RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: LizG56 on Thursday 14 February 19 06:50 GMT (UK)
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My friend has asked if I could help find information on her family member. We can find information on his family but I’m finding information on Joseph John Symons very thin on the ground.
Joseph John Symons b. 1855 Douta Galla (Essendon) Melbourne
His parents are;
Father: Joseph Samuel Symons b. 10 Oct 1834, Lambeth St Mary, England, d. 6 Oct 1890. Gipps Ward Melbourne Hospital, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia (buried Kyneton Victoria)
Mother: Jane Esther Hall b. 22 Mar 1833 Cumberland, England d. 13 May 1905 'Windmill Farm' Edgecombe, Victoria, Australia
I can’t find a death date, a wife, or any children for Joseph John. I do know that he signs his Fathers probate papers in December 1890, in Kyneton I think. And that’s it.
What am I missing? Any assistance would be gratefully received.
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Family Search seems to have some records .
https://www.familysearch.org/search/record/results?count=20&query=%2Bgivenname%3A%22joseph%20john%22~%20%2Bsurname%3Asymons~%20%2Bbirth_place%3Aaustralia~%20%2Bbirth_year%3A1852-1856~
Also an arrest record in the police gazette.
Name: Joseph James Symons
[Arthur John Lewis]
Birth Year: abt 1857
Age: 50
Event Place: Hillston, New South Wales, Australia
Event Type: Other
Publication Date: 9 Jan 1907
Page #: 15
Richard
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Marriage reg. 3405/1878 Hay NSW, Joseph John Symons & Margaret Miller
M
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Also an arrest record in the police gazette.
Name: Joseph James Symons
[Arthur John Lewis]
Birth Year: abt 1857
Age: 50
Event Place: Hillston, New South Wales, Australia
Event Type: Other
Publication Date: 9 Jan 1907
Page #: 15
The above appears not to be the right fella.
NSW state archives
Goal indexes
SYMONS Joseph James Birth year 1852 Place of birth Canada Goal Goulburn Date of photo 06/05/1907 2066 19 NRS2232 [3/5976]
Alias: LEWIS, Arthur John
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Thank you. I did find those records too but I'm not convinced it's the right person either. I will keep searching.
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His brother's death notice in 1930 mentions him. He is not noted as deceased as some others are so maybe he was still alive then.
The Argus
Tue 24 Jun 1930
SYMONS. —On the 22nd June, at Kyneton, Arthur Albert Symons, dearly beloved brother of Jane (Mrs. T. Hay), Emily (Mrs. W. Dunham), Laura (Mrs. J. L Webster), David, Mrs. E. Keogh (deceased), Sophia (Mrs. P. Keogh), William (deceased), and Joseph, aged 56 years.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/4095188
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Thank you. I did find those records too but I'm not convinced it's the right person either. I will keep searching.
According to the ‘Crim Sheet’ the Joseph James SYMONS alias Arthur John LEWIS, that was born in Canada in 1852, arrived in NSW per the ‘Yeoman’ in 1869, and was an Engineer. He received a sentence of 12 months HL (Hard Labour) for Horse Stealing, from the Narrandera QS (Quarter Sessions) 25 March 1907. There are two photos on the Crim Sheet. They were taken 6 May 1907.
Here is a live link to the free to search NSW Archives Goal Inmates/Prisoners Photos Index.
https://www.records.nsw.gov.au/index_image/2232_a006_a00603_5976000019r
Here is the live link for the Index, notice on the left hand ‘margin’ there’s live links to the Criminal Court Records Index and to the Criminal Depositions (Deposition Books) Index.
https://www.records.nsw.gov.au/archives/collections-and-research/guides-and-indexes/gaol-inmates-prisoners-photos-index
The info there should help confirm that our OPs Joseph John SYMONS was NOT Joseph James SYMONS.
JM
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The Argus (Melbourne, Vic. : 1848 - 1957)
Wed 23 Dec 1942
HAY.-On December 13, at her residence, Seaholme, Mt. Martha, Jane E., relict of the late Thomas Hay, loved sister of Joseph (deceased) , William (deceased), Emily (deceased), Sophia (dereased), Sarah (deceased), Babe, Arthur (deceased), Laura (Mrs. Webster, Windmill Farm, Kyneton), aged 81 years. (Kyneton papers please copy.)
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/12010804
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Magnificent, thank you.
I've trawled Trove looking for Joseph, I was obviously not searching with the right words. That is definitely the right family. I will go back there and look for more.
Liz
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I am NSW centric, so not much chop with Vic searchings, however, I notice the following and I cannot check the Vic BDM listing to help there as it is down for maintenance until 19th Feb...
Joseph J SIMONS, postal electrician, died Abbotsford 16 June 1938, Probate 11 August 1938.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JVCN-7X7
Citing this Record
"Australia, Victoria, Index to Probate Registers, 1841-1989," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JVCN-7X7 : 11 March 2018), Joseph J Simons, 11 Aug 1938; citing Melbourne, Victoria, Australia, series 297, record 621, Public Record Office, Victoria; FamilySearch digital folder 004319410.
