RootsChat.Com
General => The Common Room => Topic started by: lidybut on Monday 04 March 19 22:22 GMT (UK)
-
I'm looking for a divorce between Randolf Churchill Parsons and Mary Hodgkins they married at St James the less, Ashted, Warwick. 2nd June 1907.Randolf's father name is George Gadwall Parsons and Mary's father is George Hodgkins from Gormal, Staffordshire .Many thanks .
-
I'm looking for a divorce between Randolf Churchill Parsons
Marriage reg & cert shows spelling as Randolph - born about 1886. Mary born about 1884
When was their last child born and where? I can only find an Elizabeth b 1913
What other info do you have which shows they divorced?
When did Randolph die as I can't see a death in England
-
Randolph and Mary must have divorced as she married a Taylor at sometime, when not a clue. My dad was a Taylor born in Ombersley Worcestershire 23 4 1923/ 1926 and taken to a children home .I'm sure another brother after my dad called frank.
-
as she married a Taylor at sometime, when not a clue.
My dad was a Taylor born in Ombersley Worcestershire 23 4 1923/ 1926
Have you looked on freebmd for a marriage?
There is no Taylor birth with a mmn Hodgkins in Worcs between 1920-1935
Does your fathers birth cert show his mothers maiden name as Hodgkins?
-
I have to log out now, so will have to leave concrete help until later, but my first thoughts were:
possible bigamy
possible illegitimacy
possible that you may have the wrong Churchill/Hodgkins
Unless you have further information, if your father's surname is Taylor, what led you to this Mary Hodgkins who married Randolph Churchill being his mother?
It was not easy to divorce in the early 1900s, so relatively uncommon. :-\
-
There is a tree on Ancestry which only has basic info. No death for Randolph and no mention of Mary re-marrying etc
I have traced Randolph and his family back to 1871 but there is no birth registration for him and of all the children - only 2 births were registered - his mothers maiden name was Boldin but there is no marriage for a George Parsons and a Mary A Boldin. His father died 1890.
The tree shows he enlisted in WW1 but was discharged in 1918 suffering from shell shock
-
PARSONS, William M
Mother's maiden surname: HOTCHKINS
Birmingham 6d 466
The M is for Michael and for some reason Randolph appears to have later used Michael as his middle name as well. You will find them together in 1939 in Birmingham with Elizabeth and her husband.
Debra :)
-
PARSONS, William M
Mother's maiden surname: HOTCHKINS
Birmingham 6d 466
The M is for Michael and for some reason Randolph appears to have later used Michael as his middle name as well. You will find them together in 1939 in Birmingham with Elizabeth and her husband.
Debra :)
I see that William’s birth registration is Jun qtr 1917. Born 2 May 1917 according to his 2001 death reg.
-
This old thread gives more information re lidybut’s search. It seems quite complicated but there may be more information online now.
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=448295.0
Dad was born in Droitwich 1926 - mother Mary Parsons formerly Taylor.
-
Thank you all for the replies, very much appreciated. Am I allowed to put a birth certificate on here? After a recent death in the family I found out a little more as I thought .I found a death penny with the name of Albert Hodgkin's and searched to his parents George Hodgkin's 1864 death September 1908 Burton age 45 and Hannah Hodgkin's 1863 Gormal Worcestershire found no death. Mary Hodgkin's Gormal Worcestershire .The address 43 Kings Edmond street ?. Elizabeth. Mary. John. George .Alice M ? apparently brothers and sisters.....YES was a bigamist with this family as was a paper cutting. Albert Hodgkin's killed in action Saturday 18 Oct 1918 private 29925 MIKRA British cemetery .Worcestershire Reg was the death penny . This has been ongoing for a few years .Thank you for time x
-
Am I allowed to put a birth certificate on here?
No, you can only transcribe it. You can post part of it if there is something you cannot read
-
I've been following this and doing some research and it's confusing to say the least.
