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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Lanarkshire => Topic started by: IainBell on Sunday 10 February 19 22:35 GMT (UK)

Title: Elizabeth Livingstone, Glasgow, born c1888
Post by: IainBell on Sunday 10 February 19 22:35 GMT (UK)
Hello again, good people!
After my disaster where I 'lost' about 300 people, I'm back. So are they, mostly! :D
So onward and upward...

In the 1891 census for Glassary, Lochgair, I have a record of an Elizabeth Livingstone 3 yrs old, born Lanarkshire, Glasgow. So, born around 1888.
Living with Lachlan Bell (47) at Gallanach 31, listed as niece. So, I'm assuming a female Bell married a male Livingstone...not a Livingstone to be seen anywhere in the tree other than her.

That's it. That's all I've got!
Can't find a birth record for her, can't find a marriage record for any Bell+Livingston(+-e) with any Bell (that fits) as a mother for Elizabeth.
Spoilt for choice for death records...hmm, which one to choose?

As an aside, can anyone explain why 'they' scored through some ages on the census forms, but not others? Lachlan, 47, scored, May, 45, scored, Lachlan, 14, scored, John D. 11, NOT scored, Mary, 8, not scored, Elizabeth Livingstone, (the niece in question) 3, scored, and Flora Bell, niece, 25, scored...what's that about? Not just the Bells, others are/aren't scored on the same page.
Thanks,
Iain
Title: Re: Elizabeth Livingstone, Glasgow, born c1888
Post by: CaroleW on Sunday 10 February 19 22:53 GMT (UK)
Search for the birth as Livingston and there are 4 possibilities but 3 have middle names.  Only one is just Elizabeth & birth was registered in Bridgeton
Title: Re: Elizabeth Livingstone, Glasgow, born c1888
Post by: CaroleW on Sunday 10 February 19 22:58 GMT (UK)
Just looked at the 1891 entry and she is Elizabeth F  not just Elizabeth ???

Presumably the Elizabeth Falco Livingston on SP
Title: Re: Elizabeth Livingstone, Glasgow, born c1888
Post by: IainBell on Monday 11 February 19 00:44 GMT (UK)
Carole, well spotted on the 'F'! I must get new glasses... ::)

Elizabeth Falconer Livingston Dec. 27th 1888. Daughter of Duncan Livingston and Jessie Livingston nee Fraser

I have a May Fraser 1839-1919 in my tree, my ggmother. I haven't dug into her too deeply as yet, but I will now...she needs to have a sister called Jessie  :D So far, she only has Ann and Georgina...

Thanks, hopefully going in the right direction now...
Iain
Title: Re: Elizabeth Livingstone, Glasgow, born c1888
Post by: Rosinish on Monday 11 February 19 00:55 GMT (UK)
Marriage;

LIVINGSTON DUNCAN & FRASER JESSIE 1869
644/6 343 Blythswood

Annie

Title: Re: Elizabeth Livingstone, Glasgow, born c1888
Post by: CaroleW on Monday 11 February 19 01:16 GMT (UK)
Have you checked SP to see what May Bellís maiden name was?  Elizabeth could belong to her side of the family
Title: Re: Elizabeth Livingstone, Glasgow, born c1888
Post by: Rosinish on Monday 11 February 19 01:31 GMT (UK)
I have a May Fraser 1839-1919 in my tree, my ggmother.
she needs to have a sister called Jessie  :D So far, she only has Ann and Georgina...

Can you please elaborate on the info. you have for the others above & where/when born for all?

Who was May's husband, where/when married & any other info. please?

Annie
Title: Re: Elizabeth Livingstone, Glasgow, born c1888
Post by: Rosinish on Monday 11 February 19 02:18 GMT (UK)
"In the 1891 census for Glassary, Lochgair, I have a record of an Elizabeth Livingstone 3 yrs old, born Lanarkshire, Glasgow. So, born around 1888.
Living with Lachlan Bell (47) at Gallanach 31, listed as niece. So, I'm assuming a female Bell married a male Livingstone"

Not necessarily as the relationship is to the 'Head' of household i.e. you have to consider both options of Elizabeth's surname.

What was the name of Lachlan's wife incl. m/s?

