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Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: janjim on Tuesday 19 February 19 10:58 GMT (UK)
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Hi,
Am trying to find shipping records for John Perry b. 1844 Redruth Cornwall, and his wife Elizabeth b. 1845 Redruth, who sailed to New Zealand from the UK in the years between 1863 to 1867.
John & Elizabeth Perry married 19.9.1863 at Redruth. We know of one son Arthur Perry who was born at Dunedin in 1867, but there could have been another child who came to New Zealand with the parents.
If anyone could assist with shipping records, including any details of family members, would really appreciate your help.
Thanking you,
Regards Jan
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UK shipping lists only started in 1890 I'm afraid.
However, I note that John's wife was Elizabeth Ann Davey - GRO's own index shows they had 2 children here in the UK but both died:
Elizabeth Ann Perry - Dec.qtr.1863 Redruth - mmn Davey - died Dec.1863
Thomas Henry Perry - Dec.qtr.1864 Redruth - mmn Davey - died Dec.1864
Annette
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Annette,
Thank you, what a shame, no shipping records until then. I wonder if we can find any further records of the family then in New Zealand.
Regards
Jan
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Try family search, NZ passenger lists
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If anyone could assist with shipping records, including any details of family members, would really appreciate your help.
Hi Jan
Can't help immediately with shipping record but here are burial and headstone details for Arthur PERRY and wife, Mary.
https://www.dunedin.govt.nz/facilities/cemeteries/cemeteries_search?recordid=12450&type=Burial
~ Lu
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At this link > >
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C915-J7LF-6?i=942&cc=1865481
Probate file for Mary Reid PERRY (widow of Arthur PERRY) includes copy of her Will which contains names of her six children.
~ Lu
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1867/29789 Perry Arthur Elizabeth John
[actual date of birth was 16.11.1867]
Obituary of Arthur Perry [1936]…….
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/ESD19360815.2.87?query=arthur%20perry&phrase=2&start_date=01-01-1936&end_date=31-12-1936&snippet=true&title=ODT,ESD
[His year of birth as stated in the obituary appears to be incorrect]
1936/20929 Perry Arthur 68Y
Minniehaha.
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Thank you Lu.
Jan
At this link > >
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C915-J7LF-6?i=942&cc=1865481
Probate file for Mary Reid PERRY (widow of Arthur PERRY) includes copy of her Will which contains names of her six children.
~ Lu
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Minnie haha
Thanks for this information. I am wondering whether Arthur had any other siblings in Dunedin.
Jan
1867/29789 Perry Arthur Elizabeth John
[actual date of birth was 16.11.1867]
Obituary of Arthur Perry [1936]…….
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/ESD19360815.2.87?query=arthur%20perry&phrase=2&start_date=01-01-1936&end_date=31-12-1936&snippet=true&title=ODT,ESD
[His year of birth as stated in the obituary appears to be incorrect]
1936/20929 Perry Arthur 68Y
Minniehaha.
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Hi Jan,
Do you know when & where John & Elizabeth Perry died?
Minniehaha.
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No, we don't have any information on John & Elizabeth Perry's deaths. Would imagine they were in Dunedin.
Jan
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Seems to be at least two John Perry in newspapers
One, of the 68th regiment, wounded July 1864
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/ODT18640718.2.34.2?query=John%20perry&phrase=2&page=2&start_date=01-01-1863&end_date=31-12-1870&snippet=true&title=LCM,LCP,LWM,ME,MIC,MTBM,NOT,OAM,ODT,OSWCC,OW,ST,TT,SOCR,WSTAR,AHCOG,BH,CL,CROMARG,DUNST,ESD
Is it possible John came out with a regiment, and Elizabeth followed later?
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Might this Dunedin death 1875 be your John?
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/ESD18750925.2.4?query=John%20perry&phrase=2&start_date=01-01-1863&end_date=31-12-1900&snippet=true&title=LCM,LCP,LWM,ME,MIC,MTBM,NOT,OAM,ODT,OSWCC,OW,ST,TT,SOCR,WSTAR,AHCOG,BH,CL,CROMARG,DUNST,ESD
What was your John’s occupation? Address at birth of Arthur?
Added, this one was an engineer age 66 so probably not yours.
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This seems to be that 1875 death.....
Surname PERRY
Forename JOHN
Age 58 Years
Gender Male
Date of Death 26 Sep 1875
Last Address DUNEDIN
Next of Kin
Funeral Director Not recorded
Cemetery NORTHERN CEMETERY
Location Block 22. Plot 9
Date of Burial 26 Sep 1875
Type Burial
Occupation
Place of Birth
Date of Birth Not recorded
Notes Original reference:- N18750918
Occupation:- ENGINEER
Native of:- SCOTLAND
Years in NZ:- 12
Place died:- DUNEDIN
The following burials are also in this Plot
MITCHELL BABY 3 Days, Burial, Died 24 Jun 1877
Headstone images for this Plot
There were none found
[Not the right age]
Minniehaha.
