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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Topic started by: Gobbiner on Monday 11 February 19 21:21 GMT (UK)
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Has anyone an opinion about the origin of the surname Morne and if it is a name native to Ireland as it has been suggested to me that the name is a derivative of Moran could this be the case?
Any helpful information about the surname will be appreciated.
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Try it here
https://www.johngrenham.com/surnames/
Doesn't look like it's an Irish name.
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The name is in the Irish surname list you have posted.
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According to the Surname Profiler it is "unclassified" however the highest concentrations of the surname appear around Yorkshire:
http://gbnames.publicprofiler.org/
These sorts of sites just show distribution of that surname in the 1881 census rather than where the surname originated if known. It appears to be the same with the site Sinann linked to which seem to be showing only two families with that surname (if I am reading it correctly). That does not mean that it is or was an "irish" surname.
As you will see on the Surname Profiler there is a similar surname, Morney, which may or may not have similar pronunciation as Morne. The distribution of that surname is different from Morne.
Sometimes a family surname can change intentionally or unintentionally (eg spellings change over time /people are illiterate and don't realise what has been written on official forms etc) and the surname can differ slightly though the name was originally the same. You see this sort of thing with obvious easy to understand differences such as Clark/Clarke.
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Irish Genealogy shows a few Mornes both civil and church records- some may be duplicated.
Ancestry uk shows a few Irish born Mornes in England and some born England.
Some Mornes on those sites might be transcribed wrongly, misheard or misspelt.
Looking at the context and history of your family, what have you found?
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It's not in the Surname Dictionary on Irish Ancestors, try an obvious Irish surname like Kelly or similar and you will see the Surname Dictionary at the bottom of the page.
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31 entries on Irish Genealogy including a McMorne (1847) in civil records & 40 in Church records with an entry in 1768.
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/
That length of time, if you were from the 1768 entry, the people would surely be Irish? Could easily be a mishearing/mistranscription of Moran which has over 15,000 church record entries.
I would track my ancestor with Morne & townland until they ran out and then parallel search for Moran or Morrin and variations.
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I have heard Doran pronounced Dor'n, so I imagine Moran could be pronounced Mor'n. Which could get it spelled as Morne.
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I have heard Doran pronounced Dor'n, so I imagine Moran could be pronounced Mor'n. Which could get it spelled as Morne.
Agree with this. Much depends on what is heard and transcribed. Often the transcribers had never heard an Irish accent before and just related the sounds and spelling to something familiar. We also have the 'Mountains of Mourne'. Diff spelling and pronunciation though I am sure someone would write it as Morne or Morn. Mor'n Dor'n. Always a possibility.
I have a simple view on Irish surnames. If the person came from Ireland, the name is an Irish surname. The surname may have originated in some other place and we can find this other place sometimes just like we can find the Huguenot origins of some English surnames. Or it may have been in Ireland going way back.
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i didnt look for Mc Morne or OMorne, but did find a La morney by accicident
below [6 counties] from 1823-1837 Tithes Applotment Books based upon the index work of the Irish Genealogy Hub’s listing for each parish in Northern Ireland, The relevant original books are in the Public Record Office of Northern Ireland (PRONI) Belfast
Morn, Thomas-Townland: Cah Year: 1825-Errigal-Derry
Morney, Patrick-T: Fireagh Y: 1830-Drumragh-Tyrone
Mourn, Patt.-Tl: Glen Yr: 1832-Enniskillen-Fermanagh
Mourne, James-T: Loy Gardens Y: 1826-Derryloran-Derry & Tyrone
Mourne, James-T: Loy Gardens Y: 1826-Derryloran-Tyrone
below [26 counties]from http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/
Morn Jno Giants Grand Rathronan Tipperary 1827
Morne John Rockfield Rathaspick Westmeath 1833
Morne James Carrigagh Rathaspick Westmeath 1833
Morne Francis Ballygarvey Rathaspick Westmeath 1833
Morne Thomas Rathowen Rathaspick Westmeath 1833
Morney Denis Thomastown Carbury Kildare 1834
Morney James Killrahan Dysartmoon Kilkenny 1831
Morney Wm Killrahan Dysartmoon Kilkenny 1831
Morney Thos Killrahan Dysartmoon Kilkenny 1831
Morney Terence Knocknaskagh Kilmolash Waterford 1827
Morney Patt Moveen East and Mulcashine Moyarta Clare 1827
Morney Mary Wolfestown Rathmore Kildare 1842
Morney John Aughlish Tuam Galway 1831
