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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Denbighshire => Topic started by: Dingaling on Friday 22 February 19 01:57 GMT (UK)

Title: No birth record
Post by: Dingaling on Friday 22 February 19 01:57 GMT (UK)
I am searching the family of Robert William Evans bc 1875 North Wales died 1913 Senghenyyd Mine Disaster Wales. His brother Joseph Arthur Evans bc 1880 and wife Elizabeth Annie Evans adopted the son born to Robert Evans and wife Emma in 1913 after the death of his father in 1913..
The son was Robert William Evans b 21st October 1913.
My research has found a 1881 census but does not list Robert W Evans bc 1875.
The details of the 1881 census is.
Robert Evans b 1846 Ruabon Denbighshire living Queen Street District Wrexham
Mary Evans b 1847 Selatyn Shropshire
David Evans b 1869 Ruabon Denbighshire
Elizabeth A Evans b 1871 Ruabon Denbighshire
Watkin Evans b 1874 Ruabon Denbighshire
Joseph A Evans b 1879 Ruabon
I have found a marriage entry in 1868 of Robert Evans b 1846 and Mary Riley and have a birth cert of a Joseph Arthur Evans b 1879 at Queen Street Ruabon. Mothers name is Mary Riley.

I am puzzled as to why no further census records and NO birth of a Robert William Evans bc 1875,
Are there census and birth records missing from the collections.
Hoping someone may be able to help.
Title: Re: No birth record
Post by: whiteout7 on Friday 22 February 19 08:41 GMT (UK)
From the GRO

EVANS, JOSEPH  ARTHUR     RELEY  <----- most probably Riley like you say
GRO Reference: 1879  M Quarter in WREXHAM  Volume 11B  Page 294

EVANS, WATKIN       ROYLEY  <---- most probably Riley like you say
GRO Reference: 1873  D Quarter in WREXHAM  Volume 11B  Page 283

EVANS, DAVID       REILEY 
GRO Reference: 1869  M Quarter in WREXHAM  Volume 11B  Page 353

Curious! I can't spot him either .... Perhaps they were not brothers? Maybe Cousins?

Title: Re: No birth record
Post by: Dingaling on Friday 22 February 19 09:28 GMT (UK)
Thank you Whiteout7 for your reply.
How hard it is to make a judgement and say that they do belong to my Evans family but I do believe so.
The birth of Robert William Evans bc 1875 North Wales to Robert Evans is a puzzle...my thoughts are he may have been fostered or adopted or maybe under another christian name or his birth year wrong.
Joseph Arthur Evans was born Feb 1879 to Mary Reley (Riley) of 4 Queen Street Cepe Mawr Ruabon. His father is Robert Evans a farmer/Coal Miner. Joseph a travelling draper married Elizabeth Annie Jones in 1910 Salford Lancashire. Joseph A Evans died 1919 and his widow Elizabeth Annie Evans remarried 1925 to John Edward Evans, The 1939 Registry has them living at Rhosellinchug North Wales. there were No children to the marriage.    I have written certificates of the above. 
There were several Evans families living at Ruabon Wrexham so more research has to be done.                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
Title: Re: No birth record
Post by: Gadget on Friday 22 February 19 09:35 GMT (UK)
Hi

Another member* was asking about this person a while ago - maybe in the last 18 months. I recall doing quite a bit of research for her but I can't find the thread at the moment.

I'll see if I can find it and get back to you.


Gadget

* I see it was Dingaling  :)
Title: Re: No birth record
Post by: Gadget on Friday 22 February 19 09:40 GMT (UK)
Here is a previous thread on the subject. There maybe more.

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=755850.0



Title: Re: No birth record
Post by: Gadget on Friday 22 February 19 09:47 GMT (UK)
I think the info is recorded here:

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=767899.msg6202057#msg6202057

and around.


