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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: scouse lee on Friday 08 March 19 13:01 GMT (UK)
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Hi guys, I started my family tree off years ago but failing mental health and a few other problems put a stop to it so I'm now trying to work out what all my notes mean and slowly getting the tree together again. I've taken out a subscription to Ancestry and I'm on Scotland's People but as yet I've not paid for any credits on the latter because I need to know the best way to do things 1st. So, I am at my great grandfather and his wife now and I know his name was Patrick Murray, (seems to have used Peter a lot though), and he was from Ireland, I know the date of their marriage, (hopefully), and where it was and I have an address for them from the 1871 Scotland census, the problem is I have 4 or 5 possible birth dates for both Patrick & Grace plus I don't know the name of Patricks father or anything else about him prior to 1871. Any recommendations for what should be my next step?, seeing their marriage certificate would be handy but on Ancestry the transcript only gives Patrick & Graces names so no fathers or witnesses. Thanks in advance.
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If they married or died in Scotland, the marriage certificates should give the names of parents of both the bride and groom. Similarly with their death certificates.
Information on the marriage certificate is given by the parties themselves so is generally more reliable.
Use some credits on Scotland's People to instantly download the certificate/s.
Added: I just realised I should have asked you the year of marriage as civil registration only started in 1855 in Scotland. Before that you have to rely on parish registers which don't contain much information.
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Thank you for the reply, I've just downloaded the marriage certificate off Scotland's People and I'm now trying to decipher it ::) , they were married on 15th April 1870 with the place being recorded as Tradeston, Glasgow on records I've seen previously but I think I've worked out the name Laurieston on the cert, (which is basically Tradeston), having trouble with the street name but Patricks dad seems to be John McMorrow, (the name Morrow has surfaced before as the surname of one of Patricks sons strangely enough), can't figure out the rest of the details for John though.
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I think the address is 33 Muirhead Street, Glasgow but wouldn't care to swear to that.
John is farm labourer, not sure what Susan's maiden name is though.
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Yes Patrick and Grace lived at 33 Muirhead Street with Graces mother Helen, not sure who you mean by Susan and yes I agree with farm labourer, trying to find John McMorrow in Ireland which is supposedly where Patrick was born but nothing found as yet. Still confused with the name McMorrow though, Patrick possibly changed his surname to Murray, (which would be quite a shock to me), who knows.
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Susan is Patrick's mother! I think her maiden name may be Somers but not sure. The S is the same as the S for M.S. (Maiden surname).
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Oh yes I see that now!, totally missed mothers name at 1st.....................I looked at a map of Laurieston to see if I could work out where they were married and the best I can get is Cumberland Street, (15 I think although it's strange that it isn't actually the name of a church).
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It says underneath the address After banns according to the F----?? of the Reformed ---------rian Church.
Can't make out the words! ???
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Ah, I think we are looking at this for the church - Reformed Presbyterian Church
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Wow your eyesight is better than mine!..............you've done this before haven't you.
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If you are having trouble interpreting any documents, you can post a snip of it here to get other’s opinions. Scotland’s People occassionally have such poor scans that we all have difficulty. In cases such as this you can request a new scan. They are very good with this type of request. ;)
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Thank you, I will put a picture of the certificate up later.
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How do I insert an image on here?, it's different from another forum I'm on............the image is stored on imgur
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Underneath the reply box you will see the words Attachments and other options.
Click on that, look for your image and then attach it. Be aware that if it is too big it won't take it. I can't remember what the maximum size is.
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No, it's not letting me
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Let's see if I can do this. Just putting the first two boxes in.
If you want more let me know.
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Yes it's the name of his mother I can't get, looks like Susan S?????, his father is John McMorrow which means Patrick changed his name to Murray, (and also changed his 1st name to Peter on and off!), keep finding info that throws a spanner in the works! I have Peter and Grace living at 33 Muirhead Street, Glasgow in 1871 but his name is down as Patrick Menor and I've just found a Patrick McMorrow living about 2 doors down in the same year!
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Unless I am missing something, I can’t see the column with parent’s names. Could you please post that part GG? :)
Lee, can I take you back a step or two just to double check? It is quite possible that Patrick used an alias or two, and there might be variations of surnames, but it may also be that there are more than one Peter/Patrick/McMorrow/Morrow/Murray.
How did you get to this Patrick and Grace? Do you have your grandfather’s birth certificate which names Patrick Murray and Grace Carruthers as his parents?
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No, it's not letting me
I think each time you try to post an image, you need to give it a new title.
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You can try asking scotlandspeople for help if you cannot read the image, or try a request for a new scan, which can end up fantastically better than the first one. (I think I managed 4 or 5 requests in one evening when I encountered a particularly poor lot)
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Here is the bit with the address and the parents.
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Thanks GG. ;)
Looks like Susan McMorrow MS Somers?
Address: 33 Muirhead Street.
I agree with Pat. I think scan this is borderline (with some unreadable words) so you might like to ask for a better scan, even if only for your records so anyone looking at your documentation in the future will be able to easily read it. :)
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I thought the maiden surname was Somers but wasn't 100% certain.
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Thanks guys, I have contacted Scotland's People to see if they can help, in the meantime I have discovered a lot more info but unfortunately it muddies everything rather than make it clearer ::) I decided to try and find my Grandfathers birth certificate but because his d.o.b. is different on his marriage certificate, death register and merchant navy card it's proving pretty impossible :(
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Could you give us those different birth dates please?
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His marriage certificate just says age 29 so born 1840/1841. That's assuming he gave his correct age.
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Grandfather or great-grandfather?
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It says underneath the address After banns according to the F----?? of the Reformed ---------rian Church.
Can't make out the words! ???
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Ah, I think we are looking at this for the church - Reformed Presbyterian Church
After Banns and according to the Forms of the Reformed Presbyterian Church
If it were in Sydney NSW Australia in that same era, the marriage ceremony may have been conducted at a private residence (bride's or groom's family or friend's home or even the residence of the clergyman or the organist), rather than in the Church building. 'Forms' as in the written 'rites' of the Reformed Presbyterian Church...
JM
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Scottish marriages often took place at the Manse or the bride's residence. :)
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15 Cumberland Street appears to have been in this block:
https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side-by-side/#zoom=19&lat=55.8487&lon=-4.2594&layers=168&right=BingHyb
(doesn't look like a Manse though :) )