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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: Freya Ellingsen on Saturday 02 March 19 02:43 GMT (UK)
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Looking for further info on John, George Howard according to his headstone he was born 24 Sept 1861 and died in 1939. He died in Brighton Victoria and no parents were named on the death cert, so I obtain his marriage which gives me the following info: John George Howard was aged 24 his new wife Elizabeth Annie Davies was 19 yrs old, he was a labourer and she a servant they were married at St John's Kerang, her father is named as George Davies (Bricklayer) mother Mary Ann Rowe, where his father was named as John George Howard (Lawyer) mother Maria Rankin.
The witness were Simon Long and Hettie Gorman the wedding took place on 16 April 1884.
I'm trying to find out where they came from and about their family background.
Any further help or suggestions would be great.
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Marriage certificate should show place of birth for both parties.
Were either parents married in Victoria?
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There is an on-line family tree for this man. As we all know on-line trees are not to be relied on but are sometimes correct and at least give a starting point.
The Australian birth index has this entry, which has some similarities to your man but the birthdate and mother's name are not exactly as you have given
1859, #4742
John George HOWARD
Birth Place: Myers Flat,
Parents: Jno Howard, Martha Cohune
There is a death which may be his mother and which gives her a second forename of Maria - perhaps this is how she was known??
Victoria 1862 #7312
Martha Maria HOWARD, 46 (Birth Year abt 1816)
Father's Name: Cohoone Robert
Mother's Name: Martha U
Can you transcribe the gravestone information plaese?
Judith
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Article on the inquest into the death of Martha Maria, wife of John George Howard.
1862 'CORONER'S INQUEST.', Bendigo Advertiser (Vic. : 1855 - 1918), 12 September, p. 2. , viewed 02 Mar 2019, http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article87902385
Inquest file can be viewed here, says that John George Howard is a lawyer, his deceased wife was 40yo, a native of Glasgow, she had been about ten years in Victoria, they had 3 boys and 3 girls.
http://access.prov.vic.gov.au/public/component/daPublicBaseContainer?component=daViewItem&entityId=0129625388
M
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Marriage
HOWARD John George Born Sandhurst
DAVIS Elizabeth Annie Born Ballarat
1884 Reg#1855
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These are the only births I can find with a father John and mother Martha Maria.
HOWARD Robert
Father John Mother Martha COHENE
At Sandhurst 1855 Reg#8741
HOWARD Esther
Father John George Mother Martha COHONE
at Eaglehawk 1857 Reg#12288
HOWARD John George
Father John Mother Martha COHUNE
At Myers Flat 1859 Reg#4742
HOWARD Maria
Father John Mother Martha Maria COHOONE
At Myers Flat 1861 Reg#4793
HOWARD Martha Maria
Father John George Mother Martha M COHOONE
At ?Sail 1862 Reg#16543
Death
HOWARD Martha Maria
Father Cohoone Robert Mother Martha Unknown
1862 40 years Born Glasgow Reg#7312
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HOWARD, John George
Born: 1818-1821 circa
Married:1852 Launceston VDL
Spouse: Cohane, Martha Maria
Spouse born: 1822 circa
Source Eaglehawk & district pioneer register.
Author/compiler: O'Donohue, Annette and Hanson, Bev.
p./no. 522
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Thanks all gives me more to go on... here is the grave plaque not much on it, ITS NEW...
MEMORY OF
ELIZABETH HOWARD
2.7.1862 - 2.7. 1935
GEORGE JOHN HOWARD
24.10.1861-24.8.1939 original is available online
Although he is buried as George birth and marriage give his name as John George Howard.
Forgot to add John GEORGE was born at Sandhurst NSW.
I don't see his mothers name as COHONE it appears on marriage cert as Rankin....
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HOWARD, John George
Born: 1818-1821 circa
Married:1852 Launceston VDL
Spouse: Cohane, Martha Maria
Spouse born: 1822 circa
Source Eaglehawk & district pioneer register.