Gadget
Title: Re: No birth record
Post by: Gadget on Friday 22 February 19 09:48 GMT (UK)
and here's a link to other threads:

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=767899.msg6201980#msg6201980


Gadget
Title: Re: No birth record
Post by: Dingaling on Friday 22 February 19 10:16 GMT (UK)
Yes Gadget you have helped me many times before with my posts.
I have ascertained that Joseph Arthur Evans bc 1879 and his wife Elizabeth Annie Evans nee Jones adopted Robert William Evans b 1913 Senghenyyd (Written Paper) in 1913.
After the death of Joseph Arthur Evans in 1919
Elizabeth Annie Evans remarried John Edward Evans in 1925 ( John E Evans being the son of John Evans and Catherine Jones) they resided Rhosellinchrugog Wales.
It is quoted from family that Joseph Arthur Evans bc 1879 was the brother of Robert William Evans bc 1875.
But unfortunately no birth entry of Robert William Evans can be found and I cannot locate a 1891 census or 1901 census for the family.
This maze is slowly unwinding and hope to find the rightful Evans family.
Many thanks for all your help.
Title: Re: No birth record
Post by: tazzie on Friday 22 February 19 10:31 GMT (UK)
Hi.....

1901 is this them....RG 13/5218 F124 P 17....

Roberts year of birth given as 1884 however. Youngest children could answer the puzzle.
Caradoc Evans born 1891 Denbighshire. 2 births possible both Wrexham 1892 mmn Jones
                                                                                                          1893 mmn Parry.
Did father Robert remarry...? Both wives Mary.....? Is Robert a step brother......?

Ok maybe more questions than answers.

Tazzie
Title: Re: No birth record
Post by: whiteout7 on Friday 22 February 19 10:57 GMT (UK)
"The witnesses on the marriage of Robert William Evans to Emma Hughes on 11th September 1907 are George Williams and Richard J Ford. The marriage was solemnized at the Registry Office at Pontypridd. Robert was living at Llanbradach and Emma at Abertridwr."

https://www.GenesReunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1342636

Doesn't seem much help either



Title: Re: No birth record
Post by: Gadget on Friday 22 February 19 11:20 GMT (UK)
To avoid repetition of searching~

From previous threads:

The John E Evans b. 1887 is described as son to John and Catherine Evans of Minera in the  censuses.

See earlier posting #1 :

1901 1 Berwig Cottages Minerea Wrexham
John Evans   28
Catherine Evans  26
John Edw Evans   4
Elizabeth Jane Evans 10/12

Reg district  Wrexham Piece 4616
Folio 85
Page4
Denbigbshire

NOTE the above census info is from 1891 census - see following post

This would suggest that Roy Evans, b. 1913 was the grandson of John and Catherine Evans.
Title: Re: No birth record
Post by: tazzie on Friday 22 February 19 12:31 GMT (UK)
Ok......

As I have just trawled through the previous threads what Gadget has added seems to be what you need.  January 23 2017 you stated you had contact with "Roy" aka Roberts family and he was taken in by his uncle John Edward Evans....so where does Joseph Arthur Evans fit in?

Tazzie
Title: Re: No birth record
Post by: whiteout7 on Friday 22 February 19 12:46 GMT (UK)
Ok......

As I have just trawled through the previous threads what Gadget has added seems to be what you need.  January 23 2017 you stated you had contact with "Roy" aka Roberts family and he was taken in by his uncle John Edward Evans....so where does Joseph Arthur Evans fit in?

Tazzie

Posted by: Dingaling
on: Today at 10:16 Insert Quote
I have ascertained that Joseph Arthur Evans bc 1879 and his wife Elizabeth Annie Evans nee Jones adopted Robert William Evans b 1913 Senghenyyd (Written Paper) in 1913.
After the death of Joseph Arthur Evans in 1919
Elizabeth Annie Evans remarried John Edward Evans in 1925 ( John E Evans being the son of John Evans and Catherine Jones) they resided Rhosellinchrugog Wales.




Title: Re: No birth record
Post by: tazzie on Friday 22 February 19 13:11 GMT (UK)
Hi.....got it.......reading too quickly again.


The 1901 for the family have younger children as Edith b @1887. Llewellyn b @1889 and Caradoc b @

1891. Going with Caradoc mmn Jones I can also find births for the others as Jones in Wrexham registration district.

Tazzie
Title: Re: No birth record
Post by: Gadget on Friday 22 February 19 14:49 GMT (UK)
Good luck you two  :)

I think I got punch drunk from looking last time  ;D
Title: Re: No birth record
Post by: Dingaling on Friday 22 February 19 23:02 GMT (UK)
Yes you do get punch drunk.
One reason I gave the research amiss for 12 months.
I am just concentrating on the known facts and seeing where they lead me.
Waiting on certificates of marriage for John Edward Evans and Elizabeth Annie Evans.
The 1939 Registry gave me the leads that I required for research into the present day Evans family.
Title: Re: No birth record
Post by: Dingaling on Friday 22 February 19 23:16 GMT (UK)
Thank you Tazzie for your posts.
 I will follow through on your posts.
From family... Joseph Arthur Evans b 1879/80 was the brother of Robert William Evans bc1875 and adopted the child born after he died in the Senghenyyd mine disaster on 14.10.1913.
 Robert William Evans b 21.10.1913.
I have a copy of the signed paper by his mother Emma Evans.