1. Randolph Parsons seems to have spent all his life in Birmingham - in 1939 he's still shown as married (and there's not been another marriage for him) so no divorce I would say.
2. You say your fathers' sister was Alice Maude born 23/1/1922 Droitwich - this birth is in the name of Parsons, mothers maiden name Parsons suggesting an illegitimate birth to a single lady named Parsons. You go on to say on your other thread that Alice married as Alice Gough to John Randell in 1937 BUT this can't be right, surely, as she would only have been 15!!
3. Your fathers birth is registered as Parsons, showing mmn as Taylor (and you say her name is given as Mary) but with no fathers name. This itself would thus indicate that a Mary Taylor had married a Parsons and although still married her husband wasn't the father of her child (her legal surname would still have been Parsons hence child being registered as Parsons).
As was asked earlier how did you make a 'link' that Mary Parsons, nee Taylor was actually Mary Parsons, nee Hodgkins, wife of Randolph??
Where was Mary in 1939? When/where and under what name did she die?
Annette
-
Thank you for your replies .The marriage certificate I found says Worcester on 10 march 1937 .Arthur Taylor 57 widower labour. His father is George. Mary Parsons 47 widow .Rest of certificate is missing . Bible Mary Taylor 8 mill hill Belgrave Leicester. G A Hodgkins 6/97 upper Highgate street Balsall heath Birmingham .Mary Taylor died at Woodshaw Drive Leicester in the 60's. My dad Albert Edward Taylor birth 23 4 1926.Eden farm Ombersley. Mother Mary Parsons formerly Taylor, 1 Harris Hill Droitwich . I'm going to scrap all past post from years back as some was if and buts . :( X
-
Thank you for your replies .The marriage certificate I found says Worcester on 10 march 1937 .
Do you mean 1931? I see a marriage registration Mar qtr 1931 Worcester with Arthur Taylor and Mary Parsons on the page.
What's the relevance of this couple to Albert? The Mary who married in 1931 was (you say) 47 so would have been about 42 when Albert was born in 1926. And supposedly born a Taylor - and then going on to marry a Taylor in 1931? I don't understand at the moment.
-
Having read both threads and looked at the tree on Ancestry - I cannot see any connection between Randolph Churchill Parsons/Mary Hodgkins and your fathers family - so what am I missing?
I think Mary Parsons nee Hodgkins may have died in 1936 which may or may not account for Randolph living with his daughter in 1939.
-
The tree I mentioned shows daughter Elizabeth Gough nee Parsons died 1991. I would recommend you contact the tree owner to see if any information has been passed down within the family about Mary & Randolph
-
Bible Mary Taylor 8 mill hill Belgrave Leicester. G A Hodgkins 6/97 upper Highgate street Balsall heath Birmingham .Mary Taylor died at Woodshaw Drive Leicester in the 60's. My dad Albert Edward Taylor birth 23 4 1926.Eden farm Ombersley. Mother Mary Parsons formerly Taylor, 1 Harris Hill, Droitwich.
Is this information connected to your dad and his family from a bible you possess?
-
The only Mary Taylor who died in Leicester between 1960 and 1970 is a Mary born 20/11/1883, died March 1970 - all the other Mary's had second names??
Where did you 'find' the marriage certificate you refer to between Arthur Taylor and Mary Parsons (which appears to be 1931 and not 1937)? From what you say all you have is that Mary Parsons was 47, and a widow and as rest of certificate 'missing' you can have no idea what her maiden name was??
This is all bizarre - not sure if you have just 'found' things that seem to 'fit'!
Annette
-
Mary Hodgkins was born around 1884 according to the 1907 marriage cert and as Randolph was still alive in 1939 she could not have been a widow in 1931
Suggest you buy a full copy of the 1931 marriage cert to establish Marys maiden name and her fathers name
Nothing you have told us connects to Randolph Parsons and Mary Hodgkins
-
Hi I have the marriage certificate and bible from my dad's house, the date is hard to see it looks either 31 or 37 it was a guess. Mary must have died in Leicester in the 60s as we moved in 68 I went to see her before she died. Her maiden name was Hodgkins .I'm going to send off for her Marriage certificate .Many thanks again for your time .
