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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Lanarkshire => Topic started by: Bertsbees on Friday 08 February 19 00:52 GMT (UK)

Title: the John McArthur family in Lanarkshire
Post by: Bertsbees on Friday 08 February 19 00:52 GMT (UK)
Hello , I am trying to find the birth/baptism records of John McArthur (jr) born abt 1841, and his brother , William ,born abt 1845.  Their parents were John McArthur and Isabella Campbell, formerly of Lochwinnoch .  In 1848 the family left Scotland via Glasgow for the USA. The father John was a cotton spinner, and may have lived on George St.  I found their other brothers  George and Robert, but unable to come up with anything on John jr and William. 
   Any help would be appreciated .    Bert
     
Title: Re: the John McArthur family in Lanarkshire
Post by: Rosinish on Friday 08 February 19 01:02 GMT (UK)
"I found their other brothers  George and Robert"

Can you give us dates/place of birth please?

Annie
Title: Re: the John McArthur family in Lanarkshire
Post by: Bertsbees on Friday 08 February 19 01:13 GMT (UK)
George  was baptised in Lochwinnoch on  Oct 28 1834, and William was also baptised in Lochwinnoch  on November 22, 1837.     It appears that the family moved to Barony Lanarkshire before the other two brothers were born.  thats all I could find.  Thanks for your help Annie,     Bert
Title: Re: the John McArthur family in Lanarkshire
Post by: Rosinish on Friday 08 February 19 01:38 GMT (UK)
There's this but no forename & no mother's name recorded?

MCARTHUR -----
JOHN MCARTHUR/
06/02/1839
644/1 550 156 Glasgow

It may be damaged/not yours?

Not all births/baptisms were recorded pre 1855 & of the ones which were, many are illegible/damaged/not survived.

Annie
Title: Re: the John McArthur family in Lanarkshire
Post by: Bertsbees on Friday 08 February 19 02:51 GMT (UK)
Hi Annie,   I double checked on the census that were taken in the US and in 1870 his birth date was estimated as 1839 to 1840 , which would jive with the record you found, but in the 1880, 1890, and 1900 he gave his estimated birth as Jan 1942.   So its anybody's guess.
    In the record you found what does " 644/1 550 156 Glasgow"  denote?   any idea
thanks so much for your help,     Bert
Title: Re: the John McArthur family in Lanarkshire
Post by: Forfarian on Friday 08 February 19 10:13 GMT (UK)
what does 644/1 550 156 Glasgow"  denote?
It's the reference number that locates the actual record.

644 is the number of Glasgow parish.
550 is the number of the book and 156 is the page.
Title: Re: the John McArthur family in Lanarkshire
Post by: MonicaL on Friday 08 February 19 14:40 GMT (UK)
Some background details here to help with any new searches www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=807634.0

Also www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=807960.0

Monica
Title: Re: the John McArthur family in Lanarkshire
Post by: Rosinish on Saturday 09 February 19 23:57 GMT (UK)
I double checked on the census that were taken in the US and in 1870 his birth date was estimated as 1839 to 1840 , which would jive with the record you found

Looking at the original image may help if sponsors are listed & can be identified?

Annie
Title: Re: the John McArthur family in Lanarkshire
Post by: Bertsbees on Sunday 10 February 19 23:02 GMT (UK)
I found that John Macarthur lived on George St , Barony in 1841.  Does any body know if that area of town would have been tenement houses  ( like High St was back then).  He worked as a cotton spinner in one of the mills in East Glasgow.   The photos available of High St were real eye openers for me! 
    The census didnt say the number or the cross street on George, so its hard to pinpoint his location.
  thanks, Bert
Title: Re: the John McArthur family in Lanarkshire
Post by: Rosinish on Monday 11 February 19 00:43 GMT (UK)
I found that John Macarthur lived on George St , Barony in 1841.  Does any body know if that area of town would have been tenement houses  ( like High St was back then).  He worked as a cotton spinner in one of the mills in East Glasgow.   The photos available of High St were real eye openers for me! 
    The census didnt say the number or the cross street on George, so its hard to pinpoint his location.

If you look at the original 1841 census this should give a clue as to the housing arrangements.
There should be enough info. to give you an idea & possibly no.s not listed on transcriptions?

Sorry but I haven't an incline as to what your meaning is of 'the cross street'?

Annie
Title: Re: the John McArthur family in Lanarkshire
Post by: Bertsbees on Monday 11 February 19 02:58 GMT (UK)
Cross street is a street that intersects with another street.  He lived on George St, but George St. cuts across a wide area of Glasgow.  If I knew a street that intersects or crosses George , it would allow me to get a better idea of what neighborhood he may have lived in.
    Hope my explanation doesn’t make it more confusing..:-)))
         Thanks again, Annie.....Bert
Title: Re: the John McArthur family in Lanarkshire
Post by: Rosinish on Monday 11 February 19 03:16 GMT (UK)
This may help?

https://maps.nls.uk/geo/find/#zoom=5&lat=56.0000&lon=-4.0000&layers=102&b=1&point=0,0

Delete the 'X' right side top to continue (a bit odd I have to say).

