RootsChat.Com
Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: francoso on Monday 11 March 19 03:57 GMT (UK)
-
Me again. Please would sks transcribe the above will for me. I have divided it into 3 Snippets and the first is below. Many thanks in advance. francoso
-
In the name of god Amen the xx day of October in the yeare of our lord god 1576
the eighten yeare of the reigne of our sovereigne Lady Elizabeth by the grace of *
England france & Ireland defender of the fayth. I Lawrenc Death of Shympling
in the county of Suff And in the dyoce of norwich husbandman being sicke in body but
of hole & p(er)fit remembranc thankes be unto allmyghty god do ordin & make this my last
will & testament in manner & forme followinge Revokinge frustratinge & a voydinge all other
former wiles & testamentes heretofore by me declared or mad And firstly I will & bequeth my
sowll unto Almigty god my maker & redemer trusting that by the merites & death of his sonne
& saviour Jesus Christ to be p(ar)taker of his heavenly Kingdome (sp?) & my bodie to be buried in the church
yeard of Shimplinge a for sayd. Item I geve & bequeth to John Death my elder sonne fyve
marke to be payd in ij yeares that is fyve nobles w(i)t(h) in one yeare after my decesse & fyve nobles that
? twelmonth Item I geve & bequeth to the sonne of John my sonne one chist & a pewter dish
the best he cane chose & a candell plate Item I geve & bequeth unto Thomas my sonne fivve
marke to be payd unto him in ij yeares after his brother John be fully contented & payd that is
fyve nobles yearely in same(?) order as his brothers payment is Item I geve ^ unto ^ him one brasse pot
the greatest pot hoces one trundell bed a chist and a pewter dish Item I geve to Jone my
daughter xls** to be payd unto here ij yeares after Thomas be payd Item I geve unto Alice
* you would expect this to say 'by the grace of god queen of...', but it's pretty blurry
I think it says 'by the grace queen of...' and the clerk has missed out the word 'god'.
** tricky to see the letters for this amount.
1576 was the 18th year of Queen Elizabeth's reign.
pot hoces = pot hooks. I've seen these a lot in inventories.
-
Thanks, goldie61, that's great. Following is Snippet 2. I hope that I have an overlap. Would appreciate transcription of it at anyone's convenience. Again, thanks n advance. francoso
-
Last line of clip 1 has an '&' at the end
............. Alice &
Susan iiij li to be payd to them in ij yeares after Jone be paid that is xx s to eyther of them yerly
Working on it!
-
Very difficult to see the letters in the interline between lines 4 & 5, and the insertion in line 6.
Hopefully somebody else can see it, and pick up a few missing words.
............. Alice &
Susan iiij li to be payd to them in ij yeares after Jone be paid that is xx s to eyther of them yerly
Item I geve to them my littell house during the tyme that they shall kepe them unmaryed
if so be that they shall stand in ned of housrome or if not I will that stebine (?) shall have the use of it
Item I geve & bequeth unto Caterin my daughtter five marke to be payd unto hire at
->> ? hire a chaffindish ? mor?er
age of xxij yeares Item ^ I geve & bequeth unto Pernell my daughter xxs to be payd to
hir at the age of xxij yeares and ^ ?? ^ marter Item I geve unto Roger Rofi my sonne in lawe
ok? planke Item I geve unto Giles(?) Stebman my halfe bushell & my fanne Item I geve
unto Anne Bullocke my god daughter iijs iiijd to be payd to hire at the age of xxij yeres Item I
geve to Margaret Percival (?) hir house rome during hir naturall lyfe Item I geve & bequeth
to all my god chilerne xijd a pese Item I geve unto George Death my god sonne one spit Item
I geve to Ambrose Death a dripinpan with the thron Item I geve & bequeth unto John Death
the younger of my sonnes my mention house which I now dwell in & all my land to hym &
his heires for ever Item I geve him a q? & a bedsted & a platter Item I geve
him all my thaching towls & halfe of the rest of my other towls & the other halfe I geve
unto Thomas my sonne except one byll which I geve unto my wife Item I geve to the sayd
John my grenestone one cheyer a saulting trought one trommell ij saces & the staull(?) & a hayer
Item I geve & bequeth unto Elyzabeth my wife all all the rest of my houssold stufe
not geven & bequethed Item I geve hir hir dwelling as hir chamber & hir commit(?)
housrome = house room
Oken plank?
grenestone = grindstone?
cheyer = chair
saces = sacks
saulting trough = salting trough
byll = bill hook?
-
A couple of suggestions to add to goldie's work on the first snippet:
I'm fairly sure the missing word in the phrase about the five nobles is: time
That is, the second payment is to made on the anniversary of the first.
In the following line it's a: candell sticke
I think the bequest following the trundell bed is a chier rather than a chist.
