RootsChat.Com
Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: vida04 on Thursday 28 February 19 13:08 GMT (UK)
-
Hi all
I'm trying to locate my grandfather's (Alfred John Ransley) birth certificate. He was born at sea in January 1880 on a ship bound for South Africa from the UK (unfortunately I don't have the name of the ship :( ). I'm at a loss as to where to start looking. Can anyone suggest where is best to start?
Thanks in advance
Vida
-
Welcome to Rootschat.
I'm afraid he isn't coming up on the All UK, Registers of Births, Marriages and Deaths at Sea, 1844-1890.
-
The Ships List states only one ship to South Africa in 1880
http://www.theshipslist.com/ships/passengerlists/index.htm
Have you got his death record from SA in 1937?
What documents do you have?
Saves people doing things twice.
Dave
-
Below is a link to Alfred's death certificate on Family Search:-
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9Q97-Y3Q9-2PT?i=1125&cc=1779109
Images 1126 and 1127
-
Database -
South African Passenger Lists
http://www.eggsa.org/cgi-bin/dosearchArrivals.pl
Ship's Passenger Lists Hamburg to Africa incl South Africa (they sometimes went via Southhampton)
http://www.safrika.org/schiff_en.html
-
got to this page and order by date.
Scroll to 1880 - Happy hunting
http://www.eggsa.org/arrivals/voyages.html
-
Welcome from me too :)
What documents do you have?
When you've come back to us with this info vida04 we can help a bit more; for instance, do you have his marriage record? And do you have another source for his birth date other than the death certificate [on which the age is only as accurate as the informant's knowledge]? Do you have a baptism and know the nationality of his parents?
-
Thank you for all the replies. Much appreciated.
My grandfather Alfred John Ransley was born on a ship in January 1880 on route from UK to South Africa. He then settled with my Great Grandfather in South Africa His Father was John Ransley
To answer the questions posed:
What documents do you have ........... Only my grandfather's death certificate and a photograph of his gravestone
Do you have his marriage record ......................... No.. My grandfather married in South Africa
Do you have a baptism and know the nationality of his parents? ........ Nationality of his father was British born in Kent, this was recorded on his death certificate
The only source of date of birth was from the death certificate
I would appreciate any help
TIA
-
I think then that we have to consider the date of birth as 'flexible'.
I found 3 John Ransley Kent births 1840 - 1865 that could be possibles for Alfred's father.
Births Mar 1855
Ransley John Sheppey 2a 577 [see below]
Births Jun 1856
RANSLEY John Charles Cranbrook 2a 450 [see below]
Births Dec 1863
RANSLEY John Oliver Cranbrook 2a 536
maybe worth following these up on censuses to see if they disappear before 1880 [when Alfred's parents would have been at sea]
and 2 marriages 1860 - 1880 sadly no middle names
Marriages Mar 1870
Bartholomew Mercy Ticehurst 2b 97
Harmer Zebulon Ticehurst 2b 97
Hayward Harriet Ticehurst 2b 97
RANSLEY John Ticehurst 2b 97
Marriages Dec 1872
Ransley John Maidstone 2a 923
TOMSETT Maria Maidstone 2a 923
Do any of these women's names ring a bell with Alfred's known siblings children?
ADDED: John Ransley born Sheppey appears in 1881 RG11; Piece: 124; Folio: 26; Page: 8 so unlikely to be at sea ca 1880
John Mansfield 30
Emma Mansfield 34
John Ransley 26 b Sheppey boarder, police constable
John B.J. Robinson 21
John C Ransley appears in 1891 in Bromley RG12; Piece: 630; Folio: 14; Page: 21 so unlikely to be at sea in 1880
John C Ransley 35 b Hawkshurst Kent, gardener
Sarah Ransley 32 b do
Elizabeth M Ransley 6
Helen S Ransley 3
Marriages Jun 1882
Martin John Cranbrook 2a 1128
RANSLEY John Charles Cranbrook 2a
REED Sarah Cranbrook 2a 1128
THORN Hannah Cranbrook 2a 1128
This may be John Oliver's death
Deaths Mar 1931
Ransley John O 67 Camberwell 1d 1122
He is probably with grandparents on 1871 RG10; Piece: 1046; Folio: 8; Page: 9
James Watkins 64
Harriett Watkins 58
John Ransley 7 b Cranbrook grandson
& in South Norwood in 1891 RG12; Piece: 594; Folio: 135; Page: 6
John Ransley 27 poulterer's asst [fish] b Flimwell
Agnes Ransley 28
Bertie Ransley 7
Harry Ransley 4
Nellie Grace Ransley 2 6/12
Margart Knight 65
Ernest Ledger 16
Fredk Finch 25
THis was all to see if there was a John Ransley with an occupation likely to take him to sea....
-
Have you looked for a death certificate for John Ransley?
Does John Ransley have an occupation on Alfred's certificate?
Do you have his marriage record ......................... No.. My grandfather married in South Africa
Do you have a baptism and know the nationality of his parents? ........ Nationality of his father was British born in Kent, this was recorded on his death certificate
Does this mean a marriage certificate for Alfred is not available at all? I do not know the extent of SA records.
-
Thank you for your quick response.