On the death cert of Joseph Arthur Evans it gives his sister Jane Evans as an informant.
Joseph Arthur Evans died Feb 1919 Worsley age 38 years he was a General Traveller (Draper). His sister gave the address of Old Gate Bwlchgwyn Near Wrexham. The death was registered in the sub District of Llanelly Carmarthen.
Title: Re: No birth record
Post by: Dundee on Saturday 23 February 19 03:09 GMT (UK)
Joseph Arthur Evans was born Feb 1879 to Mary Reley (Riley) of 4 Queen Street Cepe Mawr Ruabon. His father is Robert Evans a farmer/Coal Miner. Joseph a travelling draper married Elizabeth Annie Jones in 1910 Salford Lancashire. Joseph A Evans died 1919 and his widow Elizabeth Annie Evans remarried 1925 to John Edward Evans
                                                   

Surely this is Joseph Arthur in 1911 with his family in Ruabon?

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X7VZ-F5V

Same family in 1901:

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X9BX-P7M

1891:

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:455B-66Z

'Rachel' is an enumerator's mistake and should be Robert.

I really doubt that Joseph would have gone from being a coal miner to a draper.

Debra  :)

Title: Re: No birth record
Post by: Dingaling on Saturday 23 February 19 06:27 GMT (UK)
Thank you Dundee for the census. I am scratching my head.

The 1911 census gives my Robert W Evans bc 1875 North Wales married and living with his wife Emma and children Elsie, Katie and James at Senghenyyd and is a Coal Miner.
Joseph Arthur Evans b 1879 was married in 1910 was a cloth salesman and may have been with his wife Elizabeth Annie bc 1886. Elizabeth Annie Jones was living at Swinton at time of marriage.
Joseph Arthur Evans died in 1919 from Asthma. There was no inquiry.

I have a 1901 census for Joseph A Evans b Carwen (Corwen) Denbighshire who was a boarder  living with John Pollitt at Eccles Lancashire England and was a Drapers Assistant.
Looking at the 1911, 1901 and 1891 census it ticks all my boxes.
Is it possible that the parents Robert and Mary Evans listed all the children in each census.
Another question is why.
It does look like there may have been more then one marriage.
Title: Re: No birth record
Post by: tazzie on Saturday 23 February 19 08:03 GMT (UK)
Hi.....


The family I was looking at as Dundee agrees with can not be yours as both Robert & Joseph are both at home in 1911 with mum......dad living in another house by himself. Also no Jane.
Do you have Robert's marriage cert as well as Joseph's ......are details for father the same?

Tazzie
Title: Re: No birth record
Post by: Dingaling on Saturday 23 February 19 10:32 GMT (UK)
Yes I have both marriage certificates.
Robert William Evans looks like 25 years married Emma Hughes September 1907. He was a bachelor, Coal Miner and living at James Street Llanbradach. His father is noted as Robert Evans a Farmer. (NOT deceased). The marriage was at Register Office District of Pontypridd County of Glamorgan. Witnesses are George Williams and Richard J Ford.
A child Katie Margaret Evans was born 1905 Llanbradach.
Interesting that R W Evans name was entered as William Robert Evans.
The 1911 census for Fobert William Evans says that he could speak English and Welsh.

 Joseph Arthur Evans age 28 married Eliza Annie Jones in September 1910 at Welsh Calvinistic Methosidst Chapel Broad Street Pendleton. Joseph was a Bachelor and a Cloth Salesman. His father is noted as Robert Evans a Coal Miner (NOT deceased). The witnesses were E Roberts and Mary J Jones.
Title: Re: No birth record
Post by: Dundee on Saturday 23 February 19 11:30 GMT (UK)
From one of your previous posts:


Joseph Arthur Evans
died 28th February 1919 Worsley Queen Victoria Road U...
 age 38 years
General Traveller
Present at death Jane Evans (sister) Old Gate Bwlchgwyn Near Wrexham


Jane EVANS living with her parents Robert and Margaret in 1911 at Bwlchgwyn, Jane is born Corwen:

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X7V8-VNQ

This looks like the same family in 1891 also with a Joseph A. born c1882.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:4TKG-W2M

1881 with a Robert born c1875:

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q2WS-DXV9

I think Margaret's maiden surname was THOMAS.