It's always best to list the County of the place you find people i.e. Lochgair is a village in Glassary, which is a Parish in the County of Argyll (which helps others willing to help).

Annie
Title: Re: Elizabeth Livingstone, Glasgow, born c1888
Post by: IainBell on Monday 11 February 19 21:06 GMT (UK)
Lachlan Bell 1840-1917 and May Bell nee Fraser 1838-1919. They're solid, in the gravestone on my avatar. Married in Anderston 22nd May 1872. May's parents I have as William Fraser 1805(?) and Janet Ross 1810(?). Married Dec. 29th 1826.

So far, and only from smart matches, I have two sisters for May, Ann 1831 and Georgina 1836. All three born Forres. Lachlan was born in Glassary, Argyll.

I posted in 'Lanarkshire', as that was on the census where I have Elizabeth F. Livingstone (sic). She was in Glassary for that census, though, so perhaps Argyll as well would have been helpful.

The birth record for Elizabeth Dec. 26th 1888 has her parents as Duncan L. and Jessie L. nee Fraser. Marriage, as stated above, 1869 Blythswood. Duncan is listed as 'Compositor, journeyman'.

In the marriage certificate, parents are Duncan L., 'steamship stoker', and Margaret Livingston nee Livingston, for him, then William Fraser, 'gardener' (deceased) and Jessie Fraser nee Ross for her. William is also 'gardener' deceased on Lachlan and May's marriage record.

I have a marriage record of William Fraser and Janet Ross, in Tarbat, Ross and Cromarty 29/12/1826, which I believe is that of the parents of above-mentioned May, Ann and Georgina Fraser.  A smart match has turned up more siblings for May Fraser, (and a wheen of other folk!) but no 'Jessie'.
Sorry, I may be a bit slow here, but I can't see a connection where it's needed...
Thanks,
Iain
Title: Re: Elizabeth Livingstone, Glasgow, born c1888
Post by: Forfarian on Monday 11 February 19 21:45 GMT (UK)
It's always best to list the County of the place you find people i.e. Lochgair is a village in Glassary, which is a Parish in the County of Argyll (which helps others willing to help).
It is also useful to provide a link to any previous threads on the same family, so that helpful people don't duplicate what others have already done.
 
In this case https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=806863.0
Title: Re: Elizabeth Livingstone, Glasgow, born c1888
Post by: Rosinish on Tuesday 12 February 19 01:53 GMT (UK)
Marriage;

LIVINGSTON DUNCAN & FRASER JESSIE 1869
644/6 343 Blythswood

What's the age of Jessie/Janet on her marriage & where does she state she was born on later census' with age on each of them for an average/likely yr?

Annie

Title: Re: Elizabeth Livingstone, Glasgow, born c1888
Post by: MonicaL on Tuesday 12 February 19 22:07 GMT (UK)
Hi Iain

Good to hear that you are making headway following the data issues you had... :)

Just working through some censuses on the Fraser side as it looks likely that May and Jessie were certainly sisters:

Following the marriage of Jessie Fraser to Duncan Livingston that you now have, this looks to be their 1871 census entry, surname as transcribed:

Duncan Levingston 28 printer compositor b. Glasgow
Jessie Levingston 22 b. Tarbert Ross
Georgina Levingston 6 months https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FQHZ-PHZ

Address: 293 High St, Glasgow Central

Monica

Title: Re: Elizabeth Livingstone, Glasgow, born c1888
Post by: MonicaL on Tuesday 12 February 19 22:21 GMT (UK)
One generation back, this is Jessie's family I think in 1851:

William Fraser 55 labourer b. Inverness
Janet Fraser 44 b. Tarbat, Ross
Georgenia Fraser 14
Mary Fraser 11
David Fraser 8
William Fraser 6
Janet Fraser 3 b. Tarbat, Ross
Christenia Ross 69 pauper Mother b. Tarbat, Ross

Address: Goanies Cottage, Tarbat

All the children show as born Tarbat but from records, the eldest ones seem to have been born in Forres Moray:

Ann 1831 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X16L-ZR2
Elspet 1833 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X162-QVT
Georgina 1836 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X16J-XV3
May 1838 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X16L-W9G
David 1841 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VQ73-JV5

Can't see an entry for Jessie c. 1848 from her 1851 entry.

