RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: cinny22 on Saturday 16 February 19 06:52 GMT (UK)
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Dear Team, Once again i'm at your mercy! I'm STUCK once again with a problem of which i 'm hoping you can give me a direction.
A couple of years ago, you solved the family mystery of my my G-Uncle Bertram Jones. YOU discovered that he was killed on board the ship Thracia. He never got to see his only daughter born.
I found the descendants of his daughter Marguerite and all is well.
I have recently realized that his then wife Gertrude Jones nee Hayes re-married and had another family!
Many months ago I thought i had found this second marriage, but as time went gone on it appears, I have made a mistake.
The Certificate i bought was: Gertrude Jones (M) Albert Stringer 11th Aug 1919. Liverpool. Witness: Daniel O'Neil and Lily Jones...............but it states on this certificate that Gertrude's Father is "William Jones" a Boiler Maker. Her father was Peter Hayes Engine Greaser, Merchant Service.
Initially, i believed that she had "slipped" under the radar with the false names.......but i have done a bit of research now on this, and can't find any children born to her.
I believe i know the "second marriage" children's names: xxxxxx, i can't find their births or marriages anywhere..........so think i have the wrong marriage certificate for my Gertrude Jones.
I have also checked the 1939 register, under Gertrude Jones and Stringer.....but no luck!
It is also wildly believed that Gertrude had a child prior to her marriage to my G-Uncle Bertram.....this child we believe was called xx. ( This could possibly be the xxx above)A few year ago, I received a letter from this xxxx who was then called xxxxx, she had a son called xxxxxx...........Her last known address was Liverpool. I was in contact with them, but now they are missing and i can't find them.
I have now exhausted all my efforts in trying to find these relatives, so have had to resort back to my new Marriage Certificate.
I now believe this certificate is the wrong one, can you help me to find the new marriage of Gertrude Jones nee Hayes? If i could find this, i'm sure i could find the other children and their families.
I thank you for all your help in the past, best wishes to all you wonderful people. Cinny22
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Link to earlier post looking for Gertrude
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=735838.0
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Yes rosie99,
as i said in my previous request, you all helped me solve this mystery of my G-Uncle Bertram.
I have now found his child's descendants, but now Bertram's wife has now re-married.........but to who?
I thought i had found and gotten the second marriage, but alas, not the right one and was hoping to find some help to getting the right second marriage.
Earlier today, I did confirm that the second marriage I THOUGHT was right to Albert Stringer is definitely wrong.............as i found that a Gertrude Stringer re-married to James William Pynter on the 19th Jan 1930, again she confirmed that her Father was: William Jones a Boiler Maker, as in the Certificate i have.
so definitely this Gertrude Jones/Stringer is not the right marriage, or family.
Thank you for your answering. Cinny22
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You have to be careful that you do not post the names of people who may still be alive.
With the names you have posted, have you started with Free BMD? https://www.freebmd.org.uk
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Yes, i have been through B.M.D and many other sites. I would not come to you unless i have exhausted all my avenues.
It's hard to find a new marriage when the person has been married before, as there are so many persons with the same name and with no parents exposed or named...............
Are we able to expunge the names that i have posted?
You all, are my "life line"
Best wishes, Cinny22
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two Medals were awarded for Bertram and given to his widow Mrs. G. Jones 48 Powis St, Liverpool on the 19th of Dec 1923.
Peter + Margaret Hayes listed at that address on the electoral registers.
A later address for Gertrude - 52(?) Berkley Street
So far only found Cluness there, and not Gertrude
That other address is from a (very) quick glimpse I got of her Mercantile Marine Index Card in the new WW1 pension records, she being the widow of Bertram of the Thracia, and with one child. The 48 Powis address was crossed out. Says PTO.
If there's more on the other side of the card, only a Fold3 member could get hold of it
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I was talking about the other names. I think you may have a wrong spelling for the first name in your post.
You may have a last known address.
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Yes i have the Award card and it says 48 Powis street. You say that there is a Peter and Margaret at this address............Gertrude's father was a Peter, but then again, i believe she also had a brother called Peter...........Margaret?????
If your talking about the person who contacted me and who had the son, yes i do have their last mail address, but i have sent mail to this address and ran "ad's" in the Liverpool papers, but got no reply.
But i feel if i can find Gertrude's new married name, i think, i could find her children birth, then their marriages and then their families......which is my objective, but it's just "finding" the new marriage!