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Hi,
Thank you everyone for this information, certainly looks like our man buried 1875. Just need to refer back to family member for confirmation.
Elizabeth Perry, wondering if anyone has found death for her then, maybe this might give me a better picture.
Thank you all very much for this.
Jan
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Hi again,
The only thing with this death in 1875, John Perry aged 58 years, doesn't coincide with information we had on him. We had John Perry b.1844, which would have made him only 33 years of age, and he was born in Redruth, Cornwall.
I need to check on his occupation too, and will get back to you.
Jan
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The Tapanui John PERRY, sawmiller etc (and who has several children's births announced in newspapers) seems to have died 1901 and his dob is c 1844.
How have you got back to the 1844 John in Cornwall if you don't have his death already?
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I don't think the 1875 death is yours.
Even if the cemetery records are incorrect age-wise, there was only one death registered in 1875 for a John Perry and that age does not fit either.....
1875/5638 Perry John 66Y
Minniehaha.
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The Tapanui John PERRY, sawmiller etc (and who has several children's births announced in newspapers) seems to have died 1901 and his dob is c 1844.
How have you got back to the 1844 John in Cornwall if you don't have his death already?
Oh No. the Tapanui John was (according to the cemetery record) born NSW.
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Who was the John PERRY married to Clara Amelia? He died 1918 about the right age.
they had children. There are other newspaper notices.
John PERRY married Clara Emily COOK 1874. Might Elizabeth have died and he remarried?
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The wife of the John Perry of Tapanui who died in 1901, was named Margaret.......
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9B7-PSXB-H?i=155&cc=1865481
Minniehaha.
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Who was the John PERRY married to Clara Amelia? He died 1918 about the right age.
they had children. There are other newspaper notices.
John PERRY married Clara Emily COOK 1874. Might Elizabeth have died and he remarried?
This John was the brother of Simon and William PERRY and Mrs Charles KING
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/ESD19050131.2.14?query=clara%20amelia%20perry&phrase=2&start_date=01-01-1867&end_date=31-12-1930&snippet=true&title=LCM,LCP,LWM,ME,MIC,MTBM,NOT,OAM,ODT,OSWCC,OW,ST,TT,SOCR,WSTAR,AHCOG,BH,CL,CROMARG,DUNST,ESD
Added. Sorry it was Clara who died 1918, John died 1905 age 59, so still about the right age.
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The wife of the John Perry of Tapanui who died in 1901, was named Margaret.......
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9B7-PSXB-H?i=155&cc=1865481
Minniehaha.
From the names given in the above will, I believe the following is the marriage of that particular John Perry.........
1867/9907 Margaret Telford John Perry
Minniehaha.
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Hi everyone
Well I am absolutely confused, need to consult with my cousin for more directions. Thank you all for this information so far, will get back to you.
jan
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Hi Jan
Are you aware that there are at least three "trees" at ancestry.com site for Arthur PERRY ???
Only one of them (Richardson draft tree), gives the names of parents (John PERRY / Elizabeth nee GRAY -- each of which have two asterisks alongside, seemingly denoting that info is possibly incorrect ?)
In respect of Arthur PERRY, there are "details" which give his cause of death (and prior illnesses);
names of parents (as given above ^); states he was a "retired storeman" .
The source of this particular info is not recorded.
[My note: "Cause of death (prior illnesses)" could possibly come from death certificate ?? ]
Further, there is a note placed alongside of the information given for the marriage of Arthur PERRY and Mary Reid EVANS which reads ... { Certificate ordered 7 February 2019 } .
So by now (20 February 2019), the "certificate " might have been received by the tree owner ? ;)
[For the marriage registration, it is the bride and groom themselves who are supplying the information (usually a most reliable source). In the case of a NZ Marriage record of the era 1889, you can expect to find the names of both sets of parents, plus occupations of fathers -- along with the usual details recorded for the bride and groom. If it is a marriage "certificate" which has been ordered, it's likely it will not show the names of witnesses to marriage. Our recommendation here at this site, is to suggest purchasing "a printout" (copy of the register entry), same price, but which contains more detail. ]
Perhaps it's worth getting in touch with the tree owner ??
~ Lu
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... incidentally, meant to mention that a daughter (1902) of Arthur PERRY and Mary EVANS, was named Jessie Eliza Gray PERRY ( a 'nod" to his mother's maiden name, perhaps ??)
