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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: brianthecow on Friday 08 March 19 09:13 GMT (UK)
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Hi all. This is a complete shot in the dark but here goes.
My great aunt Edith Agnes FLETCHER was born in 1901 in Newport, Shropshire, England. Family lore has it that she emigrated to Australia, probably some time in the 1920s. There's a suggestion that she may have married before she left England so may have travelled under a different surname. I believe that members of her family in Australia may have made enquiries in Shropshire some years ago but the people they spoke to couldn't help them.
Any information gratefully received, thank you.
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Hi,
An online tree has Edith married to Denis Papchuck 9 Nov 1919, Liverpool.
Denis and Edith the emigrate to Australia -
Mrs E A Papchuck & D Papchuck
Departure Place - London
Arrival Date - 16 Apr 1920
Arrival Place - Fremantle, Western Australia, Australia
Vessel - Ceramic
Possible marriage -
Edith A Papchuck
Marriage Place - Western Australia
Registration Place - Perth, Western Australia
Registration Year - 1933
Registration Number - 779
Spouse - Frederick Patrick Peirl
To ensure the details are correct it would be advisable to purchase the marriage cert for Edith A Fletcher in 1919, Liverpool to ensure it's the correct line.
JJ
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Newspaper article covering the divorce of Edith and Denis -
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/79483665?searchTerm=papchuck&searchLimits=
JJ
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naa.gov.au has several files for PAPCHUCK Denis [Daniel]
These three are avail to view online (others not yet avail but can request a copy for a fee)
https://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/NAAMedia/ShowImage.aspx?B=4313129&T=PDF
PAPCHUCK Daniel - Nationality: Russian - Arrived Geraldton [WA] per unknown 22 March 1913
PAPCHUCK, D https://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/Interface/ViewImage.aspx?B=1947481
https://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/Interface/ViewImage.aspx?B=4377265
PAPCHUCK Denis : Service Number - 2358 : Place of Birth - Beresdorf Russia : Place of Enlistment - Blackboy Hill WA : Next of Kin - (Mother) PAPCHUCK Ulyora
Fremantle Cemetery http://www2.mcb.wa.gov.au/NameSearch/details.php?id=FB00020425
Daniel PAPCHUCK; age 65; DoD 17/05/1958
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Karrakatta Cemetery
Edith Agnes PEIRL; age 78; DoD 23/07/1979
http://www2.mcb.wa.gov.au/NameSearch/details.php?id=KB00159612
Frederick Patrick PEIRL;age 100; DoD 25/08/1991
http://www2.mcb.wa.gov.au/NameSearch/details.php?id=KB00178034
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Public Trustee (Administration of Estate) notice:
(pg 64) https://www.slp.wa.gov.au/gazette/gazette.nsf/gazlist/9da766243a1e16cfc82573b500810452/$file/gg057.pdf
(pg 71) https://www.slp.wa.gov.au/gazette/gazette.nsf/gazlist/A6B0FAF4D692430AC82573B5007F3563/$file/gg053.pdf
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Denis Papchuck https://russiananzacs.net/Papchuck
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Wow, thank you all for your responses. I didn't really expect to hear anything. I had previously found possible marriages for Edith A. FLETCHER including to Denis PAPCHUCK, although it was only one of many possibilities, but I hadn't found them on passenger lists (I was probably searching for later dates, as Edith would have been only 18 years old in 1919). If this is her marriage, and as you say, JJen, I will have to order a marriage certificate to confirm this, it opens up a whole can of worms. While I was out at the gym my other half found lots of information about Denis PAPCHUCK, and what an interesting character he was, including all of his First World War service records (ANZAC on the Western Front, gassed and probably recuperated in the UK) and divorce record (thanks also JJen and cupoflife). Edith appears to have committed adultery with a William Jamieson but doesn't seem to have married him. As well as a possible PEIRL marriage in 1933 I have found a possible marriage to a Rollo M. INVERARITY in Northam in 1928.
Thank you cupoflife for providing the names of the PAPCHUCK children, although I think all of them are from a subsequent marriage. There are also three more PAPCHUCK children registered at this time: Patrick in 1920 in Fremantle, Thomas in 1921 in Geraldton, and James in 1923 in Sussex (the divorce article says that the couple lived in Geraldton until 1924 and had three children).
There's lots going on here and I will have to read and digest it all.
Thank you all again!
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Thanks to all who responded to my original post. From the marriage certificate I was able to confirm that Edith Fletcher did marry Denis (he later called himself Daniel) Papchuck in the UK and they arrived in Fremantle in 1920. I now want to track down their children: Patrick Daniel, b. 1920 in Marine, Fremantle; Thomas Vincent, b. 1921, Geraldton; and James A., b. 1923, Sussex., and any marriages and grandchildren.