Author/compiler: O'Donohue, Annette and Hanson, Bev.
p./no. 522
I see now this is most likely his father
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Where is Sandhurst NSW....I can't find one but that's probably me.
Considering Martha Maria died in 1862 it's possibly your George made an error with his mother's details.
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Yes I would think so. I presume that should be Sandhurst Vic.....
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I agree, to the best of my knowledge, no Sandhurst as a town for NSW. I wonder if the reference to NSW indicates Sandhurst but earlier than 1851 ... Victoria, hived off from NSW to form two separate British colonies...
JM
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Seems to me that it's Sandhurst, Victoria.
I'm intrigued by the specific death date given on the memorial plaque but, if it's new, it may well be that whoever organised it was mistaken, especially as the name is not in the order given at marriage and birth. However his death index entry does give his age as 78 which would mean a birthdate of about 1861.
Victoria, 1939, #8329
John George HOWARD, 78
Death place: Brighton
As already shown by Cando, according to the Birth and Death Index, there were two younger sisters born in 1861/62 at about the time the mother was ill with consumption, both these babies died in 1862
Maria b 1861, d 1862
Martha Maria b and d 1862 (aged 1 month)
All of his siblings found by Cando were registered around Bendigo which was known as Sandhurst at the time, so I think it's Sandhurst/Bendigo in Victoria.
I wonder if his father married again or who looked after the children who were only 7,4 and 3 when the mother died.
Judith
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Yes a lot to find out especially as he was a Lawyer wondering where he trained and where he was born? Thanks for that summary.
Yes I'm trying to find an obit but no luck for either so far a second marriage is possible.
I also wonder about the last baby Maria had before she died, if it also died?
the inquest states six children only 5 found so far..
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Yes, in my Reply #12 above there are two children younger than your John George -
Name: Maria Howard
Birth Date: Abt 1861
Birth Place: Meyers Flt, Victoria
Registration Year: 1861
Registration Place: Victoria, Australia
Father: John Howard
Mother: Martha Maria Cohoone
Registration Number: 4793
This child's death is on the Death index
Registered 1862 #5164, age 1.
Name: Martha Maria Howard
Birth Date: Abt 1862
Birth Place: Sail, Victoria
Registration Year: 1862
Registration Place: Victoria, Australia
Father: John George Howard
Mother: Martha M Cohoone
Registration Number: 16543
Death for this baby
1861 1862 # 9455, aged 1 month (Edited to correct date)
The registration numbers for the deaths would seem to indicate that these deaths were not particularly close in time. The mother's death registration is #7312 and we know that she died in September (possibly the mother's registration may have been delayed because of the holding of an inquest?) According to the inquest the baby Martha Maria was born only a day or so before the death of her mother.
Judith
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Thanks Judith.
Tomorrow I'll go to the library as I have been told there is a family tree on a well known site.
I will compare what I have gathered to what they have.
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Name: Martha Maria Howard
Birth Date: Abt 1862
Birth Place: Sail, Victoria
Registration Year: 1862
Registration Place: Victoria, Australia
Father: John George Howard
Mother: Martha M Cohoone
Registration Number: 16543
Death for this baby
1861, # 9455, aged 1 month
Judith
A couple more details for this child's death
Father John George
Mother not listed
Year 1862
Aged 6 weeks
At NERR
Sue
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Oops - sorry I put the wrong date for baby's death in my earlier reply. Now edited it.
I am still wondering what happened to the father after the death of the mother, and who looked after these small children. I cannot see anything for the father after 1862. I cannot see the marriage (as mentioned by Cando from the Eaglehawk pioneer registry) in Tasmania on Tasmania's LINC site (may have missed it). If they were married in Tas perhaps the 'missing' sixth child was born there - but again I couldn't find a likely record.
Perhaps trying to contact the Eaglehawk research may help.