~ Lu
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NZ School records :
Just a shout out :) .... can anybody help please with a Dunedin school record for Arthur PERRY born November 1867 ??
His obituary states he was ... born at Castle Street ... educated at the George Street and Normal Schools.
Cheers
~ Lu
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Lu,
Yes, you are right, this is my cousin's draft tree, still working on various aspects of the family.
There appears to be a mistake on the marriage certificate that she has for John Perry and Elizabeth Gray, where Elizabeth is shown as Elizabeth Davey, rather than Gray. She thinks it is a transcription error, being a certificate my cousin ordered just recently. It is not the original certificate.
The death certificate still has not arrived.
Regards
Jan
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Hi Jan
The record I referred to earlier (from the draft Richardson tree), was the note relating to the ordering of the New Zealand marriage certificate for Arthur PERRY and Mary (Reid) EVANS - year 1889.
This was where it said {Certificate ordered 7 February 2019}.
Can you clarify if that's the one that hasn't arrived (you've said "death certificate" has still not arrived, in your post) ?? ;)
~ Lu
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Lu,
Sorry, my mistake, sorry Death Certificate has arrived of Arthur Perry 14.8.1936 died at 8 Richmond Street, South Dunedin, showing 3 Sons and 3 Daughters.
Also in possession is marriage certificate of John Perry & Elizabeth Ann Davey on the 19th September, 1863. It is thought that there has been a transcription error, should have been Elizabeth Ann Gray.
Jan
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Hi Lu,
So we are waiting on now for Arthur Perry's birth and marriage records. Should be arriving any day now.
Jan
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There appears to be a mistake on the marriage certificate that she has for John Perry and Elizabeth Gray, where Elizabeth is shown as Elizabeth Davey, rather than Gray. She thinks it is a transcription error, being a certificate my cousin ordered just recently. It is not the original certificate.
If the births given by Annette are their children then it is unlikely that a mistake was made three times.
However, I note that John's wife was Elizabeth Ann Davey - GRO's own index shows they had 2 children here in the UK but both died:
Elizabeth Ann Perry - Dec.qtr.1863 Redruth - mmn Davey - died Dec.1863
Thomas Henry Perry - Dec.qtr.1864 Redruth - mmn Davey - died Dec.1864
Where did the name GRAY come from?
Debra :)
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There appears to be a mistake on the marriage certificate that she has for John Perry and Elizabeth Gray, where Elizabeth is shown as Elizabeth Davey, rather than Gray. She thinks it is a transcription error, being a certificate my cousin ordered just recently. It is not the original certificate.
You can see the original church record on FamilySearch and probably elsewhere
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-695Y-YF?i=960&cc=1769414&cat=486988
Elizabeth Anne Davey, 19, Spinster, residence United Mines, father William Davey (deceased), Miner.
Both John Perry and Elizabeth marked (though not with the usual X!)
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Hi Jan
Thanks for the updated info and clarification.
Yes, I can see that marriage record (transcription of same) PERRY-DAVEY - 1863 at the Cornwall site.
** But interested to know (and I think question was asked earlier in this thread? ), how it is that your cousin knows that Arthur PERRY's parents, hailed from Cornwall, UK. ???
Unfortunately, it wasn't until 1875 that "Marriage details/age and birthplaces of Parents on [New Zealand] Birth Registrations" came into effect. So that extra information won't be available from Arthur's 1867 Birth registration. :(
~ Lu
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Lu,
Sorry, my mistake, sorry Death Certificate has arrived of Arthur Perry 14.8.1936 died at 8 Richmond Street, South Dunedin, showing 3 Sons and 3 Daughters.
Jan
Hi again Jan
** Can you please tell us if the death Certificate (or "printout") has the names Arthur's parents ... his mother's maiden name and his father's occupation. ?
Cheers
~ Lu
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Baptism at Gwennap, where the marriage was, of an Elizabeth Ann Davey. Father William. But, caution, there are a lot of Daveys in that area!
14 April 1844
Elizabeth Ann
daughter of William + Elizabeth Davey
abode Sunny Corner
father a Miner
Image here
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-6WS7-7GY?i=1380&cc=1769414&cat=486988
If this is her in 1851 in Gwennap, mother Elizabeth is already widowed
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGKV-96Q
And they are found in Sunny Corner in 1861.