Annie
Title: Re: the John McArthur family in Lanarkshire
Post by: Forfarian on Monday 11 February 19 10:59 GMT (UK)
Each Enumeration Book starts with a description of the Enumeration District. If you go https://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/guides/census-returns#Description%20of%20ED you can find guidance on these and how to access them.
Title: Re: the John McArthur family in Lanarkshire
Post by: MonicaL on Monday 11 February 19 15:09 GMT (UK)
The 1841 census entry for John MacArthur and family on FreeCen gives the following refs:

1841   Lanarkshire (LKS)   
Place Barony   
Civil Parish Calton   
Piece 622   
Enumeration District 67   
Folio 170   
Page 5      
Street George Street

Added: www.freecen.org.uk/search_records/5a14eb10f4040b9d6ef246a1?search_id=5c618b114325a6b850dd38de (new thing on the revamped site, links to entries now work!)

Having a look at the 1841 census street index here https://www.nrscotland.gov.uk/files/research/census-records/street-indexes/1841/1841-glasgow.pdf

With the refs from Freecen, we can see that parts of George Street were not numbered for the census.

At least for the moment, a narrowing down to the Calton area of Glasgow.

Monica
Title: Re: the John McArthur family in Lanarkshire
Post by: MonicaL on Monday 11 February 19 15:14 GMT (UK)
You might find this of interest on the history of the Calton area in general https://glasgow.gov.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=32312&p=0

You can get some ideas to the number of references to George Street from the 1838-39 Glasgow Post Office Directory here https://digital.nls.uk/directories/browse/archive/83813358

Monica
Title: Re: the John McArthur family in Lanarkshire
Post by: Forfarian on Monday 11 February 19 15:43 GMT (UK)
Added: www.freecen.org.uk/search_records/5a14eb10f4040b9d6ef246a1?search_id=5c618b114325a6b850dd38de (new thing on the revamped site, links to entries now work!)
That's just about the first thing I've heard about the new site that is a slight improvement on the original one. Everything else is the same or worse :(
Title: Re: the John McArthur family in Lanarkshire
Post by: MonicaL on Monday 11 February 19 15:51 GMT (UK)
I know, Forfarian  :-\ Miss the old searches and the ease of doing them and quickly viewing results.

Monica
Title: Re: the John McArthur family in Lanarkshire
Post by: Forfarian on Monday 11 February 19 16:17 GMT (UK)
I know, Forfarian  :-\ Miss the old searches and the ease of doing them and quickly viewing results.
You don't have to. The old site is still available at https://freecen1.freecen.org.uk/cgi/search.pl

Rant against the new FreeCEN https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=805264.0
Title: Re: the John McArthur family in Lanarkshire
Post by: Bertsbees on Monday 11 February 19 18:38 GMT (UK)
Thx for your info, I found the info on Carlton very interesting...In free cen census records,when you hit the “next household” button you can see that the entire street housed families in the cotton industry.  Even children thirteen or fourteen were listed as working in the cotton mills...Lots of people at one address...read in an other article that the children worked for cheap wages and were quick and nimble for work on the looms, etc.  They also helped to support their household.
     Bert
     
Title: Re: the John McArthur family in Lanarkshire
Post by: MonicaL on Monday 11 February 19 21:49 GMT (UK)
Thank you, Forfarian (I have ranted!).

Thank you also for the link to the old site. The new site keeps the feature of letting you view previous/next households but there seems to be a cut off on this (maybe the folio number only that you have been looking at?) On the old site, you are able to search further than this continuing back and further for ever (I exagerate for sure!).

Now that we have the information that the George Street the MacArthurs were living at in 1841 was in Calton (as we saw for the PO Directory, there are a number of George Streets including the one in Calton, referred as being the Mile-end area of Calton. It is therefore not the long George Street running east from George Square.

Using the previous/next feature on the old site until I got to surrounding addresses, I can see:

Park Lane
Broad Street
George Street
North Brook Street

I think this George Street has changed name as is now known as Rogart Street www.glasgowguide.co.uk/info-streetschanged2.html  Couldn't find Park Lane, but Broad St, Brook St and Rogart Street are still there today. Nothing to be seen of the old as it is now a business industrial park.

Map of the late 1800s here. This map lets you compare old and now https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side-by-side/#zoom=17&lat=55.8520&lon=-4.2226&layers=6&right=BingHyb


Title: Re: the John McArthur family in Lanarkshire
Post by: MonicaL on Monday 11 February 19 22:04 GMT (UK)
Photo of Rogart Street just under 100 years later (1933) http://www.mitchelllibrary.org/virtualmitchell/index.php?a=street&s=gallery&key=rYToxOntpOjA7czo5OiJSb2dhcnQgU3QiO30=

See also http://www.glasgowhistory.co.uk/Books/EastGlasgowDictionary/EastGlasgowArticles/MileEnd.htm

Monica
Title: Re: the John McArthur family in Lanarkshire
Post by: Bertsbees on Monday 11 February 19 23:17 GMT (UK)
Monica, thanks again for all your advice in my search for the MacArthurs neighborhood.  I was assuming that they lived on the long stretch of George St that starts at George Square.....but your "trick" of advancing to the next street address , pinpoints the neighborhood much closer than I would ever have figured out.
     Some day I would love to visit Scotland and walk in the steps of my relatives.  The Mile end rock marker will definitely be on my "to-do" list   Cheers...Bert