The couple divorced in 1928 and in a newspaper article Mr Papchuck is quoted as saying that he had placed the children in the care of the State.
I have found the death of Patrick Daniel in Perth in 1970 but by that stage his surname is ROBERTS, which leads me to believe that one or more of the children may have been adopted. I have also found a death for a Thomas Vincent Roberts in 1984 although the age at death is a year or two out.
Mr Papchuck remarried and had several more children. His second wife died young and he then appears to have placed at least one of these children, Raymond Papchuck, in Parkerville Children's Home. Maybe Patrick, Thomas and James were placed there too.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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http://wamarriage.info 1947#1598 Patrick D. ROBERTS and *** DUNKLEY; Perth
Patrick Daniel ROBERTS DoD 11/08/1970 : http://www2.mcb.wa.gov.au/NameSearch/details.php?id=KC00035123
Some mentions on TROVE
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/46731630
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/47159719
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/79816065
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/46886175
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1954 #54 Thomas Vincent ROBERTS and Edna May MERCER; East Coolgardie
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/218056836
PRETTY WEDDING AT COOLGARDIE
Edna May, daughter, of Mrs. N. and the late Mr. J. Mercer, became the wife of Thomas Vincent Roberts, son of Mrs. F. P. Peirle, of Hyde-street, Mt. Lawley....
Thomas Vincent ROBERTS DoD 19/07/1984; age 62 http://www2.mcb.wa.gov.au/NameSearch/details.php?id=KB00167661
Edna May ROBERTS DoD 20/04/1987; age 56 http://www2.mcb.wa.gov.au/NameSearch/details.php?id=GB00003662
Mention on TROVE
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/80797407
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https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/44808688
The engagement is announced of ***** eldest daughter of Mrs B. M. Draper, of East Fremantle, to Gnr J. A. Roberts, son and step-son of Sgt. and Mrs F. P. Peirl of Mt Lawley.
http://wamarriage.info 1944 #376 J**** A. ROBERTS and ***** DRAPER; Fremantle
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http://wamarriage.info 1952 #179 A*** J. PAPCHUCK; and Ellen E. ORR; Swan
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/52928780
PAPCHUCK (nee Orr): Sept. 15, to Ellen and Alec-a daughter (L****** K**). Both well.
Ellen PAPCHUCK Obituary (has pics) (google name of daughter in Ellen PAPCHUCK Guest Book)
http://www.westannouncements.com.au/obituaries/thewest-au/obituary-search.aspx?daterange=99999&firstname=Ellen&lastname=Papchuck&countryid=11&stateid=202&affiliateid=all
http://www2.mcb.wa.gov.au/NameSearch/details.php?id=KC00183718
Ellen Elizabeth PAPCHUCK; age 77; DoD 20/09/2011; Suburb: Cloverdale
see https://www.whitepages.com.au/residential
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Thank you so much for all that information, cupoflife. That has given me a lot to go on. It's interesting that the children maintained contact with their mother, even though she was the 'guilty party' in their parents' divorce. I'm still wondering whether they were adopted or whether they just chose to change their surname to Roberts. I guess my next step is to get an An****ry account to try to find the births of any grandchildren, unless anyone can suggest another option. I have tried the 'Ask a Librarian' service for possible information about State care and adoption but so far (nearly 3 weeks) haven't received a reply. I'm sure they have plenty more pressing things to do so I don't have high hopes for that. On we go. Best regards.
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Both Thomas Vincent and his brother James served in WWII. Their mother Edith was listed as next of kin for both.
Search https://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/Interface/SearchScreens/BasicSearch.aspx
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Note in 1949 Daniel Papchuck states he arrived in Australia in 1913 to Geraldton, was widowed, and had several children but with different names to those you have posted. ???
https://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/Interface/ViewImage.aspx?B=4313129
It appears this same man enlists in 1915 as Denis Papchuck, aged 23, single, and gives his mother in Russia as next of kin.
EDIT: I see the children on the 1949 statement were with 2nd wife Annie who died in 1943 ;) His 3rd wife Olive remarried and died in 1990.
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Hi,
An online tree has Edith married to Denis Papchuck 9 Nov 1919, Liverpool.
Denis and Edith the emigrate to Australia -
Mrs E A Papchuck & D Papchuck
Departure Place - London
Arrival Date - 16 Apr 1920
Arrival Place - Fremantle, Western Australia, Australia
Vessel - Ceramic
JJ
If you look up the passenger index at NAA (same link as above) the actual passenger listing for the Ceramic in 1920 only shows Mrs E. A. Papchuck arriving...no Mr D. Papchuck. Possibly an assumption by the tree owner?