Cinny 22
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Yes rosie99,
as i said in my previous request, you all helped me solve this mystery of my G-Uncle Bertram.
I have now found his child's descendants, but now Bertram's wife has now re-married.........but to who?
I linked to your earlier post where you were looking for Gertrudes marriage (not your post about Bertram) so that others could see what had already been discussed :)
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Sorry rosie99, i thought i had to "finish" one discussion to start another?.........sorry if i have messed things up.
Cinny22
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That was the card of Paul Bertram Jones that I was looking at, with his wife named on it
So the Berkley Street address probably not relevant :(
But she would be getting the pension...
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Do you mind my going back to Gertrude?
The address 48 Powis Street has been mentioned. In 1920s, Peter and Margaret Hayes are living there and in 1925, Thomas Peter Hayes is there.
There is a birth for Thomas Peter in 1902 mmn Conroy.
There is a Mary Gertrude b 1898 mmn Conroy.
In 1901 3414/159/22
Margaret Hayes and M Gertrude are with Conroy relatives.
1911 Margaret and her children are at the address shown on the medal card. I think her husband is a Seaman.
What is the occupation of Gertrude’s father on her marriage to Bertram?
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Hi,
The occupation for Peter Hayes on Gertrude's marriage is Engine Greaser, Merchant Service.
Does this mean that Peter is on ships..........perhaps this is how my G-Uncle Bertram, got his start in ships?
Can you explain this, i'm sorry i'm not sure what "mmm" means:
There is a birth for Thomas Peter in 1902 mmn Conroy.
There is a Mary Gertrude b 1898 mmn Conroy.
Thank you for your expertise. Cinny22
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Hi,
It means mother’s maiden name.
That is the right occupation for father, Peter - I just think you have the wrong Gertrude and mother’s name is Margaret not Ann.
Mary Gertrude Hayes was born 16th November 1898 and baptised 20th November 1898.
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Thank you. Sorry for the delay in answering, i have been trying to find the marriage of Peter Hayes to Margaret Conroy.............nothing as yet......will keep looking.
I will look also for the 1911 Census.
Will get back to you soon...................my best Cinny22
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two Medals were awarded for Bertram and given to his widow Mrs. G. Jones 48 Powis St, Liverpool on the 19th of Dec 1923.
Peter + Margaret Hayes listed at that address on the electoral registers.
A later address for Gertrude - 52(?) Berkley Street
So far only found Cluness there, and not Gertrude
That other address is from a (very) quick glimpse I got of her Mercantile Marine Index Card in the new WW1 pension records, she being the widow of Bertram of the Thracia, and with one child. The 48 Powis address was crossed out. Says PTO.
If there's more on the other side of the card, only a Fold3 member could get hold of it
Do you still want what is on P2 of this record. I have Fold3 access but struggling to find the record on ancestry
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Margaret Conroy married Peter Hayes 1894 Liverpool Register Office or Registrar attended
Burial Ford Cemetery 26th January 1931
Peter Hayes 60 yrs 48 Powis Street
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Hi
heywood lancsann
That would be very kind of you. Don't know if the other side of that card will help Cinny, but let's hope so!
Paul Bertram Jones
link from ancestry
https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=WesternFrontAssociation&indiv=try&h=1801
John
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It’s Lancsann who has details re the medal card :)
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Hi,
It means mother’s maiden name.
That is the right occupation for father, Peter - I just think you have the wrong Gertrude and mother’s name is Margaret not Ann.
Mary Gertrude Hayes was born 16th November 1898 and baptised 20th November 1898.
Brilliant finds, it's fitting together better now!
1911 free index on FamilySearch, ancestry is also free this weekend
M Gertrude Hayes
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWTM-GP8
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I don't know how you all do it..............you are the best!!!!
I have been searching for the marriage, but could not find it, thank you so much. I will most likely send for this Marriage. I did find the Census!
Now the death you have shown me........is that for Margaret or Peter?
Tomorrow, i will re arrange all my family on the tree and put things in order........thanks to you all.
We still have the original problem tho'..........the new marriage of Gertrude Jones?
I guess it is good to get all the background right first! I'm ever so grateful......
Thank you also jonw65........it was nice to see the other side of the award......Cinny22
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The death was for Peter.
You say you have Marguerite’s details. Did she marry with the Jones surname?