Looking at that family, possible birth reg
March 1844 Redruth vol 9 page 296
Davey, Elizabeth Ann
mother's maiden surname Perry
William Davey (signed Davy) married Elizabeth Perry, 10 May 1835, Gwennap
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-6WS7-4Y3?i=891&cc=1769414&cat=486988
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GRO's own index shows they had 2 children here in the UK but both died:
Elizabeth Ann Perry - Dec.qtr.1863 Redruth - mmn Davey - died Dec.1863
Thomas Henry Perry - Dec.qtr.1864 Redruth - mmn Davey - died Dec.1864
A new burial ground was opened in Gwennap in August 1855
Burial there, 12 October 1863, might be Elizabeth Ann
Infant Child of Jno Perry
place death occurred - United Mines
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-GGFY-LCC?i=84&cc=1769414&cat=1923517
No luck so far with Thomas Henry.
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Good morning Lu,
Death certificate for Arthur Perry definitely shows Mother Elizabeth Perry (nee Gray), Father John Perry.
Sorry I am trying to pick up on all of this, I was only looking for shipping records on behalf of my cousin, first of all, and I think now I need for her to get on to this site.
Jan
Lu,
Sorry, my mistake, sorry Death Certificate has arrived of Arthur Perry 14.8.1936 died at 8 Richmond Street, South Dunedin, showing 3 Sons and 3 Daughters.
Jan
Hi again Jan
** Can you please tell us if the death Certificate (or "printout") has the names Arthur's parents ... his mother's maiden name and his father's occupation. ?
Cheers
~ Lu
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Any connection?
1862
Births in the District of Launceston
Born 25 July
name (none)
sex Male
father John Perry
mother Elizabeth Perry formerly Gray
rank/profession of father Engineer
Image here
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QSQ-G9CH-46CD?i=25&cc=2125029
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That might fit with that 1875 death in Dunedin of John Perry an Engineer, rather than the Redruth marriage.
cemetery record says born Scotland, but i am sure I saw NSW somewhere last night.
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Well yes, that is very interesting, could very easily be the case now, Arthur born in Launceston 1862. Will get back on that.
Jan
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Good morning Jan ... thanks for the clarification and apologies for bombarding you with questions. ;)
I can understand the position you're in with researching this for someone else.
I'd agree, bringing your cousin on board here, seems like a very good idea. ;)
Have some more info to add, shortly.
~ Lu
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Thank you Mckha, this raises a better possibility now. I think that my cousin got it wrong, on where John Perry was born.
Jan
That might fit with that 1875 death in Dunedin of John Perry an Engineer, rather than the Redruth marriage.
cemetery record says born Scotland, but i am sure I saw NSW somewhere last night.
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Hi Lu,
I have contacted my cousin, and it appears that she was not absolutely certain that John Perry came from Cornwall, so it looks like we can delete this connection now.
We are looking more towards Tasmania now. Sorry if I've confused everyone.
Jan
Hi Jan
Thanks for the updated info and clarification.
Yes, I can see that marriage record (transcription of same) PERRY-DAVEY - 1863 at the Cornwall site.
** But interested to know (and I think question was asked earlier in this thread? ), how it is that your cousin knows that Arthur PERRY's parents, hailed from Cornwall, UK. ???
Unfortunately, it wasn't until 1875 that "Marriage details/age and birthplaces of Parents on [New Zealand] Birth Registrations" came into effect. So that extra information won't be available from Arthur's 1867 Birth registration. :(
~ Lu
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Another one in Launceston!
A female born 29 Feb 1860
father John Perry, Engineer
mother Eliza Gray
So, Eliza on this one. Does not say "formerly Gray".
Image
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-89CH-78X5?i=10&cc=2125029
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John, Thank you, we're moving along now, looks like this should be the family now.
Jan
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Hi Jan,
This seems to be a very confusing situation. We started off in Cornwall, then went to New Zealand and at present are searching in Australia with nothing definitely confirming that it is 'your' family.
I think it would be helpful if you could please tell us the last confirmed information you have about 'your' Perry family. We could then start to work backwards for you and try to fill in the gaps. :)
Minniehaha.
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Minniehaha
Yes, I am sorry about this, and I apologise most profusely, I was given information, which we now find was incorrect. Awaiting on two certificates for Arthur Perry and his wife from New Zealand, and when these arrive, will be able to confirm more information.
Yes, my cousin believed the family came from Cornwall, but this is now correct. I put a posting on this website, mainly to find shipping records from UK, and once again, I state that information for the Perry's coming from Cornwall was incorrect. My cousin is 85 years of age, and was diving into the deep blue ocean, so to speak, she has done a lot of searching, but gone off the right track on the correct family.
So what we see now is that John Perry was living in Launceston, Tasmania from approximately 1860 onwards, working as an Engineer, and it appears then that the family moved to New Zealand. For whatever reason we do not know yet, maybe to work in the mines over there.
I cannot tell you any more than that, at this stage.
My apologies.
