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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Yorkshire (East Riding & York) => England => Yorkshire (East Riding & York) Lookup Requests => Topic started by: linney2019 on Thursday 07 February 19 23:03 GMT (UK)

Title: Trying to trace the history of my Great Uncle (Charles William Olsen) Hull
Post by: linney2019 on Thursday 07 February 19 23:03 GMT (UK)
I am trying to discover what happened to my Uncle (Charles William Olsen) born in Sculcoates in 1910. His mother, my paternal Grandma was Mary Jane Olsen (formerly Thackray), born in Dublin in Ireland in 1891 and his father was also called Charles William Olsen, born around 1887. They both appear to have been from Hull families. All three appear on the 1911 census. At that time they resided at 6 1/2 Walker Square, Sykes Street. Charles was 10/12 months. Some time after that, it seems that they separated (Between 1911-1915) My father John Joseph Sissons was born in 1915 at 8 Warneford Terrace, Hull but I cannot find the whereabouts of Mary Jane's older son, Charles William Olsen who when John Joseph was born, would have been five. Any suggestions as to where we could look would be most welcome as we have exhausted all the avenues we are familiar with i.e. 1911 Census and Electoral Registers that are available to us. We have been to Carnegie, Hull History Centre and the Library but as yet, cannot place him at that time at all. We have found a Charles William Olsen born 1910, who died at seventy in 1980 but we are completely unable to verify that we have the correct Charles William Olsen. Many thanks for any advice anyone is able to give. linney2019

 
Title: Re: Trying to trace the history of my Great Uncle (Charles William Olsen) Hull
Post by: avm228 on Thursday 07 February 19 23:19 GMT (UK)
Related thread here:

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=807951.msg6672000#msg6672000

Have you seen that a Charles William Olsen and a Sarah Elizabeth had a son Charles baptised at Christ Church, Hull in 1914?  I wonder whether this was the Charles who was lawfully married to Mary?
Title: Re: Trying to trace the history of my Great Uncle (Charles William Olsen) Hull
Post by: avm228 on Thursday 07 February 19 23:21 GMT (UK)
The obvious course for young Charles William would be to obtain his birth certificate or the pdf equivalent (before the price rises later this month) and see whether his birthdate matches that on the 1980 death, namely 18 May 1910.
Title: Re: Trying to trace the history of my Great Uncle (Charles William Olsen) Hull
Post by: linney2019 on Friday 08 February 19 00:04 GMT (UK)
Hello avm228, Thank you so much for the replies you have sent to both my questions. I cannot believe what you have found. Forgive me, I am new to this site and trying to work out how to answer you very kind people who have taken the time to find this for me. I will try to answer the other one too, but still trying to work out where to answer as still reading them.

Many, many thanks,
linney2019
Title: Re: Trying to trace the history of my Great Uncle (Charles William Olsen) Hull
Post by: avm228 on Friday 08 February 19 00:25 GMT (UK)
Donít worry, youíre doing just fine :)
Title: Re: Trying to trace the history of my Great Uncle (Charles William Olsen) Hull
Post by: linney2019 on Friday 08 February 19 01:12 GMT (UK)
Hi avm22 again,
Reckon you will be in bed now, but hopefully you will see this tomorrow:
The Charles Wm. that you are talking about is probably the one born in 1913. This baffled us because we think that Charles William Olsen had two sons - the first one Charles William born 1910
to Mary Jane Olsen and the second Charles William (again) 1913 to Stephenson/Mace.
We cannot find the elder one who is definitely my Dad's half brother. Wondering what happened to him when Charles Wm. and Mary Jane separated. He had to have gone with Mary Jane or stayed with his father................Would have been three years old when the second Charles Wm. was born.
Thanks again, linney2019
Title: Re: Trying to trace the history of my Great Uncle (Charles William Olsen) Hull
Post by: amondg on Friday 08 February 19 07:15 GMT (UK)
The 1913 Charles Olsen with mothers maiden name Mace was registered only as Charles not Charles William.