La Morney Wm Ballihalwick Fanlobbus Cork 1826
Mourne Patrick Laragh Derrylossary Wicklow 1831
Mourne James Tomriland Derrylossary Wicklow 1831
Mourne Thomas Ashtown Or Ballinafunshoge Derrylossary Wicklow 1831
Mourne Elizabeth Ashtown Or Ballinafunshoge Derrylossary Wicklow 1831
Mourne Thomas Ashtown Or Ballinafunshoge Derrylossary Wicklow 1831
Mourne Thomas Toghermore Derrylossary Wicklow 1831
Mourne Daniel Rathoonagh Kilbride Mayo 1834
Mourne Anthony Crott Kilbride Mayo 1834
Mourne Anthony Crott Kilbride Mayo 1834
Mourne Daniel Rahoonagh Kilbride Mayo 1834
Mourne Anthony Crott Kilbride Mayo 1834
Mourne Anthy Crott Kilbride Mayo 1834
Mourne Daniel Rathoonagh Kilbride Mayo 1833
Mourne Anthony Crott Kilbride Mayo 1833
Mourne Daniel Rahoonagh Kilbride Mayo 1833
Mourne Anthony Crott Kilbride Mayo 1833
Mourne Anth Crott Kilbride Mayo 1833
Mourne Arthur Killerney Roscommon Roscommon 1824
Mourne Arthur Carramore Roscommon Roscommon 1824
thats as mush as i can offer, the more open you are eg i would check Genes Reunited if you can give a person and approx birth
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I wonder if Gobbiner’s interest is in Ireland or elsewhere?
It would be good to find out :)
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Moarn and Mourn were listed as variants of Moran in "Varieties and Synonymes of Surnames and Christian Names in Ireland " by Robert E. Matheson, published 1901. Matheson was Registrar General of Ireland. The book is available to read as a pdf on the Internet Archive. https://archive.org
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add two more to the tithes list
Moarn Dennis Grallagh Greystown Tipperary 1830
Moarn & Fox Denis & Pat Cortubber Killukin Roscommon 1835
thank you for the online pdf for the book
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https://archive.org/details/varietiessynonym00math/page/56
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Hallmark thank you for the full url, its good to have it known about for those with brickwalls
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Hallmark thank you for the full url, its good to have it known about for those with brickwalls
Just copied and pasted my Bookmark! ;D
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Names and variants in the Matheson book were compiled from civil registration records. He relates a man writing 2 versions of his family surname when registering his brother's death. Asked about the spelling variation he explained that he always used one whereas his brother had favoured a different spelling.
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Names and variants in the Matheson book were compiled from civil registration records. He relates a man writing 2 versions of his family surname when registering his brother's death. Asked about the spelling variation he explained that he always used one whereas his brother had favoured a different spelling.
Sounds completely logical to me but then ........might be that Irish heritage. Ha ha Would be one of those inadvertent genealogical finds like the husband (widower) who completed the wife's section about years married, children born and children living in the census. ;)
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Thanks for the PDF copy of the Matteson book, found it to be very enlightening as it suggests that it is possible for the Moran surname to develop over time into other similar sounding names.
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Not over time but at same time too.....
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Not over time but at same time too.....
Examples of this happening stuck in my mind for 2 other Irish surnames.
One had a different spelling in each of the 20 parishes in Lancashire where they settled.
A household return for 1911 Irish census has 2 spellings of the family's surname. The names had been written in different hands and inks. I assume one person had begun filling in the form, was interrupted and put it aside and someone else finished it, perhaps in a hurry when they saw the census collector approaching the door.
I pronounce Moran with emphasis on 1st syllable. (Rhymes with Horan.) If a person mumbled the second syllable or said it quickly, it would sound like "Morn".
Where did your Mourne come from?
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Even is same household I have 4 sisters who used 2 different spellings for their Surname
2 always used one and 2 always used the other throughout their life and knew what they were doing!
So, which 2 were right and which 2 were wrong??
None of them!
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In his Special Report on Surnames in Ireland, published in 1909, Mathieson includes numerous examples of variation in the spelling of surnames which depended on the whim of the holder. “Some years ago the marriages of a brother and sister in the same family were solemnized in a Registrar’s office. The son gave his surname as “Faulkner” and his father’s name as “Faulkner.” The daughter gave her surname as Falconer, and her father’s surname as Falconer. Both marriages were subsequently re-solemnised in a place of worship, and the same orthographical differences were found to exist in the records kept by the officiating Minister.”