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Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: edesearch on Wednesday 17 April 19 10:04 BST (UK)
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Hi,
I’m having trouble obtaining info on George Sinclair and Peti Matiaha. Peti was born around 1819 and married George in 1843. I believe they are the parents of Elizabeth Peti Sinclair who married Abel Dickinson in Opua, Bay of islands. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
cheers
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Hello.
Just tried looking up any records that you might find in the Maori Land Court, but unfortunately the Justice Dept page is down for maintenance tonight.
There is a chance the 'Maori Land On Line' may have some info.
Alan.
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Cheers Alan,
I hadn't thought of that. I'll check it out tomorrow.
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Have you looked at the Maori Births, Deaths and Marriages microfiche?
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I have searched Births, Deaths, and Marriages but have had no luck.
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This may be your man?
Cemetery Record
Surname : SINCLAIR Given Names : GEORGE
Age : Sex : Male Date Of Birth :
Occupation :
Religion :
Native Of :
Notes : C/SLAB, C/SURROUND, HEADSTONE
Cemetery Details
Cemetery : RUSSELL CEMETERY
Division : PUBLIC LAWN
Block : B
Row :
Plot : 36
Notes : C/SLAB, C/SURROUND, HEADSTONE
Burial Details
Date Of Death : Place of Death :
Funeral Date Funeral Time
Burial or Ashes : Burial
Funeral Director : UNKNOWN
If so, might there be some clues on the headstone?
Minniehaha.
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Headstone probably not a help.
Here is a photograph with inscription.....
https://billiongraves.com/grave/George-Sinclair/17223158
Minniehaha.
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Do you have George's death?
These are the only registrations I could find that come within cooee....
1877/2943 Sinclair George 50YA
1875/1017 Sinclair George 75Y @ Dunedin. Edited
1897/6490 Sinclair George 69Y @ Dunedin. Edited
Minniehaha.
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Is this the marriage?
1863/3832 Betsy Van Arsdale Abel Dickinson
Minniehaha.
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Using NZ BDM index I am not seeing the ABEL - HUTCHINSON marriage. Where do you see it?
Where have you found the SINCLAIR - MATIAHA marriage?
Where do you see this name - Elizabeth Peti Sinclair?
Is this your family?
NZ BDM births
1864/7634 DICKINSON Eliza parents Elizabeth / Abel
1866/10732 DICKINSON William parents Elizabeth / Abel
1868/10951 DICKINSON Alonzo parents Elizabeth / Abel
1879/10441 DICKINSON Allen parents Elizabeth / Abel
1884/230 DICKINSON Francis parents Elizabeth / Abel
1885/4921 DICKINSON Eugene parents Elizabeth / Abel
1887/4531 DICKINSON Bertie parents Elizabeth / Abel
NZ BDM deaths
1914/9345 DICKINSON Abel 77Y
1981/37761 DICKINSON Eugene born 21 June 1885
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New Zealand 27 Nov 1930 p1
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/NZH19301127.2.2.3?
DICKINSON.—On November 21 at the residence of her daughter, Mrs. G. Toms, Opua, Elizabeth, relict of the late A. DICKINSON, Opua, Buy of Islands: in her 90th year.
Auckland 16 Oct 1937 p1
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/AS19371016.2.5?
DICKINSON.—At Iluka, Clarence River. New South Wales, Handford, fifth son of the late Mrs. A. Dickinson. Opua. and loved brother or Mrs. J. Ware, Thames.
NSW BDM death
22425/1937 DICKINSON William Handford parents Abel / Elizabeth @ Maclean
NZ BDM marriage
1882/2559 DICKINSON Eliza Jane marr. TOMS George
1891/3291 DICKINSON Grace marr. WARE James
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NZ DBM births
1881/1961 DICKENSON Claressa Dellia parents Elizabeth / Abel
1883/17342 DICKENSON George parents Elizabeth / Abel
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The only info I have been able to find regarding George and Peti are a few family trees that include them so I don’t know how accurate any of this may be. Unfortunately, I don’t know when George died however, I think I might have found some more of their children.
Elizabeth Peti Sinclair
1836-1930
Heeni Sinclair
1838-1918
Ruiha/Louisa Sinclair
1842-1912
Riripeti Sinclair
1844-unknown
also, yes Minniehaha, that is the marriage of George and Peti’s daughter. Betsy/Elizabeth was married to Issac Van Arsdale before she was married to Abel.
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Any of the births from 1875 on would include good information about the origins of parents Abel and Elizabeth.
You either accept what you are seeing on family trees........ or do your own research.
You need to see the printout for a birth.
Do you have any documentation for the BDM events in the lives of the people you are researching?
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I don't have anything from BDM concerning George and Peti. I have been trying to gather info on their daughter Elizabeth, but I didn't have her maiden name. Once I found out it might be Matiaha, I had a look at BDM but had no luck.
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Hello again.