Did he go and live with his grandparents some men wouldn't want anothers child to support.
Title: Re: Trying to trace the history of my Great Uncle (Charles William Olsen) Hull
Post by: linney2019 on Friday 08 February 19 09:24 GMT (UK)
Hi amondg,
Thank you for replying. My daughter and I have thought about that and it's certainly a possibility. I would like to think that Charles Olsen (Birth 1910) left with his mother, but of course we don't know this or if stayed with his father but his name doesn't seem to crop up with his father, Charles William Olsen (Born 1887) who of course, went on to live with and eventually marry Stevenson/Mace. We cannot find any documentation on him as a child. To complicate matters, his father, Charles Olsen Snr. and E. Mace gave their son the same name - Charles Olsen Born 1913! My father certainly was not in touch, nor did he mention his half-brother, Charles, whereas he was definitely in touch with his brother, James William Sissons. I think he must have known about him - but then Dad never ever uttered a word about his childhood or family at all - ever, so I always knew it was an unhappy one. Thanks again amondg, for your help, linney2019
Title: Re: Trying to trace the history of my Great Uncle (Charles William Olsen) Hull
Post by: avm228 on Friday 08 February 19 09:31 GMT (UK)
As I mentioned earlier, the 1910 birth certificate would tell you the exact birthdate so you could rule the 1980 death in or out.  If it's him, the death certificate in turn might help fill in the gaps (especially if a wife or child was the informant of his death).
Title: Re: Trying to trace the history of my Great Uncle (Charles William Olsen) Hull
Post by: linney2019 on Friday 08 February 19 13:01 GMT (UK)
Hi avm228,
Hope I am answering this in the correct place - learning the site! Thank you for responding again and yes, good idea to get Charles Olsen (1910) Birth Certificate. Hadn't done this as very unsure as to him being the correct Charles. Chances are that he is though and if it is him, then I have found Dad's half brother. I now know there are others on Samuel Sissons side (from lawful wife) so have more to get. I made the mistake back in 2010 of buying Birth Certificates etc. before I had properly verified Samuel Sissons (not Charles Olsen) and it seems that down to that, I have Birth Certificates from people that are actually unrelated - hence I am rather careful nowadays!
Thanks again avm228 for your help - You have already given me some eye-opening information on my dad's life.  linney2019
Title: Re: Trying to trace the history of my Great Uncle (Charles William Olsen) Hull
Post by: avm228 on Friday 08 February 19 13:46 GMT (UK)
PDF birth certificates (not technically certificates, but the same thing for present purposes) can be ordered from the GRO Online for £6, but the price goes up to £7 each on 16 February.
Title: Re: Trying to trace the history of my Great Uncle (Charles William Olsen) Hull
Post by: Treetotal on Friday 08 February 19 14:10 GMT (UK)
Hi Linney...Not sure if you have seen this Gravestone but posting anyway:


https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/137602803


Most likely one of theses found on Freebmd:


Deaths Dec 1931   
Olsen    Charles W    44    Sculcoates    9d   211    
Deaths Jun 1953   
OLSEN    Charles W    69    Holderness    2a   96   

This is from a private tree on Ancestry:

Charles William Olsen
Birth   
1910 6 1/2 Walton Square, Sykes Street, Hull; Birth Certificate
 


Carol



Title: Re: Trying to trace the history of my Great Uncle (Charles William Olsen) Hull
Post by: avm228 on Friday 08 February 19 14:26 GMT (UK)
The grave is (according to its inscription) for the Charles who died in 1953 aged 69.  It also seems to have Arthur Muir Bruce and Agnes Bruce on it, which may help to pin down who that Charles was
Title: Re: Trying to trace the history of my Great Uncle (Charles William Olsen) Hull
Post by: avm228 on Friday 08 February 19 14:29 GMT (UK)
The grave is (according to its inscription) for the Charles who died in 1953 aged 69.  It also seems to have Arthur Muir Bruce and Agnes Bruce on it, which may help to pin down who that Charles was

This Charles was of 40 Victoria Ave, Hull, and admin of his estate was granted to Henry William Olsen, company director.
Title: Re: Trying to trace the history of my Great Uncle (Charles William Olsen) Hull
Post by: Treetotal on Friday 08 February 19 14:48 GMT (UK)
Nice work Avm......the 1953 date is hard to make out  ::).....it could be the 1931 death, that would explain why I can't see him on the 1939 register.

Added:

Not the 1931 death as he was age 44 years

Carol
Title: Re: Trying to trace the history of my Great Uncle (Charles William Olsen) Hull
Post by: Sc00p on Friday 08 February 19 15:25 GMT (UK)
On the baptism record of Charles William Olsen b 1910 (f. Charles William m. Mary Jane abode 6 1/2 Walker Sq, Sykes St), the vicar helpfully included a birth date of 18 May 1910.  That exactly matches the birth date given on the 1980 Durham death registration.
Title: Re: Trying to trace the history of my Great Uncle (Charles William Olsen) Hull
Post by: avm228 on Friday 08 February 19 19:46 GMT (UK)
On the baptism record of Charles William Olsen b 1910 (f. Charles William m. Mary Jane abode 6 1/2 Walker Sq, Sykes St), the vicar helpfully included a birth date of 18 May 1910.  That exactly matches the birth date given on the 1980 Durham death registration.

