RootsChat.Com
Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: SonnyN67 on Tuesday 05 March 19 18:04 GMT (UK)
-
Hi - I’m new to genealogy....can anyone point me in the right direction?
I am trying to find when a relative died (of injury WW1)
Alfred Shaw born 1894 Rugeley, Staffordshire. (Mother Margaret Danks, father George H Shaw)
Thanks
-
Can anyone please help...I am new to genealogy!
I have a relative Alfred Shaw born 1894, Rugeley, Staffordshire (Mother Margaret Danks, Father George Henry Shaw)
I believe he died of injuries during WW1.....can anyone help me find the date of death, I’m trying to establish where he was buried, whether UK or France etc.
Many thanks
-
Hi
Have you checked https://www.cwgc.org it’s a good place to start.
Nic
-
Thanks Nic
Unfortunately I don’t have a Regiment or Service number.....I think this maybe a challenge too far due to the lack of information I have.
Thanks for the response, appreciated.
-
Welcome to Rootschat
I`ve taken a look at the cwgc site. If you enter his name, Army and WW1 it brings up 189. Clicking on the arrow at the r.side gives you more information, including service number. There are also some n.o.ks as well.
It will take you a time to go through them, but hopefully you will find what you need.
-
The CWGC website really is the way to go but you’ll find that 177 people named Alfred Shaw died in WW1 - and that’s just those from the UK.
If you really don’t have any more information, you could spend a happy couple of hours going through them to see if any of them have the right parents. The Grave Registration forms will give yiu the most information.
-
Try the Commonwealth War Graves Commission website. There are quite a few Alfred SHAWs. Do you know which service/regiment he served in?
https://www.cwgc.org/find/find-war-dead/results?firstName=alfred&lastName=shaw&war=1
-
I've just looked at the CWGC site too, and found that you can narrow the results down by age at death. I know you don't have a date of death, but since you know he was born in 1894 you can specify a range such as 19 to 26. That cuts the list of results down considerably.
-
That`s good thinking, I was looking for a box for d o b, but couldn`t see one. Now you`ve siad it, it`s obvious !!!
-
topics now merged
I'll ask a moderator to lock this one.
-
Not all of the entries on the CWGC website have an age or (for example) a service number. Also, if he died of injuries from the war but after 31st August 1921, he wouldn't necessarily be included. See criteria below on the IFCP website.
http://www.infromthecold.org/war_grave_criteria.asp
In the search section, if you click on 'Additional Information', you can enter things like a parent's christian name or where they lived. Again, this information may not be recorded and so you may not get a return from it but worth a try.
Once you have a list of names showing, click on 'download' above the top right corner of the table and the data will export to your downloads folder in spreadsheet format. Much easier to go through.
-
Is this a relation on the Rugeley war memorial?
https://www.warmemorialsonline.org.uk/memorial/177453
Did he marry Lucy HINDLEY in 1915 in Lichfield? If so, you know his death was after that.
EDIT: Just another long-shot thought - if he died of wounds after the war ended, he may have drawn a pension until that time. Ancestry has many of the Western Front Association WWI Pension Ledgers and Index Cards 1914-1923 and there are a few Alfred SHAWs on there.
-
Thanks for all your replies ref Alfred born in 1894, very interesting.
I have had a look on the CWGC as suggested - found one possible interesting entry.
Private A Shaw (hope that’s A for Alfred!?) service number 37136 2nd Battalion South Staffordshire Regiment.
The tiny bit of passed down information I have, is that he was shot/died in Belgium....but the above person’s war Grave is in Metz-En-Couture (Calais) France.
So daft question time then, as I say I’m new to this.....how do I find out if I have the correct man, did they issue actual death certificates if you died in action and how would I go about finding his...I would assume a death certificate would have his next of kin on....and that’s how I verify him?
Wondering if there is any mileage in contacting the regiment for info?
Sorry for the ramble, more questions than answers at this stage.
Thanks
-
You could try finding his service record although c. 75% of those from WW1 were destroyed in a fire.
The surviving records are indexed on the main websites, Ancestry and FindMyPast. I've checked the latter quickly and there are four entries for A/Alfred SHAW for the service number you found, one of which is a service record. If you don't already have a subscription to these websites, perhaps a 14 day free trial may help. You can then download scans of the original documents.
The National Archives also has a medal card for Alfred SHAW for that service number but it's £3.50 to download and you're likely to get similar info (and more of it) in the service record.
-
I have had a look on the CWGC as suggested - found one possible interesting entry.
Private A Shaw (hope that’s A for Alfred!?) service number 37136 2nd Battalion South Staffordshire Regiment.