EDIT: Just noticed his service record shows he came to Australia with his wife in 1920 on Ceramic!!
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naa.gov.au
Not yet digitised:
Item details for: K1055, PEIRL EA
PEIRL Edith Agnes [Personal History Cards of Staff Employed in Munitions Factories in Western Australia]
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Thanks Mollipops1. I hadn't found the WWII record for Thomas Vincent.
And thanks cupoflife for the info about Edith working in the munitions factory. It all helps to build a picture of the family.
;D
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A few observations ;D
The WW1 record for Denis PAPCHUCK, (who by the way could not write his name) show that he arrived in Geraldton in 1913 and enlisted in AIF, a tunneler. His mother was noted as NOK.
On 26th March he applied at Bhurpore Barracks Tidworth for discharge saying he wished to return to Russia and had not had contact with his family mother etc. there and he intended to live there permanently.
The discharge was granted July 1919.
The marriage to Edith Agnes FLETCHER took place in Nov. 1919 and the birth record for Patrick
PAPCHUCK Patrick D C Marine
At Fremantle
Reg 1
1920
So Patrick was born on the way to Aust.
You can make what you will of the sequence of events!
Sue
ADDING.
By the way, both E A PAPCHUCK and D PAPCHUCK were on the Ceramic .
He listed as ex AIF and she as dependent of ex AIF.
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Thanks, sparrett, for your observations, all of which are true. I just want to ask about the birth record for Patrick Daniel. Does the registration district 'Marine' indicate a birth at sea? I guess also the registration number 1 would indicate the first birth registration in that district on arrival in April 1920. As Edith and Denis gave the same address on their marriage certificate it's not surprising that a baby was born soon after. A newspaper report of 28 January 1948 gives Patrick's age as 28, so that figures, although I appreciate that newspapers don't always get it right!
My guess is that Edith and Denis met in London round about the time of his discharge from the AIF in the summer of 1918. Maybe they went to Liverpool with the idea of sailing to the USA, as this would be the logical port to sail from. They lived there for a little while, as Denis worked in a sugar factory. For whatever reason they returned to London and went to Australia instead, as Denis was entitled to do as an ex-ANZAC.
I would have thought that the baby would have been listed on the disembarkation records at Fremantle.
By the time of his naturalisation in 1952 Denis Papchuck was still illiterate, in English at any rate.
EDIT: Denis was of course discharged in 1919, not 1918.
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Hi
There is not a registration district "Marine" Yes born at sea.
Application by PAPCHUCK for discharge to see his family in Russia 26th March 1919.
Granted July 1919
Married Nov 1919
To Aust per Ceramic arriving April 1920
Patrick's birth registered at the destination. WA.
Sue
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Ah, right. Thanks.
Just out of interest I googled 'SS Ceramic' and found that it was a White Star liner that sailed between LIVERPOOL and Australia. So they didn't sail from London as per the records and explains why they were in Liverpool in the first place.
I don't think Denis Papchuck ever visited his mother. He states that he only left Australia once, to fight in WWI.
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I don't think Denis Papchuck ever visited his mother. He states that he only left Australia once, to fight in WWI.
Yes, he seems to have got waylaid in the plan for the visit home.
He named a daughter from his second marriage after his mother.
Sue
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Hi, I have been intrigued to read the entries for Edith Agnes Fletcher as she is my Great Aunt. I am in England where she originates from. She was one of several siblings to mother Emma nee Bradburne and Edward Fletcher, my great grandparents. Among her siblings was William Fletcher who served in WW1 and died on the Somme. He served with 5th Battalion Kings Shropshire light Infantry (KSLI) and died in the New Zealand Stationary Hospital in Amiens, France; DoD Aug 28th 1916 service number 19073 . He is buried in a local civilian/military cemetery which I have visited on a couple of occasions. Much of the family still live in Shropshire. The intriguing aspect of this is how did my great aunt meet a Ukrainian seaman who enlisted with ANZAC forces, finding herself with child out of wedlock and then set sail for Australia. I'll be looking into this to see if there is any more available. Photographs attached. If I follow the thread correctly, I think some of us are related.
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Has anyone got a photograph of Edith's grave or any other.I tried hard with family members to see if there was any memorabilia or photograph of William Fletcher; also tried a search of local newspapers for any entry but all to no avail. Attached photograph shows the former war memorial which was subjected to vandalism so it has now been relocated to a much more suitable site.
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For brianthecow I can tell you that the three sons, Pat, Tom, and Jim all changed their name to Roberts in July of 1940. They were not adopted.