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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: lost-in-yorkshire on Tuesday 05 March 19 12:32 GMT (UK)
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Could anyone help point me in the right direction of finding an ancestor?
My great grandmother's sister Mary Ann Hanson was born on the 15th of May 1876 in Bethnal Green, London.
To parents George Hanson (1825-1895) a Dairyman and Ann Hanson formerly Ames.
I am unable to find any more information on her.
Her older sister was Catherine Hanson born on the 21st February 1874.
On her birth certificate it states daughter of George Hanson (Dairyman) and Ann Hanson late Dowling formerly Ames.
From what I can gather George and Ann were never married.
Ann had been in a long term relationship with a David Dowling from 1868.
Mary Ann never appeared on census records with her mother or sister.
I have tried searching for deaths but nothing is showing.
I have also come across a workhouse record in 1883 for a Mary Ann Hanson with another child... A Elizabeth Hanson alias Anderson born 1879.
Ann had had a child in 1879 named Elizabeth Dowling that also never appeared on census records with them.
The Anderson connection is from Ann's elder sister Mary, who married a William Anderson in Bethnal Green in 1855, they do not appear on census records either.
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Welcome to Rootschat. :)
Just for the sake of it this is Mary Ann's birth registration
HANSON, MARY ANN AMES
GRO Reference: 1876 J Quarter in BETHNAL GREEN Volume 01C Page 257
So from your point if view all you have on Mary is her birth registration?
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Yes, I have her birth certificate.
I modified my post to say mmn Ames.
All I have for certain is the birth as I cannot find any census records or a death record if she died young.
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Hmm, interesting.....
Ann may have been in a relationship with David from 1868 but doesn't marry him until 1878
Marriages Jun 1878
Ames Ann Bethnal Green 1c 370
DOWLING David Bethnal Green 1c 370
Children from the relationship
DOWLING, DAVID FRANCIS AMES
GRO Reference: 1869 M Quarter in SAINT GEORGE IN THE EAST Volume 01C Page 439
DOWLING, ELIZABETH AMES
GRO Reference: 1870 S Quarter in SAINT GEORGE IN THE EAST Volume 01C Page 420
Another Elizabeth which implies that the one above died.
DOWLING, ELIZABETH AMES
GRO Reference: 1879 M Quarter in STEPNEY Volume 01C Page 462
Might be this death
Deaths Sep 1871
Dowling Elizabeth 0 Bethnal Green 1c 203
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is this the family in question?
1871 Star St, St George in the East RG10/536 folio 50 pg 5
David Dowling head mar 25 bricklayer's labourer b. Ireland, Cork
Ann wife 24 boxmaker b. Bethnal Green
Caroline dau 4 b. St George in the East
Elizabeth dau 8 months b. St George
birth reg Elizabeth Dowling sept qtr 1870 St George in the East vol 1c pg 420 mmn Ames
1881 1 Gloucestershire St, Limehouse RG11/467 folio 25 pg 13
David Dowling head mar 35 general labourer b. Cork
Ann wife 34 matchbox maker b. Bethnal Green
Margaret dau 15 matchbox maker b. Whitechapel - birth reg Margaret Ames jun qtr 1866 Whitechapel no mmn
Elizabeth dau 12 b. Ratcliff
Catharine dau 8 b. St Georges
1891 15 Perring St, Bromley Rg12323 folio 56 pg 5
David Dowling head mar 44 dock labourer b. Cork
Ann wife 43 matchbox maker b. Stepney
Catherine dau 17 fancy boxmaker
David son 10
Grace dau 6
William son 6 months
others born Bromley
Only baptism I've found so far is for Grace 8 April 1885 dau of David & Anne 5 St George's Court at St John the Evangelist, Stepney
birth reg Grace Dowling june qtr 1885 St George in the East vol 1c pg 348 mmn Ames
Marriage 2 April 1878 at St James the Great Bethnal Green for
David Dowling labourer father Patrick shoemaker and
Ann Ames father William cap maker
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From what I can gather with census information (with which you have also just posted) and birth information they (Ann and David) were having children from 1869 right up until 1895.