Debra  :)
Title: Re: No birth record
Post by: Dingaling on Saturday 23 February 19 11:57 GMT (UK)
Many thanks Debra for all your posts especially the lastest ones which give a clear indication that it more then likely is the family of Robert William Evans b 1875. A lot of the details are correct. (Jane her place of abode, the place of death of Joseph A Evans was his home town. The 1881 census for Robert Evans which gives his year of birth as 1875 and the fathers name as Robert Evans)
I cant thank you Tazzie and Gadget for all your help. It seems that the research took one step forward then two step backwards before a result was found.
With the help of Rootschat and records I have been able to find the present day family of Robert William Evans b 1913 and the family of Robert William Evans b 1875 who died in the Senghenyyd Mine Disaster of 1913.
Title: Re: No birth record
Post by: Gadget on Saturday 23 February 19 12:15 GMT (UK)
Those census links that Debra has linked to are familiar from long ago!  Was there not a thread about Jane Evans then.  I see that I linked you to the Corwen Workhouse on one of the threads and I do recall finding a baptism/birth cert  for a son of Jane's but the threads are all spread out over the years  so  I can't locate them all.

Think it might be circles, Kay, and this has already been found  :)

Gadget
Title: Re: No birth record
Post by: Gadget on Saturday 23 February 19 13:37 GMT (UK)
Re my previous post - here it is:

I've found a possible baptism for John Evans

8 Feb 1864, Corwen
John Evans,  BB( base born), Mother Jane Evans, Workhouse




Gadget
Title: Re: No birth record
Post by: Dingaling on Sunday 24 February 19 01:14 GMT (UK)
Gadget, From my notes
John Evans b 1862 Corwen Workhouse married Catherine Jones b 1865 in 1886,
Family of John and Catherine Evans
 John Edward Evans b 1887
Elizabeth J Evans b 1891
Gwladys Evans b 1894.
Idris Evans b 1900.
The John Edward Evans b 1887 (above waiting on marriage cert) is the John Edward Evans who married the widow of Elizabeth Annie Evans nee Jones in 1925.


Title: Re: No birth record
Post by: Dingaling on Sunday 24 February 19 04:07 GMT (UK)
The following details are from a birth certificate I have for
Joseph Arthur Evans  b third February 1879
at 4 Queen Street Cefn Mawr Ruabon,
Father Robert Evans Coal Miner
Mother Mary Riley.
Feel this may be not be the birth I am looking for.
Joseph Arthur Evans age in 1910 is 28 years (Marriage cert) making a birth year 1882.
His age on 8th February 1919 is 38 years making a birth year of 1881.
Joseph Arthur Evans died at Worsley Queen Victoria Road USD?
His sister Jane Evans was living at Old Gate. Bwlchgwyn Near Wrexham.
Maybe there is another birth for a Joseph Arthur Evans.

Title: Re: No birth record
Post by: Dingaling on Tuesday 05 March 19 07:49 GMT (UK)
Received a birth entry of a Joseph Evans b 4th Feb 1882 born Hetty Hangar or is it Letty Hangar.
The birth was registered in the District of Corwen in the counties of Merioneth and Denbigh.
Mother name Margaret formerly Thomas
Fathers name Robert Evans a General Laborer.

I have Googled the name Hetty Hangar to find where it is situated but without success.
Can somebody help.
Title: Re: No birth record
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 05 March 19 08:58 GMT (UK)
Given that the family where in Llangar in 1891  - 4635/116/11 - I think it would be somewhere in that parish, with  Llangar being misread as as Hangar.

Add - possibly Lletty, Llangar.

Gadget

Title: Re: No birth record
Post by: Dingaling on Tuesday 05 March 19 09:45 GMT (UK)
Thank you Gadget for your post and the 1891 census.