Soldiers Died In The Great War 1914-1919 says Alfred Shaw, 37136, Sth Staffs, was born in Mansfield and resident in Sutton in Ashfield.
You can search the free index (results gives the place of birth info) here
https://search.findmypast.co.uk/search-world-Records/soldiers-died-in-the-great-war-1914-1919
The National Archives also has a medal card for Alfred SHAW for that service number but it's £3.50 to download and you're likely to get similar info (and more of it) in the service record.
It's the medal index card. No need to pay £3.50 as they are free on ancestry (you just need to be registered)
See it here, it would have course been of no help in identifying 37136
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01nh8/
Registers of Soldiers' Effects, 1901-1929, on ancestry (and not free), has Alfred Shaw, 37136, South Staffordshire Regiment, died 3.2.18
And that shows that payments were to be to his widow Fanny.
-
Possible marriage for Alfred SHAW to Fanny WARDLE in Q3 1914 in Mansfield. Google FreeBMD to get the website that has an index for this. Just a hunch, but the marriage posted earlier to Lucy HINDLEY looks more likely for a Rugeley resident.
Don't know what jonw65 means by 'It's the medal index card'. National Archives has a scan of the medal card to download (the catalogue description is 'Medal card of Shaw, Alfred...etc.') although it does feature in 'WO 372 - War Office: Service Medal and Award Rolls Index, First World War'.
-
A bit on Lucy Maria Hindley, who married an Alfred Shaw in 1915
This looks like her in the free index to 1911 (you need to be logged in!)
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XW7L-5XN
Teachers Registration Council
1 Dec 1919
Lucy Maria Shaw
St George's Girls' School, Stamford, Lincoln (she was Head Mistress there)
It says that she had been an Assistant Mistress at Chase Terrace Girls' School, nr. Walsall, Staffs, 1905-19
Possible death?
March 1969 Stamford 3b 170
Shaw, Lucy M.
age 83
Probate, same year, for a Lucy Maria Shaw of Stamford, who died 19 March 1969
https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Calendar?surname=shaw&yearOfDeath=1969&page=9#calendar
In between, she can be found easily enough in the 1939 Register. And also Stamford electoral registers.
-
Just a thought - I use my library for free access to Anc. and FindMyPast.
One man`s record I found had his complete family listed, wife and children. I think I was very lucky to find all this, but he had a very unusual surname.
-
Just a thought - I use my library for free access to Anc. and FindMyPast.
One man`s record I found had his complete family listed, wife and children. I think I was very lucky to find all this, but he had a very unusual surname.
Good idea to use the library
TNA website
British Army medal index cards 1914-1920
These records are index cards created by the Army Medal Office towards the end of the First World War. They record the medals that men and women who served in the First World War were entitled to claim. Please note you can also download and view these records on ancestry.co.uk (£).
In fact the £ sign is misleading, the cards are free to view on ancestry.
-
So National Archives uses differing terminology but they mean the same thing.
-
Whatever, it wouldn't have helped identify him.
Alfred Shaw, 37136, looks to be eliminated.
The possible marriage to Lucy Hindley looks promising. She was a school teacher, and doesn't appear to have remarried after the death of her husband. But when and where did he die?
John
Have to say though, Alfred Shaw is such a common name. So caution is needed re that possible marriage.
-
Might find him on a war memorial but where to look? Not all of them, or their names, are listed on-line, and he may not have made it to a memorial anyway.
Lucy going to Lincs in 1919 is interesting. Perhaps a move after Alfred died?
I wonder if Sonny has any more info that might help with this.
-
Well, I think Lucy's husband died in 1919, and he looks to be too old to be the Alfred we want (drat!)
Death
Sep 1919 Stamford 7a 278
Shaw, Alfred
age 29
Probate record - administration to Lucy Maria Shaw widow. She was still living in Wharf Road Stamford in the early 20's.
https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Calendar?surname=shaw&yearOfDeath=1919&page=1#calendar
-
Alfred's in Whittington, Huddlesford (Lichfield, Staffs) in 1911 and he's 'coal filling'. There was a barracks in Whittington which is now the Staffs Regiment Museum. They may be able to help.
http://www.staffordshireregimentmuseum.com
Can't find a suitable nearby memorial with Alfred on it. Wonder if he went by the name of Fred.
His bp was 28.10.1894 in St Augustine, Rugeley.
-
That’s it ....Alfred’s family lived in Huddlesford near Whittington, his younger sister Elsie (my grandmother lived there).
Thanks for all this help.
Looks like I am best contacting the Regiment for info.