JM
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I think this would likely be the Joseph SIMONS postal electrician... An extra given middle name...
The Age, Sat 18 June 1938
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/206945515
On June 16, at his residence, .... Abbotsford, Joseph John Matthew Simons, (late of the G.P.O. Workshops), beloved husband of Susannah and loving father of .... beloved son of the late Joseph and Sarah Simons and fond brother of ....
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/206945602
The Age 18 June 1938
Simons ... to Boroondara Cemetery Kew ...
Simons .... Members of the Wangate Lodge .... beloved trustee, Brother Joe Simons ...
JM
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At Kew Cemetery, same plot - http://www.kewcemetery.com.au/search/FindGrave.php
Grave Location C/E C 1755
18-Sep-1903 SIMONS, Augusta Louisa 23
05-Jan-1904 SIMONS, Joseph F.O. 0
15-Aug-1954 SIMONS, Sussanah Alice 75
18 Jun 1938 SIMONS Joseph John Matthew 58
The Age 5 Jan 1904 p1
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/197240394?
SIMONS.— On the 3rd January, at 22 William-street, Abbotsford, Joseph Frederick Oliver, dearly beloved son of Joseph and the late Augusta Louise Simons, aged 10 months.
The Age 13 Aug 1954 p10
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/205689338?
SIMONS.— On August 11, at 1 Hunter Street, Abbotsford, Sussanah Alice, loved wife of the late
Joseph Simons, and loving mother of Doris. Winifred (Mrs. George), and Joseph.
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Just to add the Digger Death entry: ( always handy to be able to check these discs even if they are in DOS format!)
Simons, Jos Jno Matthew, father Joseph, mother Sarah Brownrigg, d 1938 age 58 VIC reg no 5102
shume australia
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The GPO electrician is definitely the wrong man. My Joseph John Symons' siblings are William, Emily, Jane, Sophia, Sarah, David, Laura and Arthur. Sorry, I probably should have said that earlier.
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I have checked other family notices but no mention of individuals like the ones i posted earlier.
The Vic BDM been down doesnt help at the moment neither.
Still looking tho :)
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The responses have been almost overwhelming. Thank you all so much. Please keep them coming.
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I think you should not ignore the marriage cited by matthewj64 between Joseph John SYMONS and Margaret MILLER.
There were 3 children in the Hillston area. I can give you their details if you can't access them on Vic BMD currently. edit NSW bmd
It is perhaps noteworthy that some of the children had names also seen in the family of Jos Samuel SYMONS and Jane (nee HALL).
The link to the criminal named John Arthur/Arthur John LEWIS/Joseph James SYMONS exists but is most unclear.
Further to the horse stealing case, the accused offers a few words describing his identity in the snip below.
Narandera Argus and Riverina Advertiser. Fri 29 Mar 1907.Quarter Sessions
The full article
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/130440033
I wonder if both Joseph John SYMONS ( your person of interest) and this SYMONS alias LEWIS were both in the same district at the same time. Lewis states he has not seen this brother since 1891.
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I keep coming back to the marriage between Joseph and Margaret Miller too. The children are available on Ancestry so I'll put them back in my tree (I took them out in case I was going down the wrong track).
Thank you for the other documents. It's all building an interesting story.
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The 1852 date of birth given on the gaol record for LEWIS AKA SYMONS places his birth outside the marriage of Jane HALL and Jos Sam SYMONS and this seems to be what the accused is saying in his statement above. Stepson.
Sue
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The stepson aspect is an interesting aspect. Family stories tell me that there were 2 illegitimate children in the family. I found one of them today; not this one though. I will pursue that line now too.
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Clearing my notes on this family.
So FYI ;D
Margaret Symons (Nee MILLER) died in 1915 in Victoria at her sister's home. Buried Footscray Cem. News clips show she was with her son William Thomas Robert SYMONS running the Gundar Hotel prior to this. She was an amputee. 1916 probate states widow. (Perhaps "lost touch")
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/131033515
Arthur John LEWIS had children with Annie (?)
Her likely death. LEWIS Annie Ellen 23231/1940 Par. MICHAEL & ELLEN at HAY
He deserted them.1900 snip Annie LEWIS wishes warrant for charge husband Arthur John Lewis deserting in Hay. He went to Gunbar.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/143533761
Annie Lewis lived on Gunbar road in Hay in 1900
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/143535349
A daughter placed "Return Thanks' at death of Annie in Hay hospital
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/139812900.
Sue
ADDING
Cemetery search using my own resources of the Hay and riverina district databases shows no interment for Joseph SYMONS.
Looks like the father of Jane HALL and his wife Ann HALL had left the Cumberland district and were in Melbourne at Moonee Ponds by 1850.
His will is digitised. Large estate.
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Thank you for all your hard work and fantastic assistance.
Liz