They married in the April of 1878.
My great grandmother Catherine was baptised in the September of 1878...as Hanson.
It seems that Ann may have had a brief relationship with George between 1873 and the start of 1878.
My theory is, that David was unsure of Catherine, or believed her to be his.
Mary Ann he knew was not. So could be part of the reason why Mary Ann is not with her family.?
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Do you think Caroline and Margaret could be one and the same? Or two individuals?
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I think it's the same girl. Couldn't find a birth reg for a Caroline.
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That is my thought when I was looking for births... I was unable to find a Caroline.
On the 1911 census that I found for David, (Ann had died in the January so just missed it) he had wrote that there were 7 children of the marriage... 4 of which had died.
ofcourse this had then been crossed out.
I shall have to tally who was alive and who had died from the names... I do not think he has counted Catherine or Mary Ann (as they were not his).
I'll check how many were born after 1878 to see if he just counted them or from the entirety of the relationship.
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There appears to be the following children:-
1867 Caroline/Margaret, 1869 David died, 1870 Elizabeth died, 1879 Elizabeth, 1881 David, 1884 Patrick, 1885 Grace, 1888 William and 1891 Francis.
Nine altogether, all Dowling/Ames
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Also Ann Dowling born 1894 in Belvedere, Kent... She is the only daughter at home by 1911. Also on the 1901.
So that would make the 7 from his marriage if he counted from 1878.
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There is no birth recorded for Ann. Certainly not as Dowling/Ames.
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Have you found out anything with the first Elizabeth (1870) I have her up until 1881 with the family and then lose her?
Not sure why they would name another daughter Elizabeth and then not keep the 2nd one.
I noticed you put died at the side...
Very strange with Ann then listed as daughter... Maybe a granddaughter in reality?
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baptism in St Paul Shadwell 29 Sept 1878 for Catherine Hanson, born 21 Feb, 1874 daughter of George, milker, and Ann of 36? London Street, Commercial Road
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possibly misheard maiden name
Ann Dowling june qtr 1894 Dartford vol 2a pg 455 mmn Hains
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Just checked GRO, it says Hains for mmn.
Not sure then if a mistranscription of the surname... Or a child of just David's?
If Ann could play away... Who's to say David didn't?
Yes Catherine was my great grandmother, born and baptised as Hanson, lived on census records as a Dowling.
She married a George Pearmain in 1895 in Tower Hamlets using the name Kathleen Hanson.
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I wasn't absolutely sure that the death I found was for the 1870 Elizabeth. I see that the 1879 Elizabeth is not on the 1881 with the family.
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no, but the one born 1870 is on the 1871 & 1881 census so why would another daughter be called Elizabeth?
???
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I'm not overly sure why 1879 Elizabeth is not on the 1881 census or 1891...and with Mary Ann not appearing too.
Especially with Catherine being on them.
I had found a workhouse record from 1883, with Mary Ann Hanson aged 7 and a Elizabeth Hanson alias Anderson aged 4...which I thought may be them.
Ann Ames their mother had a sister Mary who married a William Anderson in 1855.
That's what got me thinking were they fostered out to extended family?
The downside is that I cannot find the Anderson's either!
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Well I suppose to clarify matters Lost could always get a pdf birth of the 1879 Elizabeth.
DOWLING, ELIZABETH AMES
GRO Reference: 1879 M Quarter in STEPNEY Volume 01C Page 462
This birth is registered in Stepney as opposed to St. George in the East.
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I shall try that, hopefully if I have her d.o.b I may be able to find out more about her too.
At the moment then, it is both Mary Ann and Elizabeth that just seem to be born with nothing further on them.
I tried looking for Mary Ann via the 1939 register and it gave me a list of ones born on the day/month/year.
So I'll also try searching through to find whilst awaiting the cert for Elizabeth. :)
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I don't think that is the correct birth reg. That could be the Elizabeth who died and then there is birth reg that I posted earlier
Elizabeth Dowling sept qtr 1870 St George in the East vol 1c pg 420 mmn Ames
which would match the age of 8 months given on the 1871 census.