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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Denbighshire => Topic started by: pimpernel on Sunday 10 February 19 18:24 GMT (UK)
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Hi everyone, I'm struggling a little with an 1881 census entry for 5 Russell St, Cefn Mawr, Ruabon district. Here we have the household of Daniel Evans:
Daniel Evans (25) Head
Hannah Evans (30) wife
Emily A. Evans (6) daughter
William Evans (4) son
Emily Rogers (51) widow, mother-in-law
Edward Rogers (14) brother-in-law
Sarah Edwards (76) widow, grandmother
William H. Lloyd (17) nephew
My connection is the Grandmother Sarah Edwards, also Daniel's nephew William H. Lloyd, who also appears in the 1871 census living in his grandparent's house (Edward & Sarah Edwards, in Sion Cottage, Cysyllte).
I'm finding it hard to confirm the connections though.
The most likely 1871 census for Daniel Evans shows him as the youngest child of Godfrey and Anne Evans, who, according to the census, were born circa 1806 and 1812 respectfully. This makes both of them too old to be the offspring of Sarah Edwards, born circa 1805/06, which seems to rule out Daniels' family as connected to Sarah, so I assume "grandmother" refers to wife Hannah's family.
Hannah's maiden name must be Rogers, judging by the brother-in-law and mother-in-law listed. If Hannah was born circa 1851, I've not found any Emily=Evans marriage that might identify her father, or confirm mother Emily's maiden name, the only 1871 census entry that I found that matches shows a Hannah working as a servant in Pendleton, no indication of parents. Also no sign of an 'Emily Rogers' in the earlier censuses. I did find a possible 1871 entry for Hannah's brother Edward, living with parents Robert & Emma Rogers in Brymbo, but that's a fair distance from the Ruabon area, I'm not convinced.
All this leaves me wondering how my confirmed ancestor, the 'grandmother' Sarah Edwards, is connected to this family. The only grandparent route left would be Emily Rogers' mother, i.e. Emily was originally Emily Edwards. As Emily was born circa 1830 she would be a suitable age to be Sarah's daughter. Research so far has identified daughters of Sarah and husband Edward Edwards as Harriet (B.1832, I believe married Edward Roberts), Sarah (1838, married Edward Williams) and Ann (1842), but I've not found any records indicating a daughter Emily though. If I could pin down Emily's maiden name it would help to confirm!
If Sarah's youngest daughter Ann survived to adulthood, perhaps she was the mother of William H Lloyd, but I've not had any luck tracing his birth, or an Ann Edwards marriage to a Lloyd.
William H Lloyd, 'nephew' of Daniel Evans, was born circa 1863/64 and clearly a grandson of Sarah Edwards in the 1871 and 1881 censuses, but no sign of his parents at all. As the family worked on canal boats perhaps this parents were frequently away, but I've not found any specific likely parents. He's probably the William Lloyd shown in Cefn in 1891 at 26 Mount Pleasant, aged 27 and with wife Elizabeth. He's definitely family, but where does he connect!
If anyone can help to identify Sarah Edwards' connection to the family of Daniel Evans, and/or the identity of William H Lloyds' parentage, I'd be very grateful!
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Interesting family in Russell Street in 1871?
Eliza Rogers 40 - married, charwoman
Hannah Pritchard 19 - daughter, unmarried
Thomas Edwin Rogers 4 - son
William Lloyd Rogers 10 Months - son
mmn for Thomas and William is Lloyd
PRITCHARD, HANNAH mmn LLOYD
Q2 1851 WREXHAM Volume 27 Page 293
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Marriages Q4 1874 Wrexham Vol 11b p514
Evans Daniel <<<
Jones Edward
PRITCHARD Hannah <<<
Roberts Elizabeth
EVANS, WILLIAM LLOYD mmn PRITCHARD
Q2 1877 WREXHAM Volume 11B Page 315
Not sure I can find Emily - unless she was actually born in West Derby district
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And here is the nephew's birth
LLOYD, WILLIAM HENRY mmn not given (usually implies illegitimate)
Q2 1863 WREXHAM Volume 11B Page 345
I can only suppose Sarah Edwards has some connection to the Lloyd family. I suspect some switching around of names and/or partners may be going on - there is an Elizabeth Pritchard-Richard Rogers marriage in Wrexham in 1873, but that's after the census and birth of some children
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marriage 23 Nov 1874 in the parish church of Ruabon for
Daniel Evans 20 collier Cefn Mawr father Godfrey Evans shoemaker
&
Hannah Pritchard 23 Cefn Mawr father John Pritchard collier
witnesses William Richards & Mary Ann Pritchard
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marriage 7 Dec 1850 in the parish church of Ruabon for
John Pritchard 28 bach collier Cefn Mawr father Thomas, collier
and
Eliza Lloyd 22 spinster servant Cefn Mawr father William, collier
witnesses Thomas Jones & Mary Ann Lloyd
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In 1871 there is an Emma Rogers(correct age),wife of Robert,with a son Edward also of the correct age,living in Brymbo.
