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General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: palekeren on Thursday 14 March 19 06:10 GMT (UK)
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Hello everyone. I'm hoping I might find someone who might be able to explain a situation for me. In June 1891 my ggrandfather enlisted in the British Army East Surrey Division. In November 1891 he enlisted in the Royal Marines Light Infantry Portsmouth Division. I have the records to verify this. After he left the Marines in 1897 he lived under a false name with his family for the next 13 years. He then came to Australia separately from his family and under the assumed name while his family used their proper name. My assumption from all this is that he deserted the Army to join the Marines and I assume the last place the Army might have looked for him would have been another of the military services. Would this be a possibility or could he have transferred from the Army to the Marines. Personally I doubt this. If someone could offer a reasonable explanation for all this I would be very grateful and it would explain a family mystery. Cheers Keren
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Welcome to Rootschat.
I think I am right in saying, if he had transferred his records would show that, if he enlisted in the RMLI it looks as if he was either discharged from the Army for some reason (possibly considered unsuitable) or he deserted. Was previous military service declared on his enlistment to the RMLI?
In researching for a friend I found something similar. Her father-in-law enlisted in the RMLI and deserted after two years, six months later he enlisted in the Army, denying any previous military service and giving a different birth date. He also later lived under an assumed name.
There are plenty of instances where men have deserted, or been discharged from a Regiment for some reason, then managed to enlist in another unit and get away with it. Others have been found out and paid the consequences.
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I have the records to verify this.
Are you referring to his RMLI records or his East Surrey Regiment (not division) records. If you have the latter, do they say anything about his discharge? Perhaps you'd like to give his name and any other details you have (such as date/place of birth, full names, RMLI number) in case there is something else to be found.
MaxD
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I have someone who enlisted in the Royal Engineers in 1885, deserted in Feb 1888 then enlisted in Royal Navy in June 1888. He deserted the Navy in Oct 1894 and 8 days later rejoined his army unit. He was imprisoned for 42 days with hard labour for desertion. He was finally discharged in 1913 with a pension for 21 years service. (18 pence per day for life).
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A plausible scenario is that he joined one of the two militia battalions of the East Surreys, the part timers not the regular army. That was a common route into regular service. The militia battalions were both headquartered at Kingston.
MaxD
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Hi again. His name was Harry Richard Crowhurst b. Jan 10 in Carshalton, Surrey. I have enlistment in Army and a record for the Royal Marines and I've posted them. There is evidence of some writing on the Marines record but I can't read it. His Army No. was 5872 and the Marines No. was 6011. If you can make more of them I'd be very grateful.
Cheers
Keren
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As I suspected his first enlistment was in the 3rd (Militia) Battalion East Surreys on 9 Jun 1891 and he served (part time while carrying on civilian life) until 9 Nov 1891. He then, presumably having decided he wanted to be a Royal Marine, joined the RMLI starting on 10 November 1891. No desertion, no "transfer" as such. A common occurrence for men to start in the part time militia and then go on to the regular forces.
It is all on the third page of his militia record. Columns 2 - 5 were all written at time of his enlistment in Jun 91, the script is the same. 3 which was the original posting to the 3rd Battalion, "Posted", his rank comes next (Private) and the first date.
The clerks have then written below in the correct way RML Infantry indicating that is where he went and entered the date 9 Nov 91 in the other date column. That way of recording his movement onwards is totally standard.
The only bit the clerks got wrong is that they entered RMLI in the first column which has perhaps confused things, it should have said East Surreys but it has clearly been added in November 91 at the same time as the other RMLI entry.
Hope that clarifies his record?
maxD
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Hello MaxD. Thanks for all that which explains a few things. One person I spoke to read it that when his ship went to China in 1897 it said RUN PORTSMOUTH and that he wasn't on board the ship when it left. That and the name change make me think that he did desert because didn't they have to sign up for 12 years? I've only found one page of his records. Are there another two? Cheers Keren
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"Run Portsmouth" means that he deserted from the Royal Marines in Portsmouth.
I've only found one page of his records. Are there another two?
Yes there are 3 pages in that army file. Use the arrows at the side to tab from page to page.
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Many thanks to all for all your assistance in solving this event in my family history.
Cheers
Keren