-
Hi I have the marriage certificate and bible from my dad's house, the date is hard to see it looks either 31 or 37 it was a guess. Mary must have died in Leicester in the 60s as we moved in 68 I went to see her before she died. Her maiden name was Hodgkins .I'm going to send off for her Marriage certificate .Many thanks again for your time .
Please let us know. I am quite confused as I thought you already have the marriage certificate.
-
There's no Mrs Parsons with Randolph on the Birmingham electoral registers from Spring 1925 on.
At 14 Court 11 Lower Tower Street
Randolph Parsons and Harriett Windred (sister?)
Edward and Harriett Windred there in 1922.
-
The only Mary Taylor who died in Leicester between 1960 and 1970 is a Mary born 20/11/1883, died March 1970 - all the other Mary's had second names??
That one could match Mary daughter of George the Glass Cutter
Birth, Dec 1883 Dudley 6c 94
Hodgkins, Mary
mother Turner
1891, Mary age 7 in Dudley, all born Gornal except father George born Dudley
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:W3XC-ZPZ
The 5 month old Alice M is Alice Maud, Dec 1890, Dudley, mmn Turner
Mary Taylor died at Woodshaw Drive Leicester in the 60's.
Woodshaw Rise?
I found a death penny with the name of Albert Hodgkin's
Albert on CWGC
https://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/341073/hodgkins,-albert/
Birth
Sep 1897 Dudley 6c 102
Hodgkins, Albert Edward
mother Turner
1901, no Mary
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XSQ1-1K5
Does lidybut really have a dead mans penny for Albert? That would be pretty interesting evidence.
-
This could be the Leicester connection
Possible marriage of Mary's sister Alice Maud, born 1890?
Jun 1912 Leicester 7a 501
Hampson, Albert A. - spouse Hodgkins
Hodgkins, Alice M. - spouse Hampson
I can see an Alice M Hampson in Leicester in the free index to the 1939 Register.
Born 1890 (trying a few birth months, it's October, i.e. she would have been about 5 months old in the 1891 census)
f.m.p have helpfully returned those TNA references in the address bar! It gives us 6005J/006
Now, searching the free index, with ref 6005J/004, there is an Anna Hodgkinson, born 1862
But on ancestry she is Anna Hodgkins!
Anyway,
George Hodgkins married Anna Turner, 1881, Dudley.
Hannah Hodgkins was 28 in 1891, and 38 in 1901, so born around 1862/3
Hannah Hodgkin's 1863 Gormal Worcestershire found no death.
What about
Dec 1960 Leicester 3a 526
Hodgkins, Hannah
age 98
-
Hello again. On the 1891 Censers I found this. George Hodgkins Head 27 1864 Dudley . Hannah Hodgkins wife 28 1863 Gornal . Eliza Hodgkins Daughter 8 1883.MARY HODGKINS Daughter 7 1884 Gornal .John Hodgkins son 4 1887 Gornal l .George Hodgkins son 2 1889 . Alice M Hodgkins Daughter 5 half months 1880 Dudley.....Address at that time was 43 Kings Edmond street ? ..Going through what you all put this is what's I found. The death could be the one as I thought 1968 ,not far out its a long way in years lol The mother to Mary I was told she had the telegram from the queen for her 100th birthday she lived across the road in woodshaw drive. Just want to say a massive thank you for your help and support x
-
1929, 1931
15 Elmdale Street, Leicester
Albert Arthur Hampson
Alice Maud Hampson
Hannah Hodgkins
Hannah not listed there in 1930
Cecil Francis Hampson listed 1929, 1930
Heaven knows why f.m.p transcribed Anna as Hodgkinson rather than Hodgkins in 39
-
Got Albert Edward Taylor in 1959, at 69 Woodshaw Rise (not Drive!), Leicester
Presumably it is his wife listed with him.