-
A few suggestions for goldie's work on the second snippet:
I agree with stebine in line 3.
This could be the same name as appears lower down: Giles Stebinne
I don't see an a in the second instance of the name.
I agree that the second item in the interlined phrase on line 5 is morter.
Not sure what precedes that word - possibly & a
It's probably an: okine plancke
I don't think it's Percival, because the distinctive r isn't in the word. Perhaps Penniall/Peimiall or similar?
...dripinpan with ye yron...
The bequest to John is: a querne
I suspect the last word of the extract might prove to be coming (as in coming & going).
-
Thank you goldie61 and hd86. Many names mentioned there for me to follow up. The 3rd and last Clip is as follows and, again, your help would be appreciated, including the script in the bottom right hand corner, if relevant to this Will. Regards, francoso
-
First half:
...& going to ye fir & to Do such busynes as she have shall have [sic] to doe during the time yt
she shall kep hir a wedow & if she shall forten to marry the(n) to depert p(re)sently Item I
will yt she shall have ye halfe of ye frut in ye orchyeard during hir widdowod Iten
I will yt she shall have a nobell a yeare during this eight yeare Item I geve my
sayd wife my horse Item I geve the noble which Roger underwod oweth me to fouer
pore me(n) that is to tou of alphetome that is Georg Shepperd & ffolchard & ij of
Shimpling that is to Spilma(n) & Thomas [Grene?] Item I geve & bequeth unto...
In the first line:
fir = fire
EDITED:
I have reviewed the name originally in [] and decided it is: ffolchard
The text has been changed above.
ALSO:
orisynes is wrong. The word must be: busynes = business
The text has been changed above.
-
Second half:
...John Death ye younger of my sonnes all my tember & planckes which I have both at
home & in the parke and all my ladders save one littell ladder which I geve to my wife
& I make & ordayne John Death the younger my sole executor & I make & ordayn
Stephe(n) Bema(n) my sup(ro)viser & I geve him for his paynes her in taken a hachit thes
legaces shalbe payd at my mentio(n) house being lawfully demanded In witnes yt
this is my last will & testament I have put to my hand & sealle thes be my witnesses
Randolph Lyster Clearke Stephen Bema(n) & Thomas [Tooe?] w(i)t(h) others
-
Again, hd86, thank you for your time and knowledge. Just a couple of queries or clarifications:
1) it seems Laurence had a son John (the elder) who had a son John Laurence's grandson, and also Laurence had another son John (the younger) who became his executor. Is this correct ? I have read elsewhere that two offspring sometimes had the same first name.
2) In Reply No. 8, 2nd line, what is the meaning of "forten" ? I tried looking it up but no reference to it.
3) In Reply No. 8, 4th line, to what does the "eight years" refer ? Is this definitely "eight" as I don't see any other mention of it in the Will ?
Regards, francoso
-
On further looking, would "forten" be "fortunate"; and "eight" refer to the 4 x 2 year periods between payments to the named beneficiaries: John, Thomas, Jone and Alice/Susan ?
francoso
-
1) it seems Laurence had a son John (the elder) who had a son John Laurence's grandson, and also Laurence had another son John (the younger) who became his executor. Is this correct ? I have read elsewhere that two offspring sometimes had the same first name.
I have checked through the original.
He has John Death my elder sonne, mentioned in Snippet #1.
He has John Death ye younger of my sonnes, mentioned in Snippet #2 & #3. This John should be the one made executor.
The original wording concerning the possible grandson is this:
...Item I geve & bequeth to ye sonne John my sonne one chist & a peulter dish...
There's no of. This is ambiguous - has an of been omitted or is it just a clumsy way of referring to the son John (which from context would be the elder John)?
So there may or may not be a grandson. Reading the whole passage - including the best he cane chose - I would lean towards there not being a grandson, because it implies the beneficiary is old enough to choose the best.
2) In Reply No. 8, 2nd line, what is the meaning of "forten" ? I tried looking it up but no reference to it.
forten = fortune.
It's a standard phrase: fortune to die / fortune to marry
3) In Reply No. 8, 4th line, to what does the "eight years" refer ? Is this definitely "eight" as I don't see any other mention of it in the Will ?
It's almost certainly eight. The e and the r are similarly formed, but I'm 99.99% certain it's eight.
The meaning is probably as you have said in your Reply #11.
-
Thanks again, hd86. That clarifies my queries. Now to trace the named beneficiaries.
Regards, francoso
-
Was there anything of interest in the script at the bottom RHS of the Will regarding Probate ? Perhaps it is in Latin ? Anyone able to translate/transcribe ? Thanks on advance.
francoso
-
Proved at Bury before Master John De...[?], Doctor of Laws, commissary and designated official, on 5 November 1576, by the oath of the executor. The inventory was examined, total 4 pounds 4[?] shillings [could be 3 shillings]
-
Regarding the issue of a potential grandson, I have revised my reading of the passage as follows:
...Item I geve & bequeth to ye same John my sonne one chist & a peulter dish...