All makes sense now.
Title: Re: No birth record
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 05 March 19 09:47 GMT (UK)
Lletty is marked here:

https://historicplacenames.rcahmw.gov.uk/placenames/recordedname/78ea877c-6a1f-4114-aca9-a99c2168437a



Gadget
Title: Re: No birth record
Post by: Dingaling on Tuesday 05 March 19 23:17 GMT (UK)
Thank you Gadget.
Following through with information now. Cheers
Title: Re: No birth record
Post by: Dingaling on Wednesday 06 March 19 06:07 GMT (UK)
With more research I have located a family which I feel more then likely is the family of Robert Evans b 1875.
The details are
Robert Evans b 1855 Llanuwchileyn married (1873 Corwen) Margaret Thomas b 1853 Corwen Denbigh.
Their children are
Elizabeth A Evans b 1873 Cynwyd Merionethshire
Robert Evans b 1875 Cynwyd Merionethshire
Jane Evans b 1879 Cynwyd Merionethshire
Joseph Arthur Evans b 1882 Letty Hangar Merionethshire
Catherine b 1884 Merionethshire
Humphrey b 1886 Merionethshire
Mary Ellen Evans b 1888 Corwen
Ada Evans b 1894 Brymbo

The similarities of christian names are a match. Now to further research the above family for a definite link.
Cheers and thank you to all that has helped me.
Title: Re: No birth record
Post by: Gadget on Wednesday 06 March 19 08:57 GMT (UK)

Joseph Arthur Evans b 1882 Letty Hangar Merionethshire


Lletty, Llangar

Glad you're getting somewhere.


Gadget
Title: Re: No birth record
Post by: Dingaling on Thursday 14 March 19 10:43 GMT (UK)
Located two births of Robert Evans b 1875 son of Robert Evans and Margaret Evans at Corwen.
1. ONDecember 1875 Corwen
2. AMJune Corwen 1875.
Birth certs will determine if one belongs.
Marriage certificate of the widow of Joseph Arthur Evans.
Elizabeth Annie Evans married April 1925 John Edward Evans 38 years a bachelor of Maesyffyman Minera son of John Evans and Catherine Evans. (thank you Gadget for research earlier) these are also located in the 1939 Register.
John Edward Evans died 1948.
Title: Re: No birth record
Post by: Gadget on Thursday 14 March 19 11:24 GMT (UK)
The 1875 births both have Mother's Maiden Name as Roberts. Source: GRO index.

Gadget

Add - not sure if we've raised this previously
Title: Re: No birth record
Post by: Dundee on Thursday 14 March 19 12:21 GMT (UK)
EVANS, ROBERT
Mother's maiden surname:  THOMAS     
GRO Reference: 1876  M Quarter in CORWEN  Volume 11B  Page 401

Debra  :)
Title: Re: No birth record
Post by: Gadget on Thursday 14 March 19 14:21 GMT (UK)
That one seems to correspond to mn of Margaret, Debra.
Title: Re: No birth record
Post by: Dingaling on Wednesday 20 March 19 23:41 GMT (UK)
Have received a birth Cert Robert Evans b 6th December 1875 father Robert Evans a farm laborer mother Margaret Evans nee Thomas. Born at Penymyndd Cymwyd Gwyddelwern Meredith Denbigh.
From research I believe that the above parents of Robert Evans are
Robert Evans b 1855 Llanuwchileyn Meredith and Margaret Thomas b1853 Corwen Denbigh.
Children Elizabeth A b 1873 Cynwyd, Robert b 1875 Cynwyd, Jane b 1878 Cynwyd (alive 1919), Joseph Arthur b 1882 Hetty Llangar, Catherine b 1884 Merionethshire, Humphrey b 1886 Merionethhsire, Mary Ellen b 1888 Corwen, Ada ? b 1894 Brymbo.
Robert Evans senior b 1855 was alive in 1919.
From my research I have found that the Evans families run parallel to each other.
 Parents of Robert Evans b 1855 I believe are
John Evans b 1826 Corwen and Jane Jones? b 1827 Corwen.
Children Mary Evans b 1854 Corwen, Robert Evans b 1855 Corwen, Elizabeth Evans b 1859 Corwen Margaret b 1861 Corwen, Jane b 1864 Corwen.
More research to be done.
Title: Re: No birth record
Post by: Dingaling on Saturday 30 March 19 23:01 GMT (UK)
I have several photos that I believe are the Evans family.
Can the photos be downloaded and posted on Rootschat.
Title: Re: No birth record
Post by: Gadget on Saturday 30 March 19 23:47 GMT (UK)
Yes.  They have to be under 500kb and a unique file name to Rootschat - eg. add your user name and date to the file name.