Was their an address for her?
Going back to the details where there is a possibility that the person may be living, you can just go to that post and clock ‘modify’ and then remove the name/s.
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Yes, Marguerite married under her maiden surname of Jones. Her address on the marriage was 7 Denford Road, Knolty Ash???
She married John Parkes 18th May 1934......West Derby.
Will now go and remove the names................Cinny22
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Just a bit about Margaret's death from newspapers (FMPAST):
HAYES—September 15. In hospital, aged 71 years. MARGARET HAYES, widow of Peter Hayes, and late 48 Powis Street. Interment at Ford Cemetery, to-morrow (Tuesday), at 3 p.m. (Australian papers please copy.)
September 18, 1939 - Liverpool Daily Post - Liverpool, Lancashire
.........................
Maureen
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Good find Maureen :)
Now who was in Australia?
Burial residence address - 42 Belmont Road which could be a hospital/institution.
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It’s Lancsann who has details re the medal card :)
So sorry lancsann.
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Yes, Marguerite married under her maiden surname of Jones. Her address on the marriage was 7 Denford Road, Knolty Ash???
She married John Parkes 18th May 1934......West Derby.
Will now go and remove the names................Cinny22
That address may be of interest in 1939. We aren’t allowed to post any details re the 1939 register - Nothing definite though.
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That address may be of interest in 1939. We aren’t allowed to post any details re the 1939 register - Nothing definite though.
The lady seems to have the same date of birth as MGH. Surely you have cracked it?
John
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This is strange
Electoral register
7 Denford Road
1935 Gertrude Gresty
1939 Mary Gresty
1945 Gertrude Jones
Other occupant Thomas Gresty
There is a marriage 1939 for Thomas Gresty and Mary Hayes
1939 would definitely help you.
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That address may be of interest in 1939. We aren’t allowed to post any details re the 1939 register - Nothing definite though.
The lady seems to have the same date of birth as MGH. Surely you have cracked it?
John
That may be so but see my other post - there seems to be a bit of a puzzle, I think.
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There is a death 1954 for a Mary G Gresty born about 1900.
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Another puzzle, surely not!
Gertrude Jones being there could be a coincidence. I have noticed during the searches that there seem to be tons of Jones everywhere you look in Liverpool.
Denford Road is weird for me, because the man at number 51 on the electoral register (who had a wife called Ada who disappeared shortly before) is someone I think might have adopted a certain person!
1935 electoral register
7 Denford Road
Gresty, Thomas
Gresty, Gertrude
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I have been trying to find the 1939 Register...........but can't seem to find the right family.
Now the strange name of Gesty?? If my memory serves me correctly, could this be Gertrude's new husband? Altho you say she is in the 1939 as Gertrude Jones?
Cinny 22...........will keep looking for the 1939
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the 2nd page of that pension record for Paul Bernard Jones after 48 Powis Street has been crossed out is:
15 (16) Wilding (v hard to read under the crossing out) Street Claremont? (Clubwood) Liverpool
48 Powis Street again
86 Peak***ff Street ?? Liverpool (also crossed out)
76 Enford Road Knotty Ash (I think that is right - it has been written in more elaborate script) - but could be 7 Denford Road as found earlier
Because of all the crossing out the card is difficult to read and all in different handwriting so nothing to compare letters with but it may give some clues
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the 2nd page of that pension record for Paul Bernard Jones after 48 Powis Street has been crossed out is:
15 (16) Wilding (v hard to read under the crossing out) Street Claremont? (Clubwood) Liverpool
48 Powis Street again
86 Peak***ff Street ?? Liverpool (also crossed out)
76 Enford Road Knotty Ash (I think that is right - it has been written in more elaborate script) - but could be 7 Denford Road as found earlier
Because of all the crossing out the card is difficult to read and all in different handwriting so nothing to compare letters with but it may give some clues
Ann, thank you so much. I think you could be right about it possibly reading Denford Road. Which would clinch it. Knotty Ash is right.
John
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Hi,
It means mother’s maiden name.
That is the right occupation for father, Peter - I just think you have the wrong Gertrude and mother’s name is Margaret not Ann.
Mary Gertrude Hayes was born 16th November 1898 and baptised 20th November 1898.
baptism record say Margaret nee Conroy and godparents were John & Joanna Conroy
it also says as a margin note she married Bernard Jones on 8 July 1916 at (I think) St Patrick's Liverpool) and an address of 51 Pitt Street
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That all fits re Mary Gertrude /Gertrude who married Bertram.