Jan
IHi Jan,
This seems to be a very confusing situation. We started off in Cornwall, then went to New Zealand and at present are searching in Australia with nothing definitely confirming that it is 'your' family.
I think it would be helpful if you could please tell us the last confirmed information you have about 'your' Perry family. We could then start to work backwards for you and try to fill in the gaps. :)
Minniehaha.
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No need to apologise Jan. :)
Just trying to get a clearer picture. How can you be certain that the Tasmanian John Perry is the correct man?
Again, what fact about the family has been established?
Minniehaha.
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Reply #37
Death certificate for Arthur Perry definitely shows Mother Elizabeth Perry (nee Gray), Father John Perry.
So, next thing i think is to get Arthur’s marriage cert which will hopefully confirm those names, and hopefully is one of the documents already on order?
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Hi,
Arthur's birth certificate has just arrived. Does not tell much at all. Arthur born 16.11.1867 at Dunedin, Mother Elizabeth Perry nee Gray and Father John Perry, no details of ages recorded, a very brief certificate. Awaiting marriage certificate now.
Jan
Reply #37
Death certificate for Arthur Perry definitely shows Mother Elizabeth Perry (nee Gray), Father John Perry.
So, next thing i think is to get Arthur’s marriage cert which will hopefully confirm those names, and hopefully is one of the documents already on order?
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The cemetery record minniehaha found for the John died 1875 said that he had been in NZ 12 years. Which could be all right for the John in Tasmania.
There would still need to be an Elizabeth/Eliza around to go with him.
If she didn't remarry, a possibility might be the Eliza Perry who died 6 Dec 1901, age 68, and was buried at the Southern Cemetery (no others in the grave?)
https://www.dunedin.govt.nz/facilities/cemeteries/cemeteries_search?recordid=104810&type=Burial
She was the widow of a John Perry, according to newspaper announcements.
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/ESD19011206.2.25?
There were three John - Eliza Perry births in NZ in 1865, 1870, 1873 (can't guarantee where, but it would leave room for Arthur!)
The last of those three, Caroline, may have married Harry Gladstone Yates in 1893. Later divorce proceedings for that couple. She may have died 1948, age 88 77 ;D
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She may have died 1948, age 88 77 ;D
No she didn't, that one was nee Carr, the widow of David Owen Yates!
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Possible arrival of Mrs Perry & Son from Melbourne 1864?
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/ODT18640316.2.5?query=Perry&page=2&start_date=01-01-1863&end_date=31-12-1864&snippet=true&title=LCM,LCP,ME,MIC,MTBM,NOT,OAM,ODT,OSWCC,OW,TT,SOCR,WSTAR,AHCOG,BH,CL,CROMARG,DUNST,ESD&type=ARTICLE
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However, an unclaimed letter for Elizabeth Perry, July 1863
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/ODT18630702.2.22?query=Perry&page=19&start_date=01-01-1862&end_date=31-03-1864&snippet=true&title=LCM,LCP,ME,MIC,MTBM,NOT,OAM,ODT,OSWCC,OW,TT,SOCR,WSTAR,AHCOG,BH,CL,CROMARG,DUNST,ESD&type=ARTICLE
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These Dunedin Cemeteries entries appear to be the only possibilities regarding the death of John Perry:
1.1875, already shown in reply #13. However that John Perry is recorded as being a "native of Scotland".
2.1905, aged 59, therefore born about 1846. However his wife was Clara Emily who died in 1918.
3.1905, age not recorded. Last address at the Benevolent Institute Dunedin. [This death not found on NZ BDM website].
4.1908, aged 68, therefore born about 1840. Two children in same plot, one aged 3, the other 13 years. Both died in 1897.
Minniehaha.
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Dunedin Cemeteries appear to be the only possibilities regarding the death of John Perry:
2.1905, aged 59, therefore born about 1846. However his wife was Clara Emily who died in 1918.
I investigated him last night, and he was from Cornwall! He had a sister Susan (Susan Hendy Perry) who married Charles King, a brother Simon (died 1925?), etc, as in the info found and posted by Mckha.
A sister put in a newspaper enquiry about him. He let Camborne, Cornwall, in 1864, along with his father and brothers.
To clear up the Caroline Perry born 1873, to John + Eliza.
It seems possible that she is the lady who married Harry Gladstone Yates and later divorced.
1905 newspaper article on the divorce here
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/ESD19050501.2.34
Says they married in 1893 in South Dundedin
It may be interesting that it says they last lived together at Cameron Street, South Dunedin.
Cameron Street was the address of Eliza Perry on her death announcement in 1901.
Caroline remarried in 1910 to Robert Greig.
She died in 1961 age 88, up in Palmerston North.