Gadget
Title: Re: No birth record
Post by: Dingaling on Tuesday 02 April 19 04:54 BST (UK)
(http://)
Title: Re: No birth record
Post by: Dingaling on Tuesday 02 April 19 06:47 BST (UK)
(http://)
sorry for all the blank posts. Trying to send photos.
Title: Re: No birth record
Post by: BushInn1746 on Tuesday 02 April 19 11:41 BST (UK)
I am searching the family of Robert William Evans bc 1875 North Wales died 1913 Senghenyyd Mine Disaster Wales.

I am puzzled as to why no further census records and NO birth of a Robert William Evans bc 1875,
Are there census and birth records missing from the collections.
Hoping someone may be able to help.

Hello

This mine was also known as the Universal Colliery.
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C10718583
Universal Colliery, Glamorgan. Photograph depicting: "A mother waits for news" - Senghenydd disaster. 1913

The 1913 disaster was the second at the Universal Colliery Company
At the time of the 1891 census, Senghenydd did not exist as a village ...
Click on the map and you will get a small size map
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/pathways/census/pandp/places/seng.htm

There is a printed HMSO Report into this terrible disaster in 1913 (only part of the Report)
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2a/Senghenydd-Explosion-Report-opt.pdf

The National Archives (under HO for Home Office or COAL for Coal mining) and/or Regional Archives (Glamorgan Archives, also The National Library of Wales), and/or the Coal Authority Archives, Berry Hill, Mansfield, Nottinghamshire (Coal Archives at Mansfield some years ago).
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_ep=Universal&_cr=HO%7CCOAL&_dss=range&_sd=1913&_ed=1920&_ro=any&_st=adv

The photographs are listed, but no file.

If anyone is visiting TNA, at Kew, they will need a Passport or Photo Driving Licence and also must prove their address they live at, for a Readers Ticket. See TNA "Visit Us" page first before going.

The Commissioner's Inquiry was at Cardiff, Wales, and headed by H.M. Chief Inspector of Mines (Commissioner) R. A. S. Redmayne, C. B., and Evan Williams, Chairman of the South Wales and Monmouthshire Coalowners' Association.

There was also an Inquest.

1911

As the Mine was also called the Universal Mine, some of the Miners lived at Universal Huts or Universal Villas, Senghenydd, Nr Cardiff. These Universal Huts and Villas are listed and searchable (on f m p) not under Senghenydd, but under Eglwysilan, Pontypridd.

Mark
Title: Re: No birth record
Post by: BushInn1746 on Tuesday 02 April 19 22:38 BST (UK)
Hello

Despite over 100 years passing since the disaster the full HMSO Command Paper in the above link is being withheld from the general Public and the above link to the Report online does not include the Appendices.
 

The first few of the Names, Addresses, Ages and Occupations are clearly visible online, including an Underground Plan, but as the Plan contains casualty location information and a Colour Key as to how they died I won't attach it.


Durham Mining Museum who it seems has a Full Report, says this ...
http://www.dmm.org.uk/uknames/u1913-01.htm
Evans, Robert William, aged 38, address: 26 Stanley Street, Senghenydd (unchecked)

Mining Institute
https://mininginstitute.org.uk/links/links_history/
Link goes to other links including the archived website of CMHRC ...


CMHRC - Coal Mining Historical Resource Centre (provided by Rayleys Solicitors) Now an Archived website for researchers.
https://web.archive.org/web/20160304121259/http://www.cmhrc.co.uk/site/home/index.html


Robert W. Evans who left a wife and four children
https://web.archive.org/web/20160316134124/http://cmhrc.co.uk/cms/document/1911_13.pdf


1911 Census
24 Stanley Street, Senghenydd, William Jones, Head, 56, born Mastegg.
26 Stanley Street, Senghenydd, CENSUS Schedule (Missing in sequence on f m p and Ancestry)
28 Stanley Street, Senghenydd, Gomer Morgan, Head, 43, born Glam. Swansea.

24 Stanley Street, Senghenydd, William Ben Jones, Head, 33, Married, Miner Hewer, born Glamorgan, Mountain Ash, Both Langauges. William Benjeman Jones, No. 24 Stanley Street, Senghenydd, Near Carephilly [sic].