In the first post, two children were mentioned but may still be alive. Looking through BMD indexes for those two names shows births which may be the ones you mention cinny 22.
But ... where would they be in 1939?
It is getting a bit puzzling now.
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Hi Heywood,
I eventually found the 1939 Register. It shows tho' that Gertrude is still under "Jones" and seem she has not re-married? It says she is a widow and is a Barmaid.
These two children mentioned previously............is there any way you can give me their surnames or dates of birth?
Cinny22
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That’s what confused me at first.
A couple of things cinny.
Re 1939 - look at the occupants and dates of birth and compare to the birth I gave you earlier re Mary Gertrude (I will find the post in a minute).
Re the births I chose one of the names and searched Free BMD with first names and mother’s surname Hayes.
See reply #13 re date of birth
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I eventually found the 1939 Register. It shows tho' that Gertrude is still under "Jones" and seem she has not re-married? It says she is a widow and is a Barmaid.
But this isn't your "Gertrude"
Your one is above her and the redacted entry - Mary Gresty aka Gertrude Gresty and who probably died 1954, registered as Mary Gertrude Gresty
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Burial at Yew Tree Cemetery, 8 November 1954
Mary Gertrude Gresty
residence Broadgreen Hospital
age 54
grave 1D 199
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Burial at Yew Tree Cemetery, 8 November 1954
Mary Gertrude Gresty
residence Broadgreen Hospital
age 54
grave 1D 199
Great :)
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I eventually found the 1939 Register. It shows tho' that Gertrude is still under "Jones" and seem she has not re-married? It says she is a widow and is a Barmaid.
But this isn't your "Gertrude"
Your one is above her and the redacted entry - Mary Gresty aka Gertrude Gresty and who probably died 1954, registered as Mary Gertrude Gresty
That Gertrude Jones could have been a relative of Thomas (sister in law maybe) as Thomas's mmn was Jones
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Thank you jonw65............i did not realize that, so she did marry him! I will look for this marriage later in the afternoon, as it's almost 2 am here and have to get up early.
I have had a quick look for the "children" in Bmd, but could not find anything suitable. Will have a rest now and come back fresh.
We really did get through quite a bit and i must thank you all again for the wonderful information and dedication you all give. Thank you also for the death i have just received for Mary Gertrude....much appreciated. Thank you so much toooooo Heywood.
What would we do with out you all??????
I must say "good night" and thank you all once again. Cinny22
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Goodnight cinny :)
If there are two children as Cinny thinks, then there should be two redacted entries.
The difficulty is that none of the surnames are uncommon.
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but Thomas Gresty & Mary/Gertrude did not marry until 1939 so any children of theirs unlikely to be on the 1939 register
Marriages Jun 1939 (>99%)
Gresty Thomas J Hayes Liverpool N. 8b 1119
Hayes Mary Gresty Liverpool N. 8b 1119
I think this is one for a marriage certificate to see who Mary's father was
Another weird coincidence is that the Gertrude Jones in 1939 has exactly the same birth date as the original Gertrude Hayes brother Charles Francis
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The children were born before that marriage and have a different surname,
It is difficult because the original post gave details which coukd be living persons.
That is, if they are the right people, of course.
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The surname I get (D.....) for the now removed other names ;D yes, it is neither Jones or Gresty. But if Mr Gresty and Mary Gertrude were together for some years before the marriage - then why that name?
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I have no idea :)
I will pm.
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Hi my good people,
Thank you once again. Now, yesterday i found the marriage for Hayes and Gresty and have ordered it.....it will be at least 3 weeks tho!!! I feel sure it is the right one.
Now the "new" Children. Firstly, is there any way i could send you a copy of the letter i received from child Axx.............i do have a feeling that she has passed, but she did have a son Dxx. It was him that i originally found, via newspaper adverts, and he always referred all questions to his Mom.....but this was at least 8 or so years ago. I have advertised again for D to reconnect, but got no replies.
With in this original letter sent by Axx to half brother??.....(still alive) she states that Collette has just passed away in 2001!!!!She goes onto saying that Gertrude was BOTH their Grandmothers and that SHE had her mother BEFORE, she met and married Bertram Jones!!!!!