With the arrival of keeping written records Maori started assigning two names to their children, especially if baptised. They also developed their own naming conventions, not unlike Scot's with their patronymic maming.
http://www.whakapapaclub.nz/information/maori-naming-conventions/
On that basis do you know of any family links with Waiariki or Rotiti ?
Alan.
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Further to reply #10, I think your best option at this point is to purchase the death registration printout for Elizabeth. Providing they were known by the person supplying the information, her parents names should be recorded.
https://www.bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/Home/
1930/6134 Dickinson Elizabeth 89Y
[In case you don't have it.......
1914/9345 Dickinson Abel 77Y]
Minniehaha.
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In this list of PAKEHA(EUROPEAN)/MAORI TRANSLITERATIONS
https://www.sooty.nz/Pakehamaori.html
The transliteration for Peti is Bessy or Betty which are both pet names for Elizabeth
Cheers Janette
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Thanks for the help everyone. I have just ordered the death certificate for Elizabeth posted by Minnehaha. I wasn't sure if that was actually hers as it states she was 89 years of age but I will have a look and see.
In response to Alan, I am not aware of any family links to Waiariki and Rotiti.
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Thanks for the help everyone. I have just ordered the death certificate for Elizabeth posted by Minnehaha. I wasn't sure if that was actually hers as it states she was 89 years of age but I will have a look and see.
See again, reply #10.......
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/NZH19301127.2.2.3?
[Elizabeth was in her 90th year therefore she was actually aged 89. If this is what you were querying?]
Minniehaha.
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From reply #10.....
"Auckland 16 Oct 1937 p1
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/AS19371016.2.5?
DICKINSON.—At Iluka, Clarence River. New South Wales, Handford, fifth son of the late Mrs. A. Dickinson. Opua. and loved brother or Mrs. J. Ware, Thames."
If you are interested:
The obituary of William Handford Dickinson [1937]
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/194423799?searchTerm=%22w.%20h.%20dickinson%22&searchLimits=exactPhrase=w.+h.+dickinson|||anyWords|||notWords|||requestHandler|||dateFrom|||dateTo|||l-advstate=New+South+Wales|||sortby
Minniehaha.
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It is what I was querying Minnehaha, I was expecting to see 90Y instead of 89Y. Thank you for the info regarding William, I know little about him.
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I notice that you have "ede" as part of your nom de plume. I came across the name of Ede in this newspaper snippet, Mrs. Abel Dickinson given as his next of kin.
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/NA19170912.2.7?query=ede%20dickinson&start_date=01-01-1914&end_date=31-12-1918&snippet=true
His WW1 file.....
https://www.archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=21000038&digital=yes
[Mrs. Abel Dickinson being his grandmother]
Minniehaha.
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Death of a daughter [Delia Clarissa] of Elizabeth & Abel Dickinson [1933]
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/NZH19330713.2.2.4?query=%20dickinson%20opua&page=5&start_date=01-01-1914&end_date=31-12-1950&snippet=true
Minniehaha.
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Abel Dickinson was born in the USA. Here is the Memorial to his Naturalisation:
https://www.archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=24861980&digital=yes
Minniehaha.
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Cheers Minnehaha,
I have seen the WW1 records before, but this is my first time seeing Abel's Naturalisation papers.
thanks again
Edesearch
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Do let us know if the death printout for Elizabeth solves the parentage problem.. :)
Minniehaha.
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Will do :)
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Hello again,
So I received Elizabeth’s death certificate but nothing new is provided. It only states that her father's surname was Sinclair, no first name is given, and her mother’s details have been left blank.
Nevertheless, I think I might have found a possible candidate for her mother. I was looking at Elizabeth’s second marriage certificate and noticed that the witnesses were listed as James and Jane Whitaker. Looking through papers past I stumbled across an article that notes the following, “He went up to Whitaker’s house, where Van Arsdale and his wife and two children also lived”, Van Arsdale’s wife, of course, being Elizabeth.
I then decided to look into the Whitakers a bit more and discovered that James Whitaker's wife was called Betty/Peti Hine Raria. I was struck by the similarity of her name and the names of Peti (Elizabeth) and her sisters Heni and Ruiha. Could it be that Betty Hine Raria is the mother of Peti and her two sisters?
Can someone help me either prove/disprove this possible relation?
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Correction
I believe Betty Whitaker's full name was Irihapeti Hineraria Whitaker (nee.Potatau)
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Kia ora,
I'm a new member. I live in New Zealand, in Northland. I saw some earlier threads on here after googling George Sinclair and Matiaha. I believe he may be my 4 x grandfather via his daughter Heeni (aka Jenny) Sinclair. So I registered here to make this post.
I say "he may be my 4 x grandfather" because I'm not 100% sure if this is the George Sinclair I'm looking for. It has to do with his wife, which many people on here refer to as Peti Matiaha.