Probate (will) here
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L9WC-PQNP?i=1089&cc=1865481
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Wow thank you all, lots of information there.
Jan
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3.1905, age not recorded. Last address at the Benevolent Institute Dunedin. [This death not found on NZ BDM website].
Cemetery record says he died 11 Jan 1905. But also that he was buried on 11 Jan.
Newspapers in following days mention a death of a Frederick Perry in the Benevolent Institution that week.
Possibility in the NZ death indexes -
Frederick Perry, age 62, died 7 Jan 1905.
Could it be the same person?
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Hi Jan
Following on from the good "digging" done earlier by jonw65, I have some further information which comes from a somewhat unlikely source, but ties up the various PERRY family members already mentioned in this thread. ;)
Hope to get around to posting it here later this morning.
~ Lu
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Good morning,
Thank you Jon for this information, great, and Lu, look forward to receiving this information soon.
Goodness me, this is absolutely wonderful.
Jan
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There were three John - Eliza Perry births in NZ in 1865, 1870, 1873 (can't guarantee where, but it would leave room for Arthur!)
Hi Jan
So following on from jon's NZ Birth index findings above [and discounting Caroline (b. 1873) for whom info has already been given here] .... can confirm that the 1865 [Alice Eliza PERRY] and 1870 [Eliza PERRY] births, are part of Arthur's family (- indeed, they are, > along with Caroline, > his sisters).
BUT, there was also another child to Eliza PERRY (snr) whose birth was registered at Dunedin in 1878 - namely Charles PERRY. His father's name is not included in the birth registration listing.
I'd found Charles PERRY when searching electoral rolls earlier and on re-checking saw he was also at Cameron Street, Caversham - along with Eliza PERRY (snr). ???
And it was only by following up on him - and after many dead ends in not being able to positively match him to Arthur's family - actually exploring further, a monetary item mentioned in his Will. Bingo !! (It did take a while though. ) ;D
Details to follow of the man who supplied the information that ties all the parts of this PERRY family together.
But a little more about Charles PERRY > >
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/ESD19030330.2.14
^ In March 1903 he married at Dunedin to Mary Clayton McKEGG. They soon moved to live in Palmerston North (and at times lived close by to his sister Caroline (YATES) GREIG). There was one child of the marriage, Mavis Amuri PERRY who married Wesley Francis BIRCH in 1927.
Mary Clayton PERRY the wife of Charles, died in 1926. He re-married just a couple of years before he died in 1952.
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/ESD19030330.2.14
^ Probate file with copy of Will for Charles PERRY ... at Image # 37 ... "Interest in Estate of W. C. BRIGHT - L 377-0-0" (377 pounds).
Next to find the mystery person "W.C. BRIGHT" . ::)
~ Lu
continues next >>
Edited only for clarity :
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Lu, thank you, will pass this information on.
Jan
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"W.C. BRIGHT" proved to be William Champneys BRIGHT - who died at Auckland in 1948.
A most generous benefactor in more ways than one ... the information given in relation to the bequests he made, really is "gold" !! ;)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSHW-4SRQ-1?i=169&wc=4B25-XF2%3A1045247701%2C1589633385&cc=1865481
The Will begins at Image # 171 ... names his wife Mabel Lilian BRIGHT ?? ... then goes on to mention his sister-in-law Caroline GREIG and her son Charles Cecil GREIG.
It's not until the next page (Image # 172), that things are made clearer.
... Charles PERRY, Main Street, Palmerston North ... brother of my late wife
;D
So while I've been able to establish that Mr BRIGHT's late wife was Alice PERRY (bc. 1865) - still haven't come across a marriage registration (in NZ at least). It appears that they did not have children. Alice BRIGHT died 12 July 1944 aged 77 years - she shares a plot with William C. BRIGHT at Auckland's Purewa Cemetery.
The other beneficiaries are -
... "my niece, Jessie PERRY of Caversham, Dunedin" - [whom I assume is Jessie Eliza Gray PERRY - d/o Arthur ??]
... "my nephew, Arthur PERRY of Christchurch ??? [seems Arthur resided mostly in Dunedin ??]
... "my niece Mavis BIRCH of Longburn [ this is Mavis Amuri PERRY marr. BIRCH - d/o Charles PERRY and Mary C. McKEGG]
... "my niece Ivy SEYMOUR of Rainton Street, Dunedin" [appears to be Ivy nee PERRY another of Arthur's daughters ] :
All other named beneficiaries, are associated with William's BRIGHT family.
So thanks to Mr BRIGHT for his assistance with this "PERRY family jigsaw". ;D
I have a good deal of other bits and pieces for the PERRY lot in general, will add them slowly in following posts.
