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General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: NormanE on Wednesday 20 February 19 05:29 GMT (UK)
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The 1905 marriage certificate of Frederick Clarke at St Stephens, Paddington says he is 32 and a Sergeant,68th Battery Royal Artillery.
I would be grateful for help in finding out more about Frederick, his military history and his roots.
NormanE
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Wife Alice Buckell, father James; fought in the Sudan 1898 and in South Africa; Army number 77838. Died in 1940. His army papers have survived and are viewable on FindMyPast:
https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=GBM/WO97/4533/110/001&parentid=GBM/WO97/4533/373835
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1901 ?
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X98S-P9H
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He was in India in 1901 so that's not him in the census.
He said he was born in London.
Addresses associated with father James are all in Bristol: 25 College Street; Cotswold Road; 116 Dove Street.
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25 College Street, Bristol in 1891:
James Clarke 50 waiter born Buntingford, Herts
Eliza wife 47 born London
Florence daughter 16 cigar maker born Bristol
Ethel Daughter 10 born Bristol
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Cotswold Road Bristol in 1901:
James Clarke widower, 60, waiter, born Buntingford Herts
Florence daughter 26 cigar maker born Bristol
Ethel 20 daughter born Bristol
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Baptisms on 29 November 1874 at St. George, Brandon Hill, Bristol, children of James & Eliza:
Walter James born 7 Feb 1870
Frederick born 13 August 1872
Florence born 19 Sep 1874
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1881 census - 16 Sydenham Road, Bedminster, Somerset:
William J Clarke - 40 - waiter - Hertfordshire
Eliza - wife - 37 - London
Alice - 15 - pupil teacher- London
Amy - 13 - London
Walter -11- London
Frederick - 8 - London
Florence - 6 - Bristol
Ernest - 4 - Bristol
Ethel - 3 months - Bristol
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Eliza's maiden name appears to be Carter.
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William James Clarke (a waiter) and Eliza Carter were married at St John's Lambeth on 6 March 1864
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Frederick's birth may well have been the Q 3 1872 registration in Wandsworth district which includes Battersea (added to his birth place on his attestation). He appears in the 1891 census in the 1st Division Field Artillery in Aldershot and in 1911 in Bulford (second child born there 1911 ) in 139 Battery, as his record of service, place of birth consistently Surrey as per his attestation.
Seems the parents managed to get Amy baptised in London 8 Mar 1868 born 10 Feb 1868 leaving the others until Bristol except Alice baptism not found.
MaxD
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Thank you all for your interest and information.
I realise that I should have fuller in the details offered for your help.
First the marriage certificate for Frederick and Alice
Frederick's father was listed as James a Carpenter
Alice's father was listed as Thomas a Plumber
I believe he was in fact an Umbrella Maker and like all his children came from the Lymington RD (A witness to the wedding was Bessie Ellen Buckell elder sister of Alice.)
The children of the marriage were
Alec 1907, Geoffrey 1909, Joan 1911 and Donald who only lived a short time born 1919.
Dathai has found the best candidate for Frederick yet, born in Bradford.
So I'm looking for Frederick's father, a Carpenter called James who might have come from Bradford. So far without success.
NormanE
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No Norman, I have found you the right family. There is no doubt about it. Father James was a waiter. His addresses are listed in Frederick's army papers. So is the marriage to Alice, and the births of Alec, Geoffrey and Joan.
Frederick was in India in 1901 and so could not be in the 1901 census in Bradford.
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Agree totally with Shaun J - in addition, his birth place as Surrey is consistent with his attestation paper and the two census returns he appears in. Father James was living in Bristol when Frederick attested in 1878 at 26 Colley (spelling?) Street, also consistent with the birth of the last 3 children in Bristol. Address later amended on the attetstaion papers to Cotswold Road Bristol where James was in 1901.