Thatís excellent  :)
Title: Re: Trying to trace the history of my Great Uncle (Charles William Olsen) Hull
Post by: Treetotal on Friday 08 February 19 20:00 GMT (UK)
Ditto.....Result  ;D
Carol
Title: Re: Trying to trace the history of my Great Uncle (Charles William Olsen) Hull
Post by: linney2019 on Saturday 09 February 19 00:30 GMT (UK)
Good evening avm228, Treetotal, ScOOp,
My daughter and I have just come in from a family party to celebrate my nephew going to Australia and we thought we would catch up. We are overwhelmed at the help you have all given us - and sincerely hope that we can help other users! We will of course, try once we get used to the site!
The gravestone in the Northern Cemetary is actually saved in our files, but again, we dare not include it as we couldn't read the inscription and could not validate it. We had the date of death for Charles Wm Olsen (B.1910) as 1980 but were not sure this was the right Charles Olsen, so you have clarified it for us and again, many thanks. We are trying to find out if he married and had a family and we now have a little more to go on - at least we know who we are looking for.
Again, thank you, linney2019

Title: Re: Trying to trace the history of my Great Uncle (Charles William Olsen) Hull
Post by: Treetotal on Saturday 09 February 19 15:18 GMT (UK)
I just thought that you would like to know that I am a volunteer at The Carnegie Heritage Centre in Hull so I may have seen you  when you visited  :D
Carol
Title: Re: Trying to trace the history of my Great Uncle (Charles William Olsen) Hull
Post by: linney2019 on Saturday 09 February 19 23:53 GMT (UK)
Hello Treetotal,
Yes - We both remember you - I definitely do as you showed me this site and told me you were a volunteer. We were bowled over with Carnegie and all the help from the volunteers. Really kind people. Anyway I think you have probably realised who we are too! We are hoping to visit again on Tuesday. One of the things we are hoping to do is perhaps see if we can find the actual whereabouts of Mary Jane Olsen and her son, Charles Olsen who was born 1910 - after the Census of 1911. Just cannot find them at all. Mary Jane Olsen of course, died 1923 but as for her eldest son, (dad's half brother) - well, we have looked all over and he has disappeared - until his death which we think is in Durham 1980. Sorry, I am telling lies - we have now also found his Baptism - 1st June 1910 St. Philips, Hull. Does anyone have any suggestions as to where we should have looked and haven't???
linney2019
Title: Re: Trying to trace the history of my Great Uncle (Charles William Olsen) Hull
Post by: avm228 on Sunday 10 February 19 00:03 GMT (UK)
As I mentioned before, you could get the 1980 death certificate in case the informant was his wife, son or daughter?
Title: Re: Trying to trace the history of my Great Uncle (Charles William Olsen) Hull
Post by: linney2019 on Sunday 10 February 19 00:20 GMT (UK)
Hi avm228,
Yes, we are going to do that first thing on Monday as it seems that there is simply no other way of finding him. You would think though wouldn't you that he would appear on one of the Registers, Marriages, even the 1939 Register! But no - nothing, as I say until he passes away. His half brother, (again Charles Olsen) has been traceable and does appear! Strange.

Again, thanks for replying avm228,
linney2019
Title: Re: Trying to trace the history of my Great Uncle (Charles William Olsen) Hull
Post by: Treetotal on Sunday 10 February 19 17:02 GMT (UK)
Hello Treetotal,
Yes - We both remember you - I definitely do as you showed me this site and told me you were a volunteer. We were bowled over with Carnegie and all the help from the volunteers. Really kind people. Anyway I think you have probably realised who we are too! We are hoping to visit again on Tuesday. One of the things we are hoping to do is perhaps see if we can find the actual whereabouts of Mary Jane Olsen and her son, Charles Olsen who was born 1910 - after the Census of 1911. Just cannot find them at all. Mary Jane Olsen of course, died 1923 but as for her eldest son, (dad's half brother) - well, we have looked all over and he has disappeared - until his death which we think is in Durham 1980. Sorry, I am telling lies - we have now also found his Baptism - 1st June 1910 St. Philips, Hull. Does anyone have any suggestions as to where we should have looked and haven't???
linney2019

Hi Linney, I thought it was you but wasn't sure. It doesn't help your search but I found the probate for Charles senior but you may already have it.