The family in 1841 everyone showing as born outside of the county except for mother Janet:

William Fraser 40 farmer
Janet Fraser 30 b R&C
John Fraser 13
Christian Fraser 10   
Eppy Fraser 8        
Georgina Fraser 5                
May Fraser 2

Address: Meikle Tarrel Tarbat

Monica
Title: Re: Elizabeth Livingstone, Glasgow, born c1888
Post by: MonicaL on Tuesday 12 February 19 22:29 GMT (UK)
Ooops...I think Forfarian had already covered the early years of the Fraser Family in one post on the other thread here www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=806863.0
Title: Re: Elizabeth Livingstone, Glasgow, born c1888
Post by: Forfarian on Wednesday 13 February 19 02:23 GMT (UK)
Ooops...I think Forfarian had already covered the early years of the Fraser Family in one post on the other thread here www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=806863.0
Yes, but I didn't provide the 1851 census details, only the 1841.

Also I don't think anyone has so far explained to Iain that Janet and Jessie are totally interchangeable - when you mislay a Jessie, look for a Janet, and vice versa.
Title: Re: Elizabeth Livingstone, Glasgow, born c1888
Post by: Rosinish on Wednesday 13 February 19 02:39 GMT (UK)
Forfarian,

I may not have been clear but I did address the Jessie/Janet in Reply #10

Annie
Title: Re: Elizabeth Livingstone, Glasgow, born c1888
Post by: Skoosh on Wednesday 13 February 19 08:48 GMT (UK)
@ Monica, anent the Tarbat Fraser's, that will be Geanies Cottage, prop' of Murray of Geanies.

Skoosh.
Title: Re: Elizabeth Livingstone, Glasgow, born c1888
Post by: Forfarian on Wednesday 13 February 19 08:55 GMT (UK)
I may not have been clear but I did address the Jessie/Janet in Reply #10
You did indeed use both alternatives. I was just trying to clarify in case Iain didn't know they were in effect the same name.
Title: Re: Elizabeth Livingstone, Glasgow, born c1888
Post by: MonicaL on Wednesday 13 February 19 13:58 GMT (UK)
For those who have not come across it, this is one of the best (if not the best, in my opinion  ::)) first name variants reference www.whatsinaname.net/

Some first name variants are obvious, some less so.

The variant Janet/Jessie for example www.whatsinaname.net/female-names/Jessie.html

Monica
Title: Re: Elizabeth Livingstone, Glasgow, born c1888
Post by: Forfarian on Wednesday 13 February 19 14:21 GMT (UK)
For those who have not come across it, this is one of the best (if not the best, in my opinion  ::)) first name variants reference www.whatsinaname.net/
Absolutely the best.
Title: Re: Elizabeth Livingstone, Glasgow, born c1888
Post by: IainBell on Thursday 14 February 19 06:56 GMT (UK)
Snatching 2 minutes here, I've been, and will be, out of touch until Monday or Tuesday...
I'll be back...
Iain
Title: Re: Elizabeth Livingstone, Glasgow, born c1888
Post by: IainBell on Tuesday 19 February 19 15:36 GMT (UK)
Hello all, I'm back!
Firstly, many thanks for all your help, it was invaluable! As always... :D whatsinaname is excellent!
Elizabeth Falconer Livingstone, b.1888 is now nailed down, turns out to be a cousin of my Grandfather, not a niece, but close enough!
She emigrated to the US on board the Columbia from Glasgow, arriving at Ellis Island Oct. 21st, 1909. She married a William Donaldson McCue in Los Angeles on Oct. 20th, 1921. No immigration record for him, as yet.
Sadly, said William was shot to death* on Oct. 19th, 1922. The day before their first wedding anniversary  :(
I'll keep hunting around for more information on them both, possible Eliz. Livingston as a domestic servant, 43, in Boston in the 1930 US census...
At the moment, though, it looks as if that line stops at Elizabeth and William. Plenty of his family to be going on with.