Judith
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Thanks Judith, I also spent sometime trying to locate that marriage but same no result in Tassie..
I will look at shipping tonight and see if I can see their arrival in Victoria.
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HOWARD, John George
Born: 1818-1821 circa
Married:1852 Launceston VDL
Spouse: Cohane, Martha Maria
Spouse born: 1822 circa
Source Eaglehawk & district pioneer register.
Author/compiler: O'Donohue, Annette and Hanson, Bev.
p./no. 522
I followed up this ref held by the State Library Vic. and this is what I discovered: John George Howard Lawyer b. C1818/21 Clarkenwell, London Eng, 5.3.1856 Juror IQ-158 Welcome INN E/HGly, [NFR].
Spouse; 14.7.1852 Launceston VLD, MARTHA, MARIA COHANE VARIATIONS-COHONE/COHENE/COHOONE, born c1822 Rutherglen, Lanarkshire/Dunlon, Glasgow, Scotland , daughter of ROBERT COHOONE (COAL MINER) & MARTHA UK d.9.9.1862 Sailors Gully aged 40yrs (Natural causes IQ)-B/A 12.9.1862 bd Bullock Creek.
ISSUE; UK,
ErrorSPAM
REPORT THIS POST AS SPAM (Use 'Report to Moderator'). DO NOT CLICK ON ANY LINKS IN THIS POST. DO NOT REPLY TO THIS PERSON.
] Matilda b.1853[/color] Tas, Robert b.22.5.1855 K/Flat, 20.7.1871 joined VIOR Cobden Tent, ESTHER B.27.1.1857 M/Flat, John George b.14.9.1858 M/FLAT
Maria b.1960 M/Flat d.28.6.1862 S/Gully 18 months bd Bullock Crk, Martha, Maria b.1862 S/Gully d.17.10.1862 S/Gully aged 6yrs bd Bullock Crk.
Note: informant son Robert Howard Miner K/Flat
Ref:
Eaglehawk & district pioneer register.
Author/compiler: O'Donohue, Annette and Hanson, Bev.
Vol.2 p. No 522.
Would love to know some of the abbreviations above some are more obvious then others.
Thanks
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A good find.
There will be others who'll have some better information but I thought this might start the ball rolling.
John George Howard Lawyer b. C1818/21 Clarkenwell, London Eng,
5.3.1856 Juror IQ-158 Welcome INN E/HGly, [NFR]. - sorry i don't know what this means
Spouse; 14.7.1852 Launceston VLD, I assume this is the marriage date but I am not seeing any records in Tasmanian BMD (hope someone else can)
MARTHA, MARIA COHANE VARIATIONS-COHONE/COHENE/COHOONE, born c1822 Rutherglen, Lanarkshire/Dunlon, Glasgow, Scotland ,
daughter of ROBERT COHOONE (COAL MINER) & MARTHA UK
died .9.9.1862 Sailors Gully aged 40yrs (Natural causes IQ)-B/A
Burial 12.9.1862 bd Bullock Creek.
ISSUE; UK,
Matilda b.1853 Tas, again I see no record of this birth but this looks like the
'missing' child
Robert b.22.5.1855 K/Flat, 20.7.1871 joined VIOR Cobden Tent, - unsure of what VIOR Cobden Tent is
ESTHER b.27.1.1857 M/Flat,
John George b.14.9.1858 M/FLAT
Maria b.1960 M/Flat d.28.6.1862 S/Gully 18 months
buried bd Bullock Crk,
Martha, Maria b.1862 S/Gully d.17.10.1862 S/Gully aged 6yrs bd Bullock Crk. (This little one was only 1 month when she died)
Note: informant son Robert Howard Miner K/Flat
Keeping in mind that the informant, Robert, was only 7 when his mother and the two little ones died it's possible that the information is not entirely reliable. And once again, no information about the father.
