RootsChat.Com
Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Topic started by: Richard Knott on Thursday 21 February 19 16:20 GMT (UK)
-
When Robert Inglis was interviewed by the mining commission just before he died in 1841 he said:
'I am the oldest collier on Sir John Hope's work... I was born 9th Sept. 1759 and worked at Pinkie Pit long before the colliers got their freedom; the first emancipation took place on the 3rd of July, 1775'
He seems likely to be the Robert Ingles, born on 9 Sep 1759, to James and Ann Ingles of Mortoun Colehouses, and baptised a few days later at the Presbyterian Church in Spittal just outside Berwick, as the dates and occupation match perfectly; and Robert's first son was called James.
My understanding as that, pre-1775, any children born in a mining community were tied to that particular mine and there were penalties for trying to leave, so how did Robert end up moving from Berwick to Liberton where he married and then worked for Sir John Hope? Were there links between the two places?
Or is this just a big co-incidence?
Richard
-
Have you tried the Scottish mining website as they have owners and timescales when pits opened etc. I have done a bit of research in my husbands tree and sometimes if one pit not doing well miners went to another that was owned or bought by same owner.
-
My understanding as that, pre-1775, any children born in a mining community were tied to that particular mine and there were penalties for trying to leave, so how did Robert end up moving from Berwick to Liberton where he married and then worked for Sir John Hope? Were there links between the two places?
Or is this just a big co-incidence?
Richard
The situation with miners was in a technically grey area - they were neither Serfs nor slaves but the legallities of their situation basically made them so - any miner leaving without his masters consent could be charged with theft (of his own person) unless they stayed free for a year and a day.
(from various Acts of Parliament from 1606 to 1670)
The situation with the children of "bound" mine workers was slightly different as the Mine Owners often tried to make this bond hereditary by presenting a "gift" or "bounty" (referred to as "Arles" ) to the miners family at the child's Baptism.
The possibility exists that either no gift was presented or accepted by the family or they did a runner. Not all runaways were pursued unless it suited the Mine owner. Often other landowners poached experienced miners from one area to come to theirs and hid them from the law for the required period
-
Just thinking that maybe rules different in England where Berwick is.
-
Just thinking that maybe rules different in England where Berwick is.
Sorry - the above were applicable only in Scotland the Acts of Parliament were from the Scots Parliament before the Union.
(in my defence - the query was posted in the Scotland board ;D - that said I should have read the whole thing)
As far as my understanding goes English Miners were much freer although bound to certain owners. (Emancipation of miners in Scotland didn't really start until 1799 and even then some owners on the East Coast were reputed to have maintained the Bounty and bonded families until the 1820's)
The Industrial Revolution in Scotland meant that the demand for coal soared and the working conditions underwent rapid changes when the Mine Owners brought in English and Welsh miners who would not accept the Scottish conditions of employment.
-
Salters in Scotland ditto!
Skoosh.
-
Salters in Scotland ditto!
Skoosh.
Both Miners and Salters were included in the legislation in 1601 and marked as "essential" to the National Economy. The 1641 act extended the scope of the legislation to cover anybody that worked in mining and the Salt industry and not just the miners & Salters.
I don't know about the salt industry but even the Poor Law of the time allowed "able bodied beggars" to be sentenced to "employment" in the mines
-
Saw the title of this thread and a long forgotten song popped into my head. Are these cola mines next to the lemonade springs in the big rock candy mountains?
Jane ;)
-
Apologies for the typo in the title!..and thanks for your thoughts.
I knew that Berwick was English but wondered whether, with its close links to Scotland, it might have had some unusual practices re mining, although I can find very little on Berwick mining in the 18th century. I did know something about Scottish mining (and have written about it here:
https://www.64regencyancestors.com/scottish-miners-1) but wasn't sure how it would have worked in these circumstances.
I think I just found it difficult to understand why someone would voluntarily move from a place where there was some degree of freedom to a place where the strict rules of near slavery still persisted. Certainly Robert's statement in 1841 suggested that his father and grandfather had been 'slaves' to the Laird of Preston Grange, which would make it odder still that his father moved to Berwick for a while. Perhaps he ran away and was taken back.
I have seen the Scottish Mining site, which has lots about other relatives, but I could see anything relevant to Robert Inglis.
Richard
-
It does seem too much of a coincidence given the date of birth and Morton Coal Houses being in a mining district. Robert Inglis said that his father and grandfather worked for Prestongrange, so it's likely that James Inglis had run away and settled in the Durham coalfield in England (the first coalmining area he would have encountered going south) thinking it was far enough to be safe.
The Lairds of Prestongrange were very cruel to the workers even by the standards of the day, probably the worst in Mid or east Lothian from reading the evidence given to the Franks Commission. This makes me think that they would have trouble attracting colliers temporarily released from other coalworks making it essential that they did everything possible to find and bring back any of their own runaway colliers to maintain the number of colliers.
There is no direct connection between Prestongrange, Liberton and Sir John Hope. Even before 1775, when a coalwork closed or there was no work for them, by law the colliers were free to go elsewhere under certain conditions (in practice it was a real grey area but i won't go into that and it's been partly covered in some previous answers) so as coalworks closed, opened, expanded or contracted, colliers moved from place to place. I think New Craighall didn't open until 1831.
Alb
-
The Rothes papers in Kirkcaldy Art Gallery & Museum include a list of medicines supplied free to the Earl of Rothes's miners at Cluny in Fife. Fringe benefits of working for Rothes included free housing and medicine. In 1740 the Earl agreed with his colliers that he would provide work for the aged, infirm and destitute. When you consider how life in the 18th century could be "nasty, brutish and short", there might have been worse places to work in than the Fife mines. Indeed, the miners had little or no freedom to decide their destiny, and it is recorded that Rothes would lend some of his miners to other mineowners if asked. But at least the work would be paid.
Fishermen weren't much better off than miners and salters in those days. There is a famous case from 1705 when the 4th Earl of Northesk in Angus complained to the Privy Council that some of his fishers, by the name of Cargill, had been tempted by the town council of the neighbouring town of Arbroath to move to that town, leaving him in the lurch. He maintained that the fishermen were "serfs or thralls", like the miners and salters, and were bound to their master, and the Privy Council agreed, so the Cargills had to return whence they had come. I think they even did time in the noble lord's dungeons to bring them to their senses. Not until about 1830 were Auchmithie fisherfolk allowed to move to Arbroath, where they set up their distinctive fisher quarter at the "Fit o' the Toon".
Harry