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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: rogerb on Monday 11 March 19 13:19 GMT (UK)

Title: Extinct surnames
Post by: rogerb on Monday 11 March 19 13:19 GMT (UK)
I was recently researching the Brownsford surname in the Somerset region from the 1700s and I noticed that that name doesn't seem to exist anymore.  In fact there is only one entry on FreeBMD of that name - and that was a death in 1869.

I suppose it had never occurred to me that this could happen.

Is it more common than I imagine?
Title: Re: Extinct surnames
Post by: Mart 'n' Al on Monday 11 March 19 13:47 GMT (UK)
Have you looked at Ireland? There is a village of that name in County Kilkenny. There might be people with that name in the area.

Martin
Title: Re: Extinct surnames
Post by: Sandy_W on Monday 11 March 19 15:15 GMT (UK)
I've been helping a friend with her family history and she has the name Linningdine in her tree. The last Linningdine seems to have died in 1888, there are no others on freebmd after that.
Title: Re: Extinct surnames
Post by: [Ray] on Monday 11 March 19 16:30 GMT (UK)


John Linningdine
Year:1890
County or Borough:Hackney
Ward or Division/Constituency:Hoxton
Street address:2 Woods buildings
Title: Re: Extinct surnames
Post by: LizzieL on Monday 11 March 19 16:41 GMT (UK)
Maybe some that appear extinct have changed their spelling slightly. It may happen a few generations before the person who appears to be the last of his or her line
Title: Re: Extinct surnames
Post by: BenRalph on Monday 11 March 19 17:38 GMT (UK)
Furrington is a name that's no longer around that I have in my tree. It's different to the Farrington surname which was around at the same time as mine. My 3x great grandma was Gertrude Elizabeth Furrington.
Title: Re: Extinct surnames
Post by: Raybistre on Monday 11 March 19 20:04 GMT (UK)
Strongintharm a very descriptive surname occurred in Cheshire way back. Doesn't seem to exist in England and Wales now. Maybe people shortened the name to Strong or maybe altered it to Armstrong.
Ray
Title: Re: Extinct surnames
Post by: Greensleeves on Monday 11 March 19 20:21 GMT (UK)
My family name of Sedgwick first appears in records as Siggiswycke, and then undergoes various transmogrifications: Sidgwick - Shedwick - Cedric - Siggsworth - Sidgwick until it finally settles down to Sedgwick as a result of a mistranscription in the 1901 census.
Title: Re: Extinct surnames
Post by: conahy calling on Monday 11 March 19 20:36 GMT (UK)
re Brownsford Co Kilkenny

Looking at Census of Ireland 1911, there is no one of that name in that townsland.

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search/
Title: Re: Extinct surnames
Post by: JohninSussex on Monday 11 March 19 21:25 GMT (UK)
Quote from: Greensleeves on Monday 11 March 19 20:21 GMT (UK)
My family name of Sedgwick first appears in records as Siggiswycke, and then undergoes various transmogrifications: Sidgwick - Shedwick - Cedric - Siggsworth - Sidgwick until it finally settles down to Sedgwick as a result of a mistranscription in the 1901 census.

That's not how it works though, is it?  If the family calls itself Sedgwick today, and did so in 1901, that means they changed the name earlier than that date.  It isn't the census entry that prompted the change in name, it is the change that prompted the census entry.  After all, no-one in the family saw that census form, whether the original or the transcription, for close to 100 years after it was filled in.  It could even be that voters' lists or similar could help pinpoint a point in time where that particular family changed the spelling and/or pronunciation.

You might remember John Major, whose brother was known as Terry Major-Ball.  Or boxer Chris Eubank, whose other family members use the spelling Eubanks.  So the process still goes on.

But none of that relates to surnames becoming extinct.
Title: Re: Extinct surnames
Post by: Rena on Monday 11 March 19 23:33 GMT (UK)
The subject is "Extinct surnames" and I haven't come across any person with the surname "Crumbewell" since the last recorded marriage on FS in the 1800s.

That spelling started to disappear when the first "Cromwell" was recorded.
Title: Re: Extinct surnames
Post by: Top-of-the-hill on Monday 11 March 19 23:41 GMT (UK)
   Reply 6 - The name Strongi(n)tharm without the n is still around, just about. I remember someone of that name in Canterbury years ago, and there are recent births recorded.
Title: Re: Extinct surnames
Post by: Maiden Stone on Tuesday 12 March 19 00:33 GMT (UK)
Quote from: Top-of-the-hill on Monday 11 March 19 23:41 GMT (UK)
   Reply 6 - The name Strongi(n)tharm without the n is still around, just about. I remember someone of that name in Canterbury years ago, and there are recent births recorded.
A northerner would pronounce it strong i' th' arm.
Is there a list of extinct surnames?
Title: Re: Extinct surnames
Post by: CarolA3 on Tuesday 12 March 19 09:53 GMT (UK)
Quote from: Greensleeves on Monday 11 March 19 20:21 GMT (UK)
My family name of Sedgwick first appears in records as Siggiswycke, and then undergoes various transmogrifications: Sidgwick - Shedwick - Cedric - Siggsworth - Sidgwick until it finally settles down to Sedgwick as a result of a mistranscription in the 1901 census.