There was also some addresses called Stanley Street Cellars, Senghenydd (other times just a number followed by, Cellars, Senghenydd), but adjacent addresses say Stanley Street.

26 Cellars, Senghenydd, Hannah Morgan, Head, 42, Widow, House Keeper, Employer, Born Glamorgan, Merthyr.

Oh dear - not very helpful. I can't find either end of the street yet (it is in sequence, then all over the place in places) to locate any general description, which might deal with missed or empty addresses. I notice some 1911 Census Schedules are saying how many Rooms each Head has, suggesting some parts of houses were sub-let?

 ----------

Added: You could email a nice email to our Parliamentary Archives and mention your kin and date of death and ask what information for family history purposes they could confirm from the full report Cd. 7346 and any associated documents. I have always found them most helpful, for Acts of Parliament etc. I always put my address and if the section required was one photocopy sheet, they occasionally posted it with a compliments slip.

Report on the Circumstances attending an Explosion which occurred at the Senghenydd Colliery, Glamorganshire on 14th October 1913 [1914 Cd.7346]

See here for their email address ...
https://archives.parliament.uk/

Mark
Title: Re: No birth record
Post by: Dingaling on Wednesday 03 April 19 00:03 BST (UK)
Thank you for the information on the Universal Mine and for the links which will enable me to further research. Pleased that more research can be made on the Universal Mine.
The list of miners deceased 1913 has Robert William Evans (No 242) age 38 at 26 Stanley Street Senghenydd.
I have managed to copy a map of the mine indicating where the men were situated in the shafts when the explosion occurred.
The 1911 census record for Robert William Evans age 36 years is
Robert William Evans age 36 Miner Hewer born North Wales
Emma Evans wife 35 years born Ystrad Glamorganshire
Kate Evans Daughter age 5
James Arthur Evans age 2
Address 21 St Annes Street Gilfach. This is where there daughter Ada Elvira Evans was born in May 1911.
Many thanks to all that have guided and helped me with my research so far.
Title: Re: No birth record
Post by: BushInn1746 on Wednesday 03 April 19 09:05 BST (UK)
Hello

The Volunteer Rescuers showed bravery of the highest order and extreme courage, going down the Pit, knowing a fire had started below ground and trying to make a route beyond the fire. Advisors who formed a Consultation Committee about fighting the fire from the other side, also descended into the Mine.

Those Rescuers who were reported in the newspaper of 16th October 1913 to have died in the early stages by the Rescue Brigade were:-

William John of Abertridwr, Volunteer Rescue from the Windsor Pit, clearing a roof fall and claimed to be a relative of Dai St John, Grenadier Guards.

Thomas Smiles, Rescuer, taken to the Cardiff Infirmary suffering effects of gas, where he died during the night.

William Jones of Thomas Street, Abertridwr, Rescuer, Fire fighting, mine roof collapse and struck by a pit prop.

 ----------

The South Wales Miners' Federation Executive (under Mr W. Brace, M.P.), met regarding support of Dependents Widows & Children (now the National Union of Mineworkers / NUM - South Wales Area).

Some Welsh Newspaper images (Court Case) ...
https://newspapers.library.wales/view/4030555/4030563

Warwick University Modern Records Centre, are fairly big collectors of Trade Union records, but don't seem to list NUM
https://warwick.ac.uk/services/library/mrc/explorefurther/digital/membership/

Mark
Title: Re: No birth record
Post by: Gadget on Wednesday 03 April 19 09:12 BST (UK)
Hello Mark
You've provided Dingaling with quite a few important links. However, it might be worth you reading through this and  previous threads (links given earlier) that cover a good deal of information on Robert William Evans's ancestors, rather than repeat what has already been found.

Gadget
Title: Re: No birth record
Post by: Gadget on Wednesday 03 April 19 09:14 BST (UK)
To help, I gave these links to previous threads earlier on this thread:

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=767899.msg6201980#msg6201980


Gadget
Title: Re: No birth record
Post by: Gadget on Wednesday 03 April 19 10:15 BST (UK)
Im glad that you've edited your previous post and deleted the last para:

Quote
Do you have your relative's Full Death Certificate? Next of Kin might be confirmed there. Although there was an Inquest and usually the Coroner is the Informant reporting the Death, but it possibly might (or might not) confirm Husband of ... .

The Death looks to be reported in the Deaths Index of January, February & March Quarter (called the March Quarter) of the following year? District Pontypridd, aged 38.