Olsen, Charles William of 40, Victoria Avenue Kingston upon Hull died 23rd June, 1953 at De La Pole Hospital, Willerby. Administration London 8th April to Henry William Olsen, Company Director. Effects: £3,738 5s 10d

Carol
Title: Re: Trying to trace the history of my Great Uncle (Charles William Olsen) Hull
Post by: linney2019 on Sunday 10 February 19 17:36 GMT (UK)
Thank you Carol for looking,
This is so complicated and is the wrong Charles Olsen - I will explain:
1 Charles Wm. Olsen B. 1887 Married Mary Jane Thackray 1910
2 Charles Wm. Olsen B. 1910 Their eldest son (Charles and Mary Jane separated at some point)

Charles Wm. Olsen B. 1887 living with Sarah Elizabeth Mace (Stephenson ) then has a second son and calls him Charles Olsen  also so this is:
3 Charles Olsen B. 1913
This is the one that you have written to me about (1913) It's driving us mad - It is the one that was born in 1910 that we cannot trace, other than he died in 1980. We really don't know what to do and have spent ages trying to sort this out and your efforts are very much appreciated.
linney2019
Title: Re: Trying to trace the history of my Great Uncle (Charles William Olsen) Hull
Post by: avm228 on Sunday 10 February 19 20:41 GMT (UK)
Actually I think the 1953 death and probate are for a fourth Charles, probably unrelated to the other three.

He was 69 at death in 1953, so born about 1884.
Title: Re: Trying to trace the history of my Great Uncle (Charles William Olsen) Hull
Post by: linney2019 on Sunday 10 February 19 22:06 GMT (UK)
It gets more and more complicated - I don't know who is to blame for calling them all Charles Olsen, but it's caused a major headache! Prior to Charles William Number 2 as we knew him (the one that Mary Jane Thackray, my Grandmother was married to in 1910) we also found that his father was called Charles William Olsen - in our "shoe box" as Charles Wm. No. 1 - then of course, there was Charles Wm. No. 3 born 1910, and No. 4, born 1913. I reckon there must be loads more........ and all probably in Hull.
Anyway, the one you are talking about has really thrown a spanner in to the works as the age does not match up to the one that was born in Hull (No. 4) so where does that leave us.................
Anything else you can think of would be brilliant,
Thanks Carol,   linney2019
Title: Re: Trying to trace the history of my Great Uncle (Charles William Olsen) Hull
Post by: Treetotal on Saturday 23 February 19 16:54 GMT (UK)
Hi Linney....I wondered if you had sent for the 1980 death Certificate?

I wonder if he left Hull and went to sea or joined the army after his Mother died and that's why he doesn't show up on the 1939 register?

Did he change his name to Thackray or Sissons?

Did any of the Thackray family take him in?

Was he adopted?
 

Other related posts:

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=808267.0


https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=808272.0


Carol



Title: Re: Trying to trace the history of my Great Uncle (Charles William Olsen) Hull
Post by: linney2019 on Saturday 23 February 19 22:11 GMT (UK)
Hello Carol,
It is lovely to hear from you and Samantha and the reason you didn't see us last week was that we weren't getting anywhere in that direction - but well another - on Mum's side, we have. We have found Mum's family in Ohio, Cleveland and it is a revelation for us - and for them. I will explain more when we see you, which we will. It is very exciting as Mum's Grandmother was widowed when young. She remarried and with her new husband, took her youngest daughters and moved to America. My Grandma could not go as she was older and married. Anyway, with regard to Charles William Olsen - we had wondered if he had gone to sea - or in fact, gone abroad and had intended to check passenger lists - but will take a while, unless it is indeed 1923 - the year she died - he would have been thirteen/fourteen. Definitely worth checking out though. Thank you Carol and if you do come up with any other ideas - we'd love to hear and we will definitely see you in Hull soon. Lynne and Samantha
Title: Re: Trying to trace the history of my Great Uncle (Charles William Olsen) Hull
Post by: Treetotal on Saturday 23 February 19 22:19 GMT (UK)
Hi Lynne and Samantha....that must have been a real thrill for you both. I look forward to hearing all about it next week.
Carol