The vertical line of the a is quite a distance from the round part, making it look like _onn_ more than _am_.
However, if you look at manner on line 5 of #1, the a is formed in the same way.
So there's definitely no grandson.
ADDED:
Same with after in the last line of #1.
-
Thank you Bookbox and hd86 for clearing up those queries. Much obliged. francoso
-
I wonder if sks would have another go at transcribing the lines (particularly the insertion above "22 years") below, starting with "Item I give and bequeath unto Caterin my daughter five marks ... ). Maybe fresh eyes can pick out the meaning.
Thanks in advance and apologies if I'm being pedantic but I think this part could be of particular importance. Regards, francoso
-
My reading, for what it’s worth, is very similar to that given above (replies 4 & 6).
Item I geve & bequeth unto Caterin my Daughtter five marke to be payd unto hire at ye
age of xxij yeares Item ^I geve hire a chaffindish & a morter^ I geve & bequeth unto Pernell my Daughter xxs to be payd to
hir at ye age of xxij yeares and a morter ...
There is an interlineation above the last word (morter), but I can’t read it or understand where it should be inserted.
-
Thanks for the fresh eyes, Bookbox. I had never heard of a chaffin dish and mortar (as in pestle and mortar I presume) and have look that up. Kind regards, francoso
-
From as social history perspective, would sks please transcribe the attached Inventoried Goods of Laurence Death attached to his Will in 1576. Thanks in advance and kind regards. francoso
-
I've made a start francoso, though it's a pretty hazy image. Not good to zoom in, as it becomes even more hazy.
Any chance of a bigger file size? - you are allowed up to 500 kb, and this is under 200.
Possibly better in two halves.
'Interesting' spelling doesn't help either! ;)
The inventarie Indented of all such goodes
and catell which weare xx Lawrence Deathes xx
late while he [lived?] of Shimplinge in the coyn
tie of Suff prysed By William Pansy
John Sawe
Imprimis in the haull a tabell a forme &
iij chayres iij s iiij d
Item in the chamber ij flack bedes w(i)t(h)
all that belonge them & iij huches xxs
Item in the kithin one brasse pote
ij posknetes(?) ij skeletes a frine pann
ij spetes a [ ] a drepinpanne
iij s [ ] ij pewtere dishes
& a chaffin dishe & a morter xxs
Item ij tubes a kneding troughe
ij ce?teres a halfe busshell a fanne vjs
a s[ ] ij stoles & a saulting troughe viijd
Item in the berne a payere of
qwerenes & the haye in the bearne vs
Item his worckinge toles xs
Item in the yeard a grenestone iijs
ij ladders a plancke & a bedsted iiijd
Item his horse xiij s iiij d
Item his gesse (?) ij s iiijd
Sum(me) totalis iiij li iiij s
'flack bed' will be flock
'skeletes' will be skillets
'spetes' will be spits
'tubes' will be tubs
'stoles' probably stools
-
A few suggestions to add to goldie's work:
In the intro:
countie [The s from the name below makes it look like a y]
John Game [Compare the capital to Shimplinge & Suff.]
In the list:
postnetes [= possinet = a type of skillet]
The thing after the spetes is a nander, but I don't know the meaning.
Next line: iij sma(ll) cetteles vij pewtere dishes...
In the line after the tubes it is cellers or celters.
Next line: a sive [= sieve]
...& yt haye in ye bearne
Agree with gesse
-
A bit hard to see, but do you think it could be 'viij pewter dishes' HD?
-
A bit hard to see, but do you think it could be 'viij pewter dishes' HD?
Yes - I noticed that & changed my text just after posting.
ADDED:
Sorry goldie, you are saying 8 dishes. Give me a moment.
ADDED 2:
In my opinion it's 7 (vij) dishes, but it's not clear.
-
Sorry, Decipherers for the poor quality of the last posting. I have now split into three Clips and will post each separately. Thanks for you patience. francoso
-
Inventory Clip 2. francoso
-
Now split into 4 Clips due to 500kb limit. This is Clip 3. francoso
-
And, finally, Clip 4. Thanks again in advance. francoso
-
Gosh! That would have been a lot easier! :)
I think it's pretty much covered before - just a couple of things -
Where I had 'lived' as a possibility in the opening paragraph, I can now see it is that.
The 2 troughs mentioned would seem to have a 't' on the end instead of an 'e' - making them read
'trought' - just for accuracy.
-
Thanks goldie61, that was quick; same time zone ? Yes, I am learning slowly and will get denser clips in the future. Regards, francoso
-
Changes made in light of new images:
Cellers
...& ye haye in ye bearne