Access to Image of the Index page only, for Registrars District, Page & Volume Number:-
https://www.freebmd.org.uk/search

Also can be checked here, but you don't see an image of the Index.
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/

Mark

Title: Re: No birth record
Post by: Dingaling on Wednesday 03 April 19 10:31 BST (UK)
Many thanks Mark for all the material you have posted.
I have obtained the death certificate of Robert William Evans died 14th October 1913. The cert was issued by the coroner.
Robert is buried in the Penyrheol Cemetery. I have photos of his grave.
I am slowly tracing Robert W Evans family and waiting on certificates to further my research.
The material on the Universal Mine Disaster is so interesting. Although I had research this area before all your notes and links are new material to me which I will follow through on.
Cheers for now.
Kay P
Title: Re: No birth record
Post by: BushInn1746 on Wednesday 03 April 19 12:51 BST (UK)
Many thanks Mark for all the material you have posted.
I have obtained the death certificate of Robert William Evans died 14th October 1913. The cert was issued by the coroner.
Robert is buried in the Penyrheol Cemetery. I have photos of his grave.
I am slowly tracing Robert W Evans family and waiting on certificates to further my research.
The material on the Universal Mine Disaster is so interesting. Although I had research this area before all your notes and links are new material to me which I will follow through on.
Cheers for now.
Kay P

Hello Kay

I apologise for repeating comments already suggested and suggesting a couple of Robert Evans, who were not your man.

I hoped that there might be some new useful snippets for you, amongst it.

All the best, Mark
Title: Re: No birth record
Post by: Dingaling on Thursday 04 April 19 04:12 BST (UK)
Hi Mark.
Appreciated all the material that you sent.
The Universal Mine Disaster information has opened more doors for me to research.
I have only read published books on the mine so to contact the departments and see what material they hold is a real bonus.
When I began my research into the Evans family I knew and had nothing except the names Robert William Evans his wife Emma and children and no knowledge of Wales especially North Wales so I have came a long way with help and guidance.
Many thanks Dingaling
Title: Re: No birth record
Post by: Dingaling on Friday 12 April 19 02:40 BST (UK)
Hoping to be one step closer or is it.
I have the Marriage Certificate of Robert Evans and Margaret Thomas both 21 years who married in June 1873 at Registrar Office Corwen. Robert Evans occupation was Husbandman residing Penarth Corwen his father Joseph Evans was deceased a Husbandman.
Margaret Thomas a Spinster residing Cerryllwydin Cynwyd. No occupation.  Fathers name Humphrey Thomas a Husbandman. Witnesses Edward Williams and Ellin Lewis.
So that makes Robert Evans birth year 1852. Maybe his age is an error.
I have a birth cert showing Robert Evans b Dec 1875 at Penymnydd Cymwyd. Mother Margaret Thomas husband a farm laborer. unfortunately no fathers christian name.
The census records that I have researched shows
Robert Evans bc 1855 Llanuwchilleyn Wales. Wife Margaret bc 1853 Corwen.
Children Elizabeth A  1874 Cynwyd, Robert 1875 Cynwyd, Jane 1877 Cynwyd, Margaret b 1879 Cynwyd, Joseph A 1882 Llangar, Catherine b 1884 Llangar, Humphrey T b 1886 Llangar, Mary Ellen b 1888 Llangar and Ada b 1894 Brymbo.
There are so many boxes I can tick with the marriage certificate and census information but is the marriage certificate the correct one.
Title: Re: No birth record
Post by: Dingaling on Friday 12 April 19 07:29 BST (UK)
I should have mentioned that I began my reseach looking for a Joseph Arthur Evans b 1882 died 1919 a brother of Robert W Evans b 1875 North Wales killed in the Universal Mine.
A sister Jane Evans was noted on Joseph Evans death certificate.
Joseph A Evans adopted/fostered the infant son of Robert W Evans in 1914.
The 1881 census gives Joseph A Evans b 1882 with his parents Robert and Margaret Evans.
A birth certificate for Robert Evans b 1875 gives mother as Margaret Thomas.
Details of the marriage cert of Robert Evans and Margaret Thomas is listed below.
Title: Re: No birth record
Post by: Gadget on Friday 12 April 19 08:26 BST (UK)
Just to add (in case of duplication of effort by others)  that the info mentioned by Dingaling in the previous posts  have been covered in other threads that were linked to earlier in this thread.