Roger
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The first listed son of that couple,Lewis,has a mmn Evans.
Roger
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Marriage of Robert Rogers to Emma Evans Liverpool 1852.
Roger
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Thank you so much for the help!!
I saw the 1871 Brymbo household and wondered if it might be the same, though Brymbo is the other side of Wrexham to Cefn Mawr, not a great distance, but every other pointer shows the family settled in the Cefn area, so I wasn't so sure. If the same household is elsewhere in the 1881 it would dispell confusion - will check.
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Sorry,looks like a false trail as Robert and Emma Rogers are together in 1881.
Roger
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Mabel, the birth record you found for William Henry Lloyd has to be the correct one, many thanks for that! Unmarried parents perhaps, as you say, though it still doesn't pin the connection between my Edwards family and William H Lloyd.
If Hannah Evans' maiden name was Pritchard, as suggested by the details you showed, then I'm back to square one on finding a link to Sarah Edwards. She's clearly stated as grandmother both in the 1871, and in the 1881 censuses. Perhaps then, Daniel Evans was not, after all that same Daniel as shown in the 1871, in Cefn, son of Godfrey and Anne, or, perhaps the censuses just got the connections mixed up? I'm a little confused by all of this!
I believe Sarah Edwards was born Sarah Clarke (marriage to Edward Edwards 27th Dec 1824, Ruabon).
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Many thanks despair!!
Sorry,looks like a false trail as Robert and Emma Rogers are together in 1881.
Roger
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I'm a little confused by all of this!
Me too! Reply 4 shows Daniel was Godfrey's son, and the Lewis link does seem to be on the Edwards side, but not sure how
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In the 1901 and 1911 censuses a matching William Henry Lloyd appears in Delph Terrace, Acrefair, married to Elizabeth and working as a terracotta chimney top maker, but there's no clue to his parentage.
Incidentally I notice there's a tree on Ancestry listing William as the son of Harriet Edwards, who the tree has as marrying a William Lloyd (in contrast to my research that she married Edward Roberts), and both parents dieing soon after younger William's birth. The idea that William was an orphan and raised by his grandparents fits with the details, but the other Ancestry tree lacks sources, and has confused William Henry with another William Lloyd living in Lancashire in later life, which I'm pretty sure is wrong.
This has encouraged me to double check my own sources for the marriages of Edward and Sarah Edwards' daughters though. There's always a degree of assumption with connecting names, and there are a lot of similar names in Wales!
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I wonder if some(?) of the relationships described in 1881 relate to Daniel's wife Hannah,who is the daughter of John Pritchard and Elizabeth Lloyd.Elizabeth's father is William Lloyd,described as Bricklayer on her marriage certificate.William Henry Loyd is given as a Brickmaker in 1881-perhaps he is "nephew in law" to Daniel Evans
Roger
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Thank you Roger, the names seem to suggest a link, but hang on, if Hannah is the daughter of John Pritchard and Elizabeth Lloyd, why are there Rogers in-laws to the family in the household? I assumed as there's Rogers brother-in-law and mother-in-law to Daniel, that Hannah's maiden name would be Rogers too.
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I think Eliza Lloyd becomes Eliza Pritchard who becomes Eliza Rogers as per the 1871 census whih Mabel found with Eliza Rogers,Hannah Pritchad(sic),Thomas Edwin Rogers and William Lloyd Rogers.Hannah,Thomas and William all have mmn Lloyd.
Roger
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It is possible,of course,that the relationship to Hannah only applies to William H and the others are "conventional descriptions".
Roger
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My dearest thanks to everyone who've helped me with this, all very gratefully received! So, I understand now that the Lloyd connection is from Elizabeth's maiden name before she was married twice, thank you!!
So, where does William Henry Lloyd fit in? He must be descended from a sibling of Elizabeth Lloyd, that assumedly married into my Edwards family, though the naming of him as "nephew" and "grandson" in the censuses doesn't altogether add up.
It's given me new areas for research though!