~ Lu
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Hi Jan ... just spotted you were online when adding my last post. Sorry for the delay, had a really busy day.
Just take your time reading through all this new stuff .... and feel free to ask any questions.
Also do not purchase any new "certifcates / or printouts" just yet . ;D ;D ... will let you know which ones will be of greatest benefit (and hopefully save your cousin some $ $ $ ).
~ Lu
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Hello Lucy2. I'm just brand new to RootsChat. My cousin Jan has been assisting me with information regarding Shipping Records for John & Elizabeth Perry from UK to NZ. So, I am compiling all this information, particularly seeking information for John Perry who married Elizabeth Gray (who was born in Launceston). They probably married there, but no records can be found. Just touching base tonight and will get back to you again in the morning when I've had an opportunity to read the information you have given to Jan tonight.
- Dawn
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Now found : Marriage for Alice PERRY :
Marriages - New South Wales
Year : 1891
Reg. No. 1197
W.W.C. BRIGHT
Alice E. PERRY
[My note: William Weldon Champneys BRIGHT was born 1868 (possibly at Dunedin) and was one of a large-ish number of offspring of William Goldsmith BRIGHT and his wife Martha Maria BRIGHT He appears on NZ electoral rolls under a variety of mis-spellings of his middle names. ;D Later dropped the use of the "Weldon" name and was known as William Champneys BRIGHT. He is listed as "agent" (and on early rolls as a commercial traveller). ] ]
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Hi Dawn ... and welcome to RootsChat.
Really nice that you've come onboard for this "search". :)
Well, we've had a few twists and turns ... and maybe some "barking up the wrong trees" to begin with, but I think some of this newer information tends to suggest we're on the right track now. ;)
There are lots of contributors to this search - each with different resources and skills. Please feel free to ask if you need further explanations of anything. ;)
Look forward to seeing you back here.
~ Lu
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Hi again Lucy and others who have been assisting with my questions. My daughter has a DNA match that takes her back to the Perry Family in NZ, so working on that I have begun with Arthur Perry, born 1867 in Dunedin, and now endeavouring to go back generation by generation. Began by thinking Arthur's parents came from Cornwall, did now definitely seems incorrect, with latest information suggesting Arthur's mother, Elizabeth Gray was born in Tasmania. Sorry for all the mix up. I will try to digest all the information so far received on this site and continue this conversation hopefully tomorrow. (Still waiting on marriage certificate for Arthur Perry and Mary Reid Evans.
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Hi
Dawn, welcome to Rootschat.
So pleased that the tremendous research by Lucy (well done!) has pulled all this together for you. It has been a really fascinating thread, both to follow, and to be involved in.
Still hoping that a bit more on John and Eliza will emerge to help. They have been hard work for sure, but keeping fingers crossed for you!
John
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Hi Jon,
Yes, I am glad too that Dawn has come on board, you people do such wonderful work with your research, and really appreciate that. What Lucy has found is absolutely fantastic.
We just need to find out more now on John & Eliza Perry, may be a difficult task.
Thank you all for your assistance.
Jan
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Hi Jonw. Thank you for the welcome ... :) My additional questions of course will refer to names of Arthur Perry’s descendants, especially granddaughters, great granddaughters etc. probably born around 1947 ??? Such a big journey. Also looking for possible connection with Tasmania.
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Although Charles was obviously not John's son his birth was post the 1875 regulations, so it should give the place of birth of Eliza nee GRAY (shouldn't it?)
How much information would be on the 1875 John PERRY's death cert. Possibly not very much? Pre the 1875 new regulations.
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Looks like I have a long journey ahead trying to work all this out. Thank you for your message. Dawn ???
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Although Charles was obviously not John's son his birth was post the 1875 regulations, so it should give the place of birth of Eliza nee GRAY (shouldn't it?)
How much information would be on the 1875 John PERRY's death cert. Possibly not very much? Pre the 1875 new regulations.
See the following (NZ BDM Timeline) > ... 1875
https://www.bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/timeline
Note : When purchasing a NZ Birth / Death or Marriage record, we always recommend you obtain the "printout" version, which is a copy of the registry entry and contains the maximum amount of information available.
~ Lu
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Although Charles was obviously not John's son his birth was post the 1875 regulations, so it should give the place of birth of Eliza nee GRAY (shouldn't it?)
Mentioned earlier in this thread > Eliza PERRY d. 6 December 1901 -- Eliza was a native of London, England.
Source of that information is > (1) Her death listing at the Dunedin Cemeteries website ... and (2) The Burial register for the Southern Cemetery (at ancestry.com).
How much information would be on the 1875 John PERRY's death cert. Possibly not very much? Pre the 1875 new regulations.