I'm beginning to think that possibly Collette and Child "D" were both Axx's children???
As i said also in my original inquiry to you all...........i do have Axx's possible Married name....it' on this letter.
Thank you all so much for your wisdom................Cinny22
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Hi Cinny,
I messaged Jon with some thoughts re the names but they were based on C and A being sisters so not sure now.
I am sure he will be in touch with you about this and other information.
Personal message isn’t ideal - this should be open but it is important that we don’t mention living people.
I might be off for a few days, not sure, but I hope it can be solved soon.
Heywood
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Thank you for all your help...............like you, i do hope we can get to the bottom of it all.
When the marriage certificate arrives, i may tell you all, all about the contents.
I was also thinking of getting the Death of Mary Gertrude Gresty........this should have the informant.
It's sad that the English certificates aren't like the Australian ones. With our Death Certificates, it informs you of all the children born to the person, ages and how long they have been married and to whom, and how long they have been in Australia......if they had immigrated.
The Scottish Certificate are good too.........
Thank you again and please enjoy your time off.......Cinny22
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deleted, error
PM sent to cinny
John
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Hi jonw65, heywood sent me a message, but not sure if she got it? Are you able to find out?
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Hi jonw65, heywood sent me a message, but not sure if she got it? Are you able to find out?
Hi
We are probably on the same track (I hope!)
I'll try and find out!
I've also sent you a message about Collette and possible mum.
I think we are getting there.
John
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Yes i have sent you a reply. Hope you got it? Cinny22
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Please could you let us all know if you reach any conclusions. This post has really intrigued me and I have tried all sorts of avenues but did not take note of the original names which are now of course deleted.
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Hi
I haven't got it, I don't know about heywood!
I am terrible with the messaging and used just to post back the original message from the sender!
I think when you get a message you just need to click on Reply at the top.
John
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Good morning jonw65,
Yes, i have been through all the information you sent..........it does seem possible, and makes sense.
The name Mary Frances would be traditional as Gertrude's name was either Mary Gertrude or the other way round.
Yes, i do think you are on the right track.
If you are pretty sure we are right...............i will send for the marriage of Hayes and Davies.......and we will see, but it will take a while.
jonw65, i do hope you are getting these messages ok and that i am doing it alright? Please let me know, if it is correct.
would you like a copy of the letter?
Best wishes and thanks so much,
Shirley.
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The above message was sent to me in error by cinny. You replied to the email that lets you know that you have a new post on RootsChat.
Regards
Sarah
Hi, yes the name was Ann ...........her address was Netherley. Her telephone was; xxxxx......but don't think now it is connected.
Thank you,
Shirley.
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Thank you Sarah.
And cinny of course!
John
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Yes John, this is what i did, just sent by clicking "reply" at the top.
Never the less, i put all the information into my Ancestry tree, with the hopes of connecting with "some one" if it was correct................GUESS WHAT the information IS correct and i now have "D" on Ancestry and all the information you found has been correct.
"D" has not been on his site for a year, but have sent my email address with a message.
Now i will also send for this marriage in Pancras. I have found that Mary F has died in 1999, Merseyside, Liverpool. I may also get this Certificate.
I only hope "D" communicates, as i want to find out about his Mother "A"
I just received a reply from your team, they mentioned that i sent the "replies" to rootweb. I do hope i have not "hurt" my standing by doing this. I tried to delete the name of "A", but could not do it.
Hope every thing is still ok?
What more can i say, you are all so brilliant.
My best Cinny22.
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Hi cinny
Everything is OK. You're standing tall!
Do check everything first re the marriage in Pancras, because it is way out of area. It's all I could find. I'll have another look into it, a short delay in ordering won't hurt and I would hate to be the cause of you getting the wrong one! I'll come back on that shortly.
If you contact Sarah and ask her to remove the name then I am sure she will help. You won't be able to do that yourself.
John
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Yes ok John, i will hold off for a while getting the Certificate. By putting all the information into my tree, it did tho match up with "D's" tree............but possibly only through Mary F.
Thank you i will email Sarah, altho "A" has passed now i'm pretty sure, but best to be sure.
Thank you again so much............my best to you, Shirley.
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Have just found the "real" name of "A" and to whom she married.
Elizabeth A is the real Christian name, was born 1939 in Prescot, Liverpool and the surname is "D" that you found earlier. She married in 1958 to the surname "T" that i previously stated.............the husband "T T" passed March 2008, in Liverpool.
