abt 1863) Mary Cole (b. abt 1876)
Post by: hallmark on Tuesday 05 February 19 23:30 GMT (UK)
Image of Cert is online....


Name   MARGARET COLE
Date of Death   1898
Group Registration ID   3560348
SR District/Reg Area   Kilkeel
Deceased Age at Death   26
Title: Re: Information Patrick Cole (b. abt 1863) Mary Cole (b. abt 1876)
Post by: hallmark on Tuesday 05 February 19 23:36 GMT (UK)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/civil-search.jsp
Title: Re: Information Patrick Cole (b. abt 1863) Mary Cole (b. abt 1876)
Post by: hallmark on Tuesday 05 February 19 23:43 GMT (UK)
Now that you know his father's name you can search for Birth...

Same for wives.....adjust search accordingly.



m
Title: Re: Information Patrick Cole (b. abt 1863) Mary Cole (b. abt 1876)
Post by: hallmark on Tuesday 05 February 19 23:45 GMT (UK)
If you remove Patrick's name and leave box blank you might find Siblings
Title: Re: Information Patrick Cole (b. abt 1863) Mary Cole (b. abt 1876)
Post by: hallmark on Tuesday 05 February 19 23:51 GMT (UK)
Marriage of HENRY COLE in 1868 looks a good possible but Image not online yet.....
Title: Re: Information Patrick Cole (b. abt 1863) Mary Cole (b. abt 1876)
Post by: hallmark on Wednesday 06 February 19 00:00 GMT (UK)
Marriage of HENRY COLE in 1868 looks a good possible but Image not online yet.....


Probably too late...but you can browse register.
Title: Re: Information Patrick Cole (b. abt 1863) Mary Cole (b. abt 1876)
Post by: moffitts on Wednesday 06 February 19 00:00 GMT (UK)
Yes, all of this information opened a whole new door.  Thank  you!
Title: Re: Information Patrick Cole (b. abt 1863) Mary Cole (b. abt 1876)
Post by: hallmark on Wednesday 06 February 19 00:04 GMT (UK)
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633279#page/43/mode/1up

last one on left page!
Title: Re: Information Patrick Cole (b. abt 1863) Mary Cole (b. abt 1876)
Post by: hallmark on Wednesday 06 February 19 00:10 GMT (UK)
I could post Link after Link but it is far more rewarding for person looking to be able to find records for themselves and it is really quite easy after a while and one can then look for siblings of grooms/brides etc if they wish to expand their lines...


...and there is always here when one gets stuck! 
Title: Re: Information Patrick Cole (b. abt 1863) Mary Cole (b. abt 1876)
Post by: moffitts on Wednesday 06 February 19 01:41 GMT (UK)
That is where I am at on the Patrick Fegan post you posted on.  I have been trying to find something on him. 

His wife's name is Mary, and his granddaughter believes that her maiden name was McClurry?
Title: Re: Information Patrick Cole (b. abt 1863) Mary Cole (b. abt 1876)
Post by: hallmark on Wednesday 06 February 19 08:39 GMT (UK)
OK.


I did post 2 Marriage Certs. where groom is son of Henry,  a Carpenter.... which tallies with Census details.
Title: Re: Information Patrick Cole (b. abt 1863) Mary Cole (b. abt 1876)
Post by: hallmark on Wednesday 06 February 19 08:49 GMT (UK)
Did you notice on his 2nd Marriage the entry above is the Marriage of his older sister?
Title: Re: Information Patrick Cole (b. abt 1863) Mary Cole (b. abt 1876)
Post by: hallmark on Wednesday 06 February 19 08:51 GMT (UK)
Sister is in Church Reg also

 https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633279#page/39/mode/1up last one on right page...

there may be other siblings!!
Title: Re: Information Patrick Cole (b. abt 1863) Mary Cole (b. abt 1876)
Post by: hallmark on Wednesday 06 February 19 09:06 GMT (UK)
One could post Link after Link but it is far more rewarding for person looking to be able to find records for themselves and it is really quite easy after a while and one can then look for siblings of grooms/brides etc if they wish to expand their lines.

One will never learn how to research Irish records if link after link after link is posted for them.....


His granddaughter believes that Mary's maiden name was McClurry.... has she looked at the details on the 2 Marriage Certs and compared them to each other??
Title: Re: Information Patrick Cole (b. abt 1863) Mary Cole (b. abt 1876)
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Wednesday 06 February 19 09:42 GMT (UK)

Name   ELIZABETH COLE
Date of Death   1898
Group Registration ID   3556731
SR District/Reg Area   Kilkeel
Deceased Age at Death   0
Record #453

Just above is the death of her mother Margaret. The informant in both cases is Bridget McCormick of Rostrevor.

KG
Title: Re: Information Patrick Cole (b. abt 1863) Mary Cole (b. abt 1876)
Post by: hallmark on Wednesday 06 February 19 10:05 GMT (UK)
As you can see, child was premature!

It can be found by doing the search in Reply#33
Title: Re: Information Patrick Cole (b. abt 1863) Mary Cole (b. abt 1876)
Post by: hallmark on Wednesday 06 February 19 10:07 GMT (UK)
Grrr.... ;D 
It can be found by doing the search in Reply#23
Title: Re: Information Patrick Cole (b. abt 1863) Mary Cole (b. abt 1876)
Post by: hallmark on Wednesday 06 February 19 10:16 GMT (UK)
C Reg

Birth results for Cole of Kilkeel from 1864 to 1922  http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ncw/

Marriage results for Cole of Kilkeel from 1864 to 1922  http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ncx/

Death results for Cole of Kilkeel from 1864 to 1922   http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ncy/


Plus, you have the Link to Church Registers to go further back!

https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/civil-records/help/what-civil-records-are-on-line


After Northern Ireland came into being, records will not be on irishgenealogy site for BDM's in NI!