I have not looked for Alfred John Ransley marriage certificate . Do you suggest I search for it? They were married in SA
As far as my Great Grand Father John Ransley I do have the death certificate which states that he was born 1844 in Kent
Regards
-
OH that helps with John Ransley - older than I thought!!
Yes do get the marriage certificate if you can - John's occupation will be helpful to find any voyage he was on & it may even be that Alfred's mother is named, helping to find them on ship's lists.
-
OK there's a John Ransley aged 8 in Lewisham, Kent in 1851 HO107; Piece: 1591; Folio: 292; Page: 17
John Ransley 62 umbrella maker
Mary Ann Ransley 32
Mary Ann Ransley 9
John Ransley 8
Emily Ransley 5
Amelia Ransley 4
Thomas Ransley 6 Mo
But I struggle to find him in later censuses; this may be his death though
Deaths Mar 1880
Ransley John 37 Maidstone 2a 460
-
There's a John Ransley 22 sailor b Cherriton Kent in 1861 but a bit old
John Ransley RG 9; Piece: 4439; Folio: 260; Page: 3
Age: 22 [ ca 1839]
Relation: Ord 2d Class (Ordinary Seaman)
Male
Where born: Cherriton, Kent, England
Vessles, Port Royal Jamaica
County/Island: Royal Navy
Vessel: Cadmus
Piece: 4439
Folio: 260
Page Number: 3
BUT he was a seaman....
-
It would appear from the grave that John Ransley mother was Ellen Ransley (nee Burt) ?? who came over with him on the ship in 1880. Alfred John was born on the ship in January 1880 . A Grace Ransley signed the death certificate as spouse of John Ransley in South Africa, however I am not sure if they were married in the UK before departing to South Africa or if they were married in SA
-
Was Alfred John their first son?
-
Thanks, just to say it would have been helpful to know that when we asked what you did know, even though it wasn't about Alfred. I still feel the birthdate needs to be taken as plus or minus until confirmed.
-
Thank you for your response.
According to the death certificate he was the only child.
Josey, Sorry I only remembered about that additional information now !
-
No worries. Do you have an approximate date of birth for Ellen, John's mother?
It would be worth looking for a marriage certificate for John to Grace, to see if he was a widower if he married her in SA.
Is it Alfred's exact date of birth & mother you hope to find from his birth certificate [if one exists]? Not all those consular returns are complete sadly so a SA baptism is the most likely source, unless he was baptised on the ship.
-
Good day Josey
The date of birth of Ellen Ransley I traced from a tomb stone stating ..... Birth date 1 August 1828 died 20 July 1898
She was buried with John Ransley so I assume its his mother or sister who came on the ship with him.
I am looking for the marriage certificates and will let you know
thank you for your assistance
-
Hi,
I think Ellen RANSLEY who died on 20 July 1898 could be a second wife to John, her death cert. says she was married no children,
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9Q97-Y3QQ-NMX?i=614&cc=1779109
Her Death Notice gives her parents as ?? Van STREET and Doza Van STREET and a surviving spouse John RANSLEY.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSQ8-XLC1?i=201&cc=2517051
Note that she was Nellie on both records.
I'm sorry, I can't find it, when did John RANSLEY die?
Regards,
Daisy
-
Quote from Vida at Reply#10
As far as my Great Grand Father John Ransley I do have the death certificate which states that he was born 1844 in Kent
-
thank you Josey for your assistance. I am wanting to apply for an ancestral visa. Both my children are on a spousal ancestry visa in the UK and I want to be with them
From the tombstone, John died 1st September 1909. Maybe if we can get his death certificate we can get more,
Just a question: If Alfred John was born on the ship in 1880 where can we get records?
-
If he was born at sea but it was not registered, then there ARE no birth records.....
-
As I said in my earlier post he isn't coming up in the All UK, Registers of Births, Marriages and Deaths at Sea, 1844-1890. If the ship belonged to another country there is the possibility he was registered there.
I think your only hope is to try and find what ship he was on, as the the ship's log, if it has survived, stated births and deaths on the voyage.
-
good day Josey
Can you give me some advise how to trace which ship John Ransley come over from UK to South Africa?
I really would appreciate any help
regards
-
good day Josey
Can you give me some advise how to trace which ship John Ransley come over from UK to South Africa?
I really would appreciate any help
regards
I've looked on Ancestry, Find My Past and The Genealogist and I'm afraid I can't see any records of Ransleys going to S Africa then.
Nothing here either http://www.eggsa.org/cgi-bin/dosearchArrivals.pl
-
I'm afraid I have no experience in this field. Groom & others havw looked extensively & also given you links. You may just be out of luck.
-
I'm afraid I have no experience in this field. Groom & others havw looked extensively & also given you links. You may just be out of luck.
I think you'd be better off looking from the S African end for arrivals. Have you tried Facebook, there are several S.A. Genealogy groups on there and someone may know where to look, if any records survive.
-
Hi,
If the death of Ellen RANSLEY I found was John's wife then I wonder if this is a later marriage of his, in 1901 to a Grace KLOPPER?
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C919-37V5?i=1203
I know it says that he is 50 but he could be fibbing as Grace is much younger.
Sorry it doesn't help with Alfred but it might explain the Grace on John's death certificate.
Regards,
Daisy