Thought i would share this with you. Cinny22
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Hi cinny
Yes, I think we have got there!
I'm getting nowhere with the possible marriage though. It's not really surprising with that surname being so common.
There are a David Alfred, and a Mary F together on the Liverpool electorals after the war, who might be them :-\ That is, if he only used his first name on the marriage. Although I've looked at quite a few years and not seen anyone at all with listed them.
Mary F with right date of birth died in Liverpool in 1999.
John
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Thanks John, yes i recon' your right............i will still hold off before sending for the Certificate. I'm HOPING that "D" will contact.
I also found Collette's connection to the same couple. Did you get the message about Elizabeth A?
I see by "D" tree, there were more children. I do hope he contacts, it will put all our minds at rest.
My best to you, Shirley.
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Hi cinny
Elizabeth A, yes I got that, thank you. I haven't seen the tree you mention, but I hope that you do manage to get in touch with the owner and see if they can fill in any gaps.
More children is certainly possible.
If only Mr Davies had been at home in 1939, then we would have his first name for sure, and it would have made things easier for us. That area is not covered by the Liverpool electoral registers, so no help there.
Good luck!
John
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Thanks for all your help...........your the best. Take care, Cinny22
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Going well :)
I am online here.
Everything seems to be as we found from the original names so that’s good.
Just one thing, Mr Davies would not be on the scene in 1939 - Gertrude was Mary Gresty then wasn’t she?
I did get your message Cinny but it was just mine that was returned. I gave Jon the info I had gleaned which he has passed on to you I think.
Fingers crossed we are getting there. :)
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Good morning Heywood,
I think Mr. Davies should be "somewhere" as he would have been born some were around the same time as Mary Frances 1914 daughter of Gertrude. We think they married 1936, Pancras???
Mary F is there with Collette, in the 1939 but Mr. Davies is obversely working away.
Did you read that i found "D" who i was in contact with via the newspapers? He is on Ancestry and his Father is named and there is a photo! I only hope he contacts me.
You and jonw65 have been wonderful and it has been my pleasure in working with you all and both.
I'm sending for a couple of Certificates..........so i can check the parents. Will keep you all informed, but they will be a couple of weeks.
Take care and thanks so much............Cinny22
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Yes I saw D and the brief ‘tree’.
I think I am still confused re Collette and the Davies connection but am getting there. We just need to wait now. :)
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Found it all - thanks
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Yes, Collette was born 28 Apr 1936 and was Mary F's child. She died in 2002.
You know it is possible also that her sister Elizabeth A....."A" who wrote the letter, had more than one child. We know that "D" is one...............Elizabeth A had at least three other children and could have called one of her children Collette after her sister?
When i examined "D's" tree there is a "Jones" born 1949 attached........it will be interesting if he makes contact. His mother "A" also has a tree.
We have had a rocky and terrifying ride, like a roller coaster, but it has been very enjoyable working with the professionals.
Can i keep in contact to let you know of any progress...........if your interested??
Bye for now, Cinny22
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Cinny,
just post your results on here. Lancsann posted her interest and there will be others who have read it too. :)
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Well my dear researchers, i have finally got the "certificates" back. One for the death of Mary Gertrude....all fits well, but.............the marriage of Mary Frances Hayes/Davies has more questions than answers?
I thought by getting this certificate we would find her Fathers name...........well the Father on this certificate is..........Alfred Hayes a "Seaman Merchant Service" Deceased by 1936. This profession seems ok for our "Hayes" family, as a few had the same position. The marriage is in St. Pancaras.
I have been searching for his Death all afternoon, and have not found it.
David Davies (her husband) is listed as a "Bricklayer" and his Father is John Davies, also a Bricklayer.
While researching today i did find/noticed "something" interesting..........altho the dates are a little off!
Mary Gertrude's parents were Peter and Margaret, but Peter had a brother George who married a Sarah Ann. Now it was in this family that i found a Alfred Hayes. He would be a Cousin to Mary Gertrude.................but........Mary was born 1898 and Alfred was born 1903, and i can't see them having a child together by 1915. Interesting tho there is a Gertrude Hayes also in George's family.
I really can't see must else for it but to find Mary Frances Hayes, birth and apply for the Certificate. This should sort this out once and for all.