John PERRY - d. 26 September 1875 - aged 58 years - Native of Scotland - Occupation: Engineer - Lived in Otago 12 years. (info given earlier in this thread) .
Additionally -- the Burial Register for the Northern Cemetery, Dunedin, states his cause of death as "consumption".
~ Lu
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Lucy, I have been a little confused by John's age on death. I now realise that is because there is a discrepancy between that cemetery register, says age 58 years, whilst the death registration and newspaper announcement have him as 66.
There's a piece of court testimony by a John Perry, engineer, in January 1873, apprx 10 or 11 paras down, in this article in The Otago Daily Times
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/ODT18730111.2.25.2
John
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Wow now that makes this very confusing ! The age, huge discrepancy !
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Lucy, I have been a little confused by John's age on death. I now realise that is because there is a discrepancy between that cemetery register, says age 58 years, whilst the death registration and newspaper announcement have him as 66.
There's a piece of court testimony by a John Perry, engineer, in January 1873, apprx 10 or 11 paras down, in this article in The Otago Daily Times
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/ODT18730111.2.25.2
John
Which says 27 years ago he was in Glasgow. Ie 1846.
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Lucy, I have been a little confused by John's age on death. I now realise that is because there is a discrepancy between that cemetery register, says age 58 years, whilst the death registration and newspaper announcement have him as 66.
Hi John ... ^ ^ (will deal with this one firstly) ;D
Yes, the Northern Cemetery Burial register (record available at ancestry.com) and the listings at the Dunedin City Council Cemeteries website, as well as the (separate) Northern Cemetery website,
www.northerncemetery.org.nz
all have -- "age 58 years" ... AND :o ... date of death as -- "26 September 1875" !!!
Of course the date of the newspaper [the "Otago Daily Times"] which published his death and funeral details ... was ... 25 September 1875 ... announcing he died on 24 September. ;)
And it can be deduced from the NZ BDM (online) Death index listing, that the 24 September 1875 was the date of death.
Sure is confusing. But the Dunedin CC website does have a "note" re: typo / spelling errors.
[I'm not too bothered at this stage about "the "age discrepancy" ] ;)
~ Lu
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There's a piece of court testimony by a John Perry, engineer, in January 1873, apprx 10 or 11 paras down, in this article in The Otago Daily Times
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/ODT18730111.2.25.2
John
WOW !! Excellent find, John. Well done. :)
Sounds promising ... gives us something more to work with ... huh ?
~ Lu
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Wow now that makes this very confusing ! The age, huge discrepancy !
Hi Jan ... see my Reply # 79 for further explanation.
~ Lu
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Looks like John Perry still Glasgow in 1832, now to find when he left Scotland for Tasmania after this.
Great work.
Jan
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Hi Lu, Jan, jon, mckha and all who have endeavoured to assist me with information regarding John Perry. I have now received the marriage certificate of his son Arthur Perry and I am sharing that with you. BRIDE: Mary Evans Age 18 South Dunedin, her Mother was Jessie Evans Reid and father Williams Evans .. GROOM: Arthur Perry, Age 21, Dunedin, Expressman, Bachelor, his Mother named as Eliza Waddell Formerly Perry Gray. His father simply named as John Perry. Marriage took place on 11 July 1889 at Knox Church, Dunedin. So, our Elizabeth Gray, now referred to as Eliza, appears to have remarried very soon after John's Death. Can't find the Waddell records to date.
Question re age of John Perry. His Death Record on Ancestry shows Death 26 Sept 1875, age 58, Died of Consumption, Engineer, Resident of Dunedin, Born Scotland, 12 years in N.Z. I have calculated he was born in 1817.
I will continue to pursue this puzzle. Thank you to all who helped. ... Dawn
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The actual death notice for the 1875 John. (I don't think we already have this?) Doesn't really add anything though.
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/ODT18750925.2.9?query=perry&start_date=20-09-1875&end_date=15-10-1875&snippet=true&title=NOT,ODT,OW,ESD
Minniehaha.
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I have now received the marriage certificate of his son Arthur Perry and I am sharing that with you.
GROOM: Arthur Perry, Age 21, Dunedin, Expressman, Bachelor, his Mother named as Eliza Waddell Formerly Perry Gray. His father simply named as John Perry. Marriage took place on 11 July 1889 at Knox Church, Dunedin.
Hello Dawn
You've said ... "His father simply named as John PERRY".
* Does that mean that the certificate does not show the occupation of John PERRY ??
~ Lu
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Hi Lu, Yes that's correct. No occupation or other information re John Perry. I will continue to pursue John Perry, but so far, I've not found 1841 or 1851 Census in Scotland for John, therefore another brick wall.