MaxD
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26 Colley (spelling?) Street
25 College Street. James is there in the 1891 census
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Likely birth registration:
Clarke, Frederick - Wandsworth, September quarter 1872 Volume 1d page 587
MMN Carter
The baptism, as previously posted, was in Bristol in 1874. The date of birth (13 August 1872) ties in with his 1939 register listing in Exeter.
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WOW Gentlemen
Feel a little overwhelmed with what you have presented me with.
How can I get a copy of Frederick's military records? Re Frederick's attestation you mentioned MaxD, did you mean 1878?
Frederick died at Exeter in December 1940
It does seem that the occupations of Frederick's and Alice's parents were incorrect on the marriage certificate.
I need time now to digest all this wonderful news. I will be back, but my thanks and admiration for what you have acheived
NormanE
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Shaun J posted a link to his papers on Findmypast right at the start of the thread. You may be able to get a pay as you go or a trial sub or a local library may have access. I had assumed you had looked at the papers!
MaxD
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1911 census at Bulford camp:
Frederick: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X72R-NDD
Alice https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X72R-NC1
Alec (mistranscribed as Alice) : https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X72R-NZM
"Jeffrey" (mistranscribed as Jeffery): https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X72R-N68
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THANK YOU
Thanks to your helping me I'm there and know all.
Now linked to Find My Past as you pointed out.
Now shuffling paper for a gift of results. Not as interesting as searching.
Thanks again to you all.
NormanE
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Good Morning Gentlemen
I'm back again with a HELP request
I have just discovered that Frederick Clarke c 1873 who left the Royal Artillery in 1913 as a Sergeant had another period with the regiment.
The 1939 register lists Frederick as Capt. Royal Artillery (retired) and also Military Clerk ( Retired).
Advice on a route I might follow to find more would be appreciated.
NormanE
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Deleted in view of subsequent postings
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I think this WW1 medal card may be him - a Brigade Sergeant Major (78981), received a temporary commission in 1916, ended the war as acting Captain.
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D1820886
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There's a very informative medal card on Ancestry. Address 1 Eaton Place, Heavitree Road, Exeter
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/1262/30850_A000329-01642/2130160?backurl=&ssrc=&backlabel=Return
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ShaunJ has found him I'm sure - well done!
I quibble with the National Archives translation of BSM as Brigade Sergeant Major - there is/was no such thing. He was a Battery Sergeant Major (as he finished his pre-war service).
MaxD
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Mentioned in Despatches - June 1915
https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/29200/supplement/5985
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A Russian medal in August 1915 - the Cross of the Order of St George, 4th Class (bottom of page, column 2)
https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/29275/supplement/8506
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The MiD was almost certainly related to the Battle of Neuve Chapelle in March 1915. The list of awards to 33 Brigade officers and men on which he appears in the war diary contains some names picked out in the brigade account of the 10-14 March action, he was BSM of 33 Battery in the brigade.
The Russian award is less easy to pin down. Those awarded are from a great variety of units in different divisions. Such awards were often (always?) allocated by the British authorities on behalf of the allied country and were often (always?) used where it had proved not possible to give a British award, thus increasing the number who were able to be recognised for their efforts.
Having been commissioned, his records should be at the National Archives. A search for his name however only returns Captain Frederick James Clarke of the Royal Field Artillery. The record isn't digitised so would have to be seen, but we haven't seen the middle name James used before??
His commissioning date was 4 May 1916, the war diary has no record of him leaving the brigade. (War diary WO 95/1694)
The dates on his medal card suggest he finished his time at No2 RFA Officer Cadet School at Topsham Barracks Exeter either as an instructor or on the admin staff.
MaxD
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I think this may be him in the MoD FoI listings of records still held for soldiers born before 1901 (it's in Sheet 1).
The P prefix denotes an officer (I think). The birthdate is slightly out but that could be a typo.
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Grrrh - checked that listing but with the 13 Aug date of birth so came up blank and yes, P number = personal number. The significance Norman E is that you can, subject to the conditions, apply for his record. ShaunJ is making good use of what may be a rainy day where he lives!
MaxD