-
Bible Mary Taylor 8 mill hill Belgrave Leicester.
This could be it - the Family Bible vindicated!
1945
Leicester, East Division
Polling District K
No. 10 or Belgrave Ward
MILL HILL
Hodgkins, Hannah 8
Taylor, Mary 8
-
1951
Hannah Hodgkins and Mary Taylor still at 8 Mill Hill
-
Mary Taylor and Hannah Hodgkins at 8 Mill Hill in 1953.
But gone in 1954.
Where to?
-
Let's have a look at the Hampson marriage in Leicester.
2nd June 1912, Leicester St Mark
Albert Arthur Hampson, 31, Widower, Painter, father Arthur William Hampson, Painter
+
Alice Maud Hodgkins, 21, Spinster, Domestic, father George Hodgkins, Glasscutter
residence for both 16 Junction Rd
wit Thomas Hutchins, Annie Hutchins
-
So
We have Hannah Hodgkins (likely died 1960, age 98), living in Leicester with
a) Alice Maud Hampson, daughter of George Hodgkins the glass cutter (as per marriage cert)
b) Mary Taylor, at 8 Mill Hill, as per family bible
-
Jon, you have worked hard. I was very confused with the various names and information but you seem to have sorted it. :)
-
Hi
I was very confused myself ;D
It has started to make sense and come together, I think. Perhaps when registering those later births Mary was a little economical with the facts about her name(s). It would be understandable in the circumstances, and we have seen such things before.
John
-
jonw65 I have the penny and papers .
-
Am I aloud to put on photo of death penny and papers? I don't know how I can thank you all for all the hard work you have put into my family history.I would never ever of solved this myself . Mary and her Mother lived across the road from each other on Woodshaw Drive, Leicester. I remember going a couple of times as child .This family has been a problem for years as dad went into children home somewhere in Worcestershire . Dad didn't have a birth certificate until id say about the 80s so he had to find the children home he was in to get his true name, that was a pain for him .I'm going to see how I can put this all down on paper I've never done this before. Thank you from the bottom of my heart x
-
Hi lidybut
I am pleased that we have been able to help you on this. It does look as though you have been on the right track, and I hope that the marriage certificate will also help when it comes. Although if Mary was committing bigamy, we can't really predict exactly what info she might have given!
I didn't see Mary in Woodshaw, but I didn't have time to look at all years. I will recheck. Albert was there in 1959. Mill Hill was right, but have you got any other possible addresses she might have lived? The post war Leicester electoral registers are not indexed.
It looks like Mary's sister Alice died in Leicester in 1954, so you probably won't remember her. But I guess that Mary (and Albert?) went to Leicester because Alice and her mother were there (I don't know about the other family members)
As your dad was in a children's home, I wondered if perhaps Arthur Taylor had died, but it's such a common name that it might be a hard job to find out when. And there is a married Mary Taylor with the right birth date in 1939, but not with family. Thus I don't know if it's the right one.
I can't advise much about your photos, I have never put one on here and the only attachments I have added were done with some difficulty!
Perhaps you could try it out with just the penny first, and see how it goes?
Good luck.
John
-
When Mary died, Dad went to Woodshaw Rise Dad went to the property and took some items, one including a picture what I wanted when dad got home he started to clean it and the back came away, there was a news paper cutting, the cutting was about a bigamist who it was I'm not sure, the way my parents was talking it was Granny(Mary?) Taylor. I have also a box of army badges .Found my parent's marriage certificate July 2nd 1949 says Arthur Taylor under the name for his father name and surname and something in brackets looks like (uc) I gave all the information I have with names and addresses .Many thanks for all your time X