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Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: blacksmithy on Saturday 23 March 19 09:02 GMT (UK)
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Hi
thank you for reading this post and offering any insights.
I am researching John Palmer born Portsmouth approx. 1840 to Grace Spinner and George Palmer.
I am looking for information regarding his departure and arrival in New Zealand.
His marriage certificate to Ellen/Helen Louisa Kilsby occurs in Victoria Australia and states he is a usual resident of Hokitika New Zealand. This means he must have come to NZ and travelled to Australia. We do not know if he knew Ellen/Helen through some previous event or how long he stayed in Australia for. John and Ellen/Helen came to NZ and had 3 children. Sadly Helen died in child birth. John later went on to marry and we have a good knowledge of this part of his life.
John may have left England with a possible brother - ?Henry.
Again thank you in advance for your thoughts.
Pauline
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You have this marriage certificate -
VIC BDM marriage
KILSBY Helen Louisa marr. PALMER John 212 / 1877
Can you please list all the information on this certificate.
G(eneral) R(egister) O(ffice) births with mothers maiden surname SPINNER
PALMER, George 1839 MarQ Portsea Island Union Vol 07 / page 108
PALMER, Edwin 1841 JunQ Portsea Island Union Vol 07 / page 111
PALMER, James 1841 DecQ Portsea Island Union Vol 07 / page 114
PALMER, John 1840 MarQ Portsea Island Union VOL 07 / page 114
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Possibly your........big..... family?
G(eneral) R(egister) O(ffice) births with mothers maiden surname SPINNER
PALMER Henry 1843 MarQ Portsea Island Union Vol 07 / page 117
PALMER, James 1844 MarQ Portsea Island Union Vol 07 / page 134
PALMER, Sarah Jane 1845 MarQ Portsea Island Union Vol 07 / page 124
PALMER, William 1845 DecQ Portsea Island Union Vol 07 / page 124
PALMER, Edwin Cornelius 1846 DecQ Portsea Island Union Vol 07 / page 128
PALMER, Robert 1847 SepQ Portsea Island Union Vol 07 / page 120
PALMER, Alfred 1849 MarQ Portsea Island Union Vol 07 / page 144
Census 1851 at Conway Row Portsea Hampshire
PALMER George 27 ..37? grocer?
PALMER Grace 35y
PALMER George 12y
PALMER Edwin 10y
PALMER William 9y
PALMER James 5y
PALMER John 4y
PALMER Robert 3y
PALMER Alfred 2y
PALMER Martha sister 20 yrs servant all born Portsea
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Something is off with that 1851 Census;
I have on Anc;
George Palmer 37
Grace Palmer 35
George Palmer 12
John Palmer 4
Edwin Palmer 10
Willm Palmer 9
James Palmer 5
Probert Palmer 3
Alfred Palmer 2
Martha Palmer 20
The way it is ordered it would appear John is older than 4.
The image has lines through it so is hard to read.
So likely John is 11.
John may be with his Grandparents in 1841;
James Palmer 55 Sawyer
Ann Palmer 55
Jane Palmer 19
John Palmer 14
MARTHA Palmer 12****
JOHN Palmer 1********
Martha Cutter 20
Mary Higwell 30
Name: Je... George Palmer
Gender: Male
Baptism Date: 11 Jul 1813
Baptism Place: St. Mary's, Portsea, Hampshire, England
Father: James Palmer
Mother: Ann Palmer
Back to your original question;
I found these 2 arrivals on the Auckland Libraries site
John PALMER;
Vessel
Avalanche
Date of arrival
1860-05-07
(down as John J Palmer so may not be yours)
Vessel
Portland
Date of arrival
1869-04-26
Anc has Victorian outward passenger list but there are a lot of John or J Palmer.
From his NZ Death Cert how long does it say he was in NZ?
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Hi
thanks for your research. Yes the age of John did confuse me when he turned out to be 4yrs old.
Johns marriage to Helen Louisa Kilsby:
Married Jan 16th 1877 at St Paul's Sandhurst Victoria Aust. John Palmer Bachelor born Portsmouth England, occ Miner, age 35 present residence Sandhurst, usual- Hokitika NZ, Names of parenst George Palmer (Grocer) and Grace Spinner.
Helen Lousia Kilsby, Spinser, Birthplace Castlemain Victoria, no occupation, age 21, present Sandhurst, parents William Kilsby (Farmer), Helen Barnes.
Church of England
Witness' are possibly Mr Kilsby and Sarah Wallis- hard to read.
