RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Topic started by: MasonT78 on Monday 11 February 19 08:22 GMT (UK)
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Hi everyone,
Just after peoples thoughts on the following. Im trying to trace the English family of my 3x Great Grandfather Robert Mason from Great Yarmouth & Woolwich that was sent to Australia as a convict.
Robert Mason was the illegitimate child of Sarah Mason. He was born in 1801 in Great Yarmouth. He married Mary Hindry and they had a son Robert Hindry Mason. After he was sent to Australia in 1830 on board the Henry Tanner he married Anne Morrison. They had the following children:
Sarah Anne Mason 1847-1923
Caroline Rebecca Mason 1850-1931
Randal Harrison Mason 1856-1857
3 Unknown Male Children (As per Anne Morrison Death Certificate)
Im trying to find the family of Sarah Mason (Mother). I have come across the following family:
Sarah born to John Mason & Sarah Harrison in 1778 in Great Yarmouth. Other children to John and Sarah:
John 1770, Hemsby Norfolk
William 1772 Hemsby Norfolg
Anne 1776 Great Yarmouth
James 1783 Great Yarmouth
Thomas 1786 Great Yarmouth
Mary 1788 Great Yarmouth
Harriett 1793 Great Yarmouth
There is a Sarah Mason who had another illegitimate child in 1803 to Robert Kidd, the son was called James Mason. James had a daughter Caroline that appears to be living with her grandmother Sarah on the Census in 1841.
Note: Sarah Harrison had a brother called Randal Harrison.
So is the following a coincidence or should i assume the above is the right family:
If correct my Grandfather Robert Mason has a great uncle called Randal Harrison. Robert named his own son Randal Harrison Mason.
He also named his daughter Caroline, was this named after what would have been his niece who was born in 1829, the year before he was sent to Australia.
Roberts family petitioned for clemency for his return to England. The petition, not containing any Mason surnames, is signed "Sarah Mason Mother", one might assume that sarah never married, however the 1851 census has Sarah (Also her granddaughter Caroline living with her still) listed as a widow.
Im having trouble trying to find anything that confirms the above, but i think there are some coincidences that point to it as being correct, but i dont want to assume and get it wrong.
Gladly welcome anyone's thoughts or suggestions on where I can try and find info (Im in Australia so visiting Local Records Offices inst an option). I have another post relating to Robert that provides more info about him https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=762747.0
Cheers
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That all sounds quite promising. Is the only fly in the ointment the fact that Sarah Mason claimed to be a widow rather than unmarried in 1851? If so it wouldn't be that surprising given that she was a grandmother - "widow" would have saved her blushes about having had her children out of wedlock.
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Thanks for that.
Im leaning towards that this is the right family. However I have seen a lot of people attached the wrong family to another of my ancestors, so im a bit apprehensive.
I cant find a death record for Sarah either.....
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I cant find a death record for Sarah either.....
Have you considered the Sarah Mason whose death aged 81 was registered Mar qtr 1859 Yarmouth 4b 3?
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That could be right, the birth year is the same as Roberts potential mother. Matches with her not being married. I might have to buy the death certificate....
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If you order it now, the pdf "certificate" will cost you £6 - going up to £7 on 16 February.
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Thanks. I have ordered the one for Sarah (Potential Mother) and then the one for Roberts son and grandson (I know these to be correct).
Ive looked into the Harrison Family a bit more - there was a William Harrison that was working as a carpenter in Great Yarmouth around the same time Robert was born. As Robert was a carpenter im think this was a relation of his (Maybe) Grandmother and its from him he learnt his trade. I have also found Randal Harrison died the year before Robert moved from Great Yarmouth to Woolwich, adds more weight to my Grandfather calling his own son Robert Harrison (Mason).
Hopefully Sarah's death certificate provides some info, but I think this is the right family.
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Hopefully Sarah's death certificate provides some info, but I think this is the right family.
I agree with avm, the circumstantial evidence is good but do not be swayed by others trees, go with your own research & docs.
Annie
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Hi Annie,
Thanks for your response. Yes I always go with my own research. I have seen many people make mistakes with their trees by not properly researching (Many people have one of my grandfathers attached to the wrong family, which they would realize if the research fully).
I haven't actually come across any trees that show ancestors of my Grandfather, nor any results from DNA tests that can confirm.
Thanks again
:)
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Yes I always go with my own research. I have seen many people make mistakes with their trees by not properly researching (Many people have one of my grandfathers attached to the wrong family, which they would realize if the research fully).
Ditto & likewise, easily researched but things wrong, extra kids, all copied although some is correct & the people in my direct line (2 x g gparents) my 2 x g g/mother was actually widowed i.e. had a large family but those trees have the kids all from my 2 x g g/father with extras!
Another person had one of my direct line going back & forward (by boat or swimming) to a different island as it was the only way he could have & having children there too yet at home where he should have been on every census & if I recall, signed every birth but I sorted out the persons tree for them which had no remote connection with my own! ::)
Annie
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I'm with the others. There are so many coincidences that it probably won't be a waste of money buying the certs you need. Apprenticeship registry lists usually give names of father, apprentice and employer - unfortunately, there was no need to register an apprenticeship if the apprentice was in the employ of a family member.
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Apprenticeship registry lists usually give names of father, apprentice and employer - unfortunately, there was no need to register an apprenticeship if the apprentice was in the employ of a family member.
Thanks - that would explain why I cant find any apprentice info. About 1830 left left Great Yarmouth for Woolwich, Kent to work as a journeyman carpenter for WH Mason - trying to find if he is related but no such luck. I do know he had an Aunt at Woolwich, but no other info (Is on the petition for clemency documents)
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Have just received back the death certificate for Sarah. It says:
Widow of James Mason Carpenter Journeyman (This is the same occupation as my grandfather)
Informant was James Mason, Victoria Road (This is the same address as James Mason/Kidd)
Neither the 1841 or 1851 census has James Mason (Husband) living with her.
So this is definitely the Sarah Mason that could be Roberts potential mother, but doesnt confirm either way that she is my grandfathers mother.
I wonder if Sarah was perhaps saying that she was a widow to save the embarrassment of having two illegitimate children???
Not too sure where to go from here....Perhaps I need to admit defeat.