Would love to hear what others can find as this is an intriguing search.
Judith
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Welcome INN e/HGly.
I think this refers to his legal training. Ie which Inn he was articled to or something like that.
Can’t find it though. So far. (ftp://I think this refers to his legal training. Ie which Inn he was articled to or something like that.
Can’t find it though. So far.) :)
Changed my mind. Welcome Inn is a place near Penrith. Eg https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/230054426?searchTerm=“Welcome%20inn”&searchLimits=l-state=New+South+Wales
I think you should add Colquhoun to the possible variations of Martha’s surname.
Cobden Tent is something like a Masonic Lodge. But has women, and a junior branch
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/219774537?searchTerm=%22Cobden%20tent%22&searchLimits=
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The marriage certificate, 1884.....is it a transcription....or......image of a handwritten document?
What occupation does it give for John George HOWARD?.
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I've tried Colquhoun already on the Tas family history site with no luck either. Good idea re the INN idea. J
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Just a thought, but
ISSUE; UK, Matilda b.1853 Tas, Robert b.22.5.1855 K/Flat, 20.7.1871
Do you think this could be interpreted as Matilda being born in the UK, and then follow the names of those born in Tasmania?
Which means the marriage should be in the UK too.
Or perhaps a first marriage in the UK.
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NFR = “No further record”??
Ie perhaps he is recorded as a juror at an inquest on 5 March 1856, at Welcome Inn (E/HGly) and then no further record
Still not sure what 158 is, and still cannot find E/HGly. East? Something?
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The marriage certificate, 1884.....is it a transcription....or......image of a handwritten document?
What occupation does it give for John George HOWARD?.
Labourer, born Sandhurst, Vic the document is handwritten
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NFR = “No further record”??
Ie perhaps he is recorded as a juror at an inquest on 5 March 1856, at Welcome Inn (E/HGly) and then no further record
Still not sure what 158 is, and still cannot find E/HGly. East? Something?
Seeing he was a lawyer would that number ref to a court case he was in?
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TROVE has reports of inquests held in early March 1856, one at Back Creek on 7 March and one at the Welcome inn, Eagle Hawk (sic) on the 5th. No mention of the names of the jurors. I suspect this is the explanation for this part of the record. E/H = Eagle Hawk??
In the Bendigo Advertiser, Sat 8 Mar 1856
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/88049079
Wondering how this reasonably obscure piece of information has come to be recorded.
Judith
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I was just reading that too Jen 😀
So Eagle Hawk Gully perhaps.
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158 must be the court case then ???
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The marriage certificate, 1884.....is it a transcription....or......image of a handwritten document?
I think that John George HOWARD is a sawyer, not a lawyer.
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Wivenhoe - I think you may well be right.
On looking at the inquest report, the doctor's autopsy uses the word 'spleen' a couple of times. The account of John George's testimony gives his occupation as '-awyer' and the first letter is formed in much the same way as the first letter of 'spleen' which would mean that his occupation was, indeed, 'sawyer' not 'lawyer'. There are a couple of capital 'L's in the record (eg surname of the witness Henrietta Llewellyn')which also look similar so very difficult to work out which is correct. Henrietta Llewellyn states that she is the wife of a 'sawyer' or 'lawyer' and there is a slight difference in the capital L of her surname compared to the first letter of her husband's occupation.
Link given earlier by matthewj64
http://access.prov.vic.gov.au/public/component/daPublicBaseContainer?component=daViewItem&entityId=0129625388
However, it would be interesting to see how his occupation looks as written on the son's marriage certificate.
It would also seem to me to be more likely that he would be a sawyer than a professional man, but that is purely an opinion.
Judith
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Ok the Lawyer is a Sawyer what a difference a S makes.
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Can anyone see the death of John, George Howard?
I am unable to find, ? born 1818-1820 according to his son he came from Clarkenwell, London, England.. ??? He resided in the Bendigo area
Thanks