*Seems William was murdered by one Aurelio Pompa, (21 at the time) after an argument over Pompa using McCue's tools without permission, on the new LA Post Office building, Pompa being Williams labourer. Mentioned in a book called !Pobre Rasa!, page 150 and 109. He received the death sentence,and was executed.  (7th Mar. 1924)
The book was written from a Mexican standpoint, and apparently Pompa was "elevated to legendary status for standing up to him". Also mentioned in the book Testimonio: A Documentary History of the Mexican American Struggle for Civil Rights.
Sad little story... :(
Title: Re: Elizabeth Livingstone, Glasgow, born c1888
Post by: IainBell on Tuesday 19 February 19 15:47 GMT (UK)
Seems Pompa came from Caborca Son, Mexico, entered US at Nogales Aug. 19th 1919.
Neither of them had a very long life in California...
Title: Re: Elizabeth Livingstone, Glasgow, born c1888
Post by: MonicaL on Tuesday 19 February 19 22:05 GMT (UK)
There is always a walk through such a varied social history isn't there. You have done well with all of that!

Have you got William's family? From 1901:

David Mccue 35 mason b. England
Priscilla Mccue 32  b. England
John Mccue 15  b. England
David Mccue 14 b. Govan, Renfrewshire
Priscilla Mccue 12 b. Govan, Renfrewshire
William Mccue 9 b. Houston, Renfrewshire
Edward Mccue 7 b. Houston, Renfrewshire
Maggie Mccue 5 b. Houston, Renfrewshire
Robina Mccue 3 b. Houston, Renfrewshire
Ernest Mccue 7 months b. abbey, Renfrewshire

Address : Benview Johnstone and Elderslie, Renfrewshire

William shows in Canada in time for WW1. There are attestation papers for him to the Canadian Overseas Expeditionary Force. He enlisted on 23 Sept 1914. Birth date 31 July 1891. Father David next of kin. Demobbed in Sept 1919.

Have a look on Ancestry as there are lots of family trees for the family of David and Pricilla and their children.

He was in Sunderland England at the time of the 1911 census, then enlisting in Canada in Sept 1914. Gives you a window for his travel to Canada or US.

Monica

Added: William's birth details and how you will find them on SP:

William Donaldson Mccue
14 Jul 1891
Govan, Lanark, Scotland
Father: David Mccue
Mother: Priscilla Sarah Anderson Mccue


Title: Re: Elizabeth Livingstone, Glasgow, born c1888
Post by: MonicaL on Tuesday 19 February 19 22:40 GMT (UK)
Seems Pompa came from Caborca Son, Mexico

Son is short for Sonora.

Monica
Title: Re: Elizabeth Livingstone, Glasgow, born c1888
Post by: MonicaL on Tuesday 19 February 19 22:46 GMT (UK)
William travelled over to Canada and arrived in Quebec on 2 May 1912. He travelled with his father David, leaving Liverpool on the 'Lake Manitoba'.

His father died in Sunderland so will have returned to England at some point.

Monica
Title: Re: Elizabeth Livingstone, Glasgow, born c1888
Post by: IainBell on Wednesday 20 February 19 10:11 GMT (UK)
Monica, I've said it before...you're GOOD at this stuff!
I have the list of family you've posted, not really looked hard at them yet. Smart match...
The travel and immigration bit was my next target, you got there first!
I'll look into the enlistment...
To have survived the whole stupidity of WW1 just to murdered by a coward...such a waste  :(
I'm making (slow) progress with the Bell side, adding little details here and there. Some info., it seems, just isn't there...probably not been 'digitized' yet.
Doesn't look like anyone is doing active research on exactly my bit, but plenty of others in the surrounding families, so I'll see what pops up in the future.
Anyway, many thanks for all the help, all of you, you know who you are!
I'll likely be back... ;D
Iain
Title: Re: Elizabeth Livingstone, Glasgow, born c1888
Post by: Forfarian on Wednesday 20 February 19 11:42 GMT (UK)
Iain, if you come across a Duncan (sometimes recorded as Daniel) Livingston(e) married to a Margaret M(a)cgregor in Glasgow in 1835, I can fill you in on the descendants of their son Peter, who married a relative of mine. (Not to be confused with another couple of the same names, married in Little Dunkeld in 1833.)
Title: Re: Elizabeth Livingstone, Glasgow, born c1888
Post by: IainBell on Wednesday 20 February 19 21:52 GMT (UK)
Thank you, Forfarian, I haven't, as yet, come across them, but you never know!
If I do, I'll be in touch,
Thanks,
Iain