Are waiting for death cert.
thanks again, I still struggle to access shipping records - so a work in progress for me.
Pauline
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Unclaimed letters @ Greymouth PO [1867]- Henry Palmer….
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/GRA18671017.2.20.5?query=hy%20palmer&start_date=01-01-1867&end_date=31-12-1867&snippet=true&title=IT,KUMAT,LTCBG,WCT,WEST,GEST,CHARG,GRA
Minniehaha.
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G(eneral) R(egister) O(ffice) births with mothers maiden surname SPINNER
PALMER, Mary Ann MarQ 1848 Portsea Island Union Vol 07 / Page 129
PALMER, Alice Grace SepQ 1850 Portsea Island Union Vol 07 / Page 86
PALMER, Emily JunQ 1850 Portsea Island Union Vol 07 / Page 134
PALMER, Emily SepQ 1851 Portsea Island Union Vol 07 / Page 130
PALMER, Louisa Grace DecQ 1855 Portsea Island Union Vol 02B / Page 305
PALMER, Alice Grace SepQ 1857 Portsea Island Union Vol 02B / Page 341
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Census 1861 at 2 Conway Street Portsea Hampshire
PALMER George 47y grocer and cow keeper
PALMER Grace 44y
PALMER George 22y butchers app.
PALMER James 17y bakers app.
PALMER William 15y shop boy
PALMER Robert 13y scholar
PALMER Alfred 11y
PALMER Amelia 10y
PALMER Eliza 8y
PALMER Louisa 6y
PALMER Henry 2y all born Portsea
SPINNER Grace 76y mother in law, widow b. Middlesex London
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Hi,
Not sure if you are looking at the KILSBY family to ascertain their origins and check for any previuos connection to John PALMER.
For your interest, The births to the couple William KILSBY and wife Helen nee BARNES, began in Vic from 1852.And prior to that he had been in South Australia.
This obituary gives a good little biography . A bit vague about relatives though.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/227846768
His wife died in 1897. He lived at Water Street, Bendigo as in the obit above
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/89461600
Helen KILSBY
Age 71
Death Place Bendigo,
Father Barnes Wm
Year 1897
Reg 11462
ADDING
This is the arrival in South Aust. of one William KILSBY.
KILSBY / KELSBY William arrived in SA 1850-03-24 aboard Sea Queen from London 1849-12-12 via Plymouth
Sue
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Let us know what his Death Cert contains please :)
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Something is off with that 1851 Census;
I have on Anc;
George Palmer 37
Grace Palmer 35
George Palmer 12
John Palmer 4
Edwin Palmer 10
Willm Palmer 9
James Palmer 5
Probert Palmer 3
Alfred Palmer 2
Martha Palmer 20
The way it is ordered it would appear John is older than 4.
The image has lines through it so is hard to read.
So likely John is 11.
John may be with his Grandparents in 1841;
James Palmer 55 Sawyer
Ann Palmer 55
Jane Palmer 19
John Palmer 14
MARTHA Palmer 12****
JOHN Palmer 1********
Martha Cutter 20
Mary Higwell 30
Name: Je... George Palmer
Gender: Male
Baptism Date: 11 Jul 1813
Baptism Place: St. Mary's, Portsea, Hampshire, England
Father: James Palmer
Mother: Ann Palmer
Trish I agree with you it definitely looks as if John Palmer's age should read 11 and not 4
PALMER, JOHN mn SPINNER
1840 M Quarter in PORTSEA ISLAND UNION Volume 07 Page 114
I also noted that
George PALMER 25 Shopkeeper, Grace 25 , George 2, Edwin 3 mths &
Eliza SPINNER 15 F.S.
are on the same 1841 census as James & Ann Palmer
address Conway Row HO107; Piece: 413 Portsea Town; Hampshire Folio: 49; Page: 14
George PALMER mn SPINNER
1839 M Quarter in PORTSEA ISLAND UNION Volume 07 Page 108
Edwin PALMER mn SPINNER
1841 J Quarter in PORTSEA ISLAND UNION Volume 07 Page 111
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Hi
many thanks for your ongoing discoveries and apologies my slow thanks - the weekend was spent writing up the family members we were sure of. Following the posting on Trove I then went to paperspast (not sure why I skipped this step originally) and there a many interesting articles about John Palmer, his life in Kumara on the West Coast, articles on his daughters weddings and also an article on his death.
Mystery still surrounds his arrival in NZ and the reasons for his sojourn to Australia coming home with a wife.
Perhaps this will be locked away forever.
Again thanks for your information which will form part of our family reunion in May.
Pauline