The Sedgwick insurance broking firm was founded in England in the 19th century I believe - now part of something bigger.  Any connection with your family?

Carol
Title: Re: Extinct surnames
Post by: Andrew Tarr on Tuesday 12 March 19 09:58 GMT (UK)
I don't think it's a case of a name becoming 'extinct' as such - just that particular spelling variant has died out or become unfashionable.  While most given names became standardised because many were taken from the Bible (printed, so clerics knew how to spell them), most surname spellings were made up by the recorders as they heard them.  Needless to say, allowing for regional accents, there were many variants until those spellings also settled down as literacy spread, and different clerics standardised them in their own way.

There are still Wolstenholmes around, but some have become Woosnam; also Birkenshaws including the MP Brokenshire.  But the true 'original' spellings would have been early English, perhaps Chaucerian.

The name Haworth has been mentioned in a parallel thread.  In one of the parishes I have transcribed, both Haworth and Howarth appear concurrently.  I don't know whether that indicates different pronunciations, or uncertainty by the recorder.
Title: Re: Extinct surnames
Post by: Top-of-the-hill on Tuesday 12 March 19 10:54 GMT (UK)
  My gr grandmother's name was Coltham, and as I started working back through her ancestors, I came across an entry "Codham". I thought this was a very understandable mishearing, but it turned out to be the original - Codham/Coddam/Coddom etc. Around 1820 Codham variants almost disappear, and Coltham becomes the norm. It is a very local name - I think they all got together and changed it!
Title: Re: Extinct surnames
Post by: josey on Tuesday 12 March 19 12:07 GMT (UK)
To me it does seem possible that surnames can become extinct if a man who is the last of his name line only has daughters, then the name dies out [if daughters have taken husband's surname]. As I understand it, also just as maternal DNA lines can die out if a woman in a family of otherwise sons only has sons. My mother's maiden name, once part of a large family, now has only 2 males bearing the name as grandchildren from her brothers. Her sister did not have a daughter, & ; I only had sons; my sister did not have children, so our mother's maternal DNA has died out.

I could be wrong here - not unknown... ;)
Title: Re: Extinct surnames
Post by: Top-of-the-hill on Tuesday 12 March 19 12:44 GMT (UK)
  One of my family names is probably about to die out in our branch, because of a surfeit of daughters for the last few generations.
Title: Re: Extinct surnames
Post by: Andrew Tarr on Tuesday 12 March 19 13:50 GMT (UK)
Quote from: Top-of-the-hill on Tuesday 12 March 19 10:54 GMT (UK)
Around 1820 Codham variants almost disappear, and Coltham becomes the norm. It is a very local name - I think they all got together and changed it!

If the family lived in a parish for maybe several generations it seems possible to me that the rector or vicar was responsible.  I have worked through registers where the same man was in charge for over 50 years, so he would have settled on his own preferred spelling for families he knew well - probably several strains of them.  In the Victorian period, when more of them had to write their names, that would be the version they probably used.
Title: Re: Extinct surnames
Post by: Mike in Cumbria on Tuesday 12 March 19 14:13 GMT (UK)
You don't hear of many Hitlers, these days.
Title: Re: Extinct surnames
Post by: BenRalph on Tuesday 12 March 19 15:09 GMT (UK)
Quote from: Mike in Cumbria on Tuesday 12 March 19 14:13 GMT (UK)
You don't hear of many Hitlers, these days.
I believe Hitler's nephew gave his son the middle name Adolf. I think they moved to America. Wasn't his sister in law from Ireland?
Title: Re: Extinct surnames
Post by: barryd on Tuesday 12 March 19 15:24 GMT (UK)
1911 births is the last year the Hitler name was registered in England/Wales for a living person. Postems are included to give relationship to the Austrian one. Free BMD.
Title: Re: Extinct surnames
Post by: Andrew Tarr on Tuesday 12 March 19 17:40 GMT (UK)
Quote from: Mike in Cumbria on Tuesday 12 March 19 14:13 GMT (UK)
You don't hear of many Hitlers, these days.

It wasn't just the Hitlers.  Many German families who had settled in England before WW1 found it useful to Anglicise their surnames then.  A school friend's mother had been a Carr, converted from Karle, I believe.  And there were many others.
Title: Re: Extinct surnames
Post by: Mike in Cumbria on Tuesday 12 March 19 17:58 GMT (UK)
Quote from: Andrew Tarr on Tuesday 12 March 19 17:40 GMT (UK)
Quote from: Mike in Cumbria on Tuesday 12 March 19 14:13 GMT (UK)
You don't hear of many Hitlers, these days.

It wasn't just the Hitlers.  Many German families who had settled in England before WW1 found it useful to Anglicise their surnames then.  A school friend's mother had been a Carr, converted from Karle, I believe.  And there were many others.

Including the Battenburgs and the Saxe-Coburg Gothas. Whatever happened to them?
Title: Re: Extinct surnames
Post by: Andrew Tarr on Tuesday 12 March 19 18:08 GMT (UK)
Quote from: Mike in Cumbria on Tuesday 12 March 19 17:58 GMT (UK)
Including the Battenburgs and the Saxe-Coburg Gothas. Whatever happened to them?

Well yes, but as those were titles I think that is a bit different.  And they were rather noticeable, weren't they?