In our family George's wife is known as Matire Matiaha. We understand George was born approximately 1810-1820 in Scotland and he made his way to NZ sometime in the mid-1830s. Because of her surname, we believe Matire is from Rangitane, a Maori iwi (tribe) from the Wairarapa region in the bottom of the North Island of NZ. We think she was born around 1820.
The story in our family is George and Matire met somewhere around Wairarapa and over a period of years they made their way north, eventually to the Bay of Islands, Northland. Along the way they had three daughters: Heeni (aka Jenny), Ruiha (aka Louise) and Irihapeti (aka Elizabeth, Iripeti and Peti).
It's possible people may be confusing George's wife Peti with their daughter Irihapeti. Because she was known by at least 4 different names.
Also, once they arrived in the Bay of Islands it appears something may have happened to George and Matire. Because the daughters are believed to have been taken into foster care by European missionaries from the Waimate Mission in the Bay of Islands. It's there where Heeni met my 3x grandfather Hare Napia.
They married as Christians and had a son named Arena Te Au Napia - my great-grandfather. He was named in honour of Hare's best friend, an American named Issac Vanasdalen ("Arena" is taken from "alen" in Issac's surname). Issac married Heeni's sister, Irihapeti. They had two children, Edward and Hemo. Sadly, Issac was murdered by an ex-Colonial soldier on Christmas Day, 1862. Irihapeti remarried a gentleman named Abel Dickinson and they had quite a large family.
My great-gf Arena and his wife Hana died in their mid-30s in the early 1890s. But they left behind five children including my grandfather, Te Ahitopere Arena Napia.
I think Irihapeti is buried in Opua, a small coastal town in the Bay of Islands. But her sisters, Heeni and Ruiha are buried in my family's urupa (cemetery) in the inland Bay of Islands. We don't know where George and Matire are buried.
If this is the right George I'm seeking then I'm hoping to find more information about his Scottish family. I'm also trying to find out what happened to Matire Matiaha. If anyone is interested in sharing information I would be grateful.
Thank you. Vik.
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Hi Vik,
Welcome to RootsChat. I have just merged your message to the original topic so that the other members will be notified of your post.
Regards
Sarah
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Hi Sarah,
Thanks very much. Still trying to figure out how the interface works so if this reply ends up somewhere else my apologies!
Vik
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Kia ora Vik and welcome to Rootschat!
This is most certainly the same George. I am the 3x great-grandson of Heeni’s sister Irihapeti and her second husband Abel Dickinson.
Since starting this thread back in 2019 I have had very few breakthroughs regarding George’s origins, however, I recently began working through my Ancestry DNA connections and I believe I am close to figuring it all out.
Three different people I connect with via DNA on Ancestry have trees that trace back to a woman called Margaret Sinclair. Margaret had a brother called George who was born in Wick, Caithness, Scotland on the 11th of October 1806. I have a hunch that this might be our George but I still need to confirm it so I’m going to continue working through my DNA connections and hopefully I’ll find more links to this particular family.
In regards to Matire, I also connect with a man who has a woman called Matire Te Poora Toeke in his family tree. Apparently, she was born in 1820 and was in a relationship with a man called Pakira Matiaha. Might this be our Matire Matiaha? The pair would go on to have a child together in 1842 called Katerina Matiaha.
Anyway, I’d love to know what you think, particularly regarding this info about Matire Te Poora Toeke. Also, while I’m chatting with you, would you happen to have any old photos of Heeni, Ruiha, and Irihapeti? I have some but they're all kind of low quality.
I’ll PM you my Email address, so if you have any photos to share or if you would like me to send you the photos I have just send me a message and let me know.
Kind Regards
Edesearch
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Kia ora Ede,
Great to meet another person from another branch of our family tree!
Yes, I agree. I do think George and Matire / Peti are the same people.
I have been researching our whanau for some time now and this branch has been one of the most challenging. I think it's because George and Matire were very much on the margins of society. George was a new migrant; Matire had left her settled community with George for a part of the country she knew little about. Can't be sure but I suspect there's so little information because they flew well under the radar, so to speak.
One of my cousins knows the Matiaha whanau from Wairarapa and he's been in contact with them regarding Matire. So we're hopeful we might be able to shed a little more light on her background soon.
I think I have one photo of Irihapeti Sinclair but I don't have any of Ruiha or Heeni. However I do have photos of Heeni and Ruiha's headstones at our family cemetery.
I also have a copy of the story of the court case backgrounding the killing of Issac Vanasdalen (his family's surname has evolved down the years to Van Arsdale or Vanasdale). One of the people involved in the incident was a James Whittaker. I initially thought he had no relationship to Issac. But after uncovering further information I think James was a close family friend.
I'll email you what I have later today. You have a good weekend! Vik.
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Kia ora! Jumping in. I am a descendant of Iripeti/Elizabeth/Peti/Betty Sinclair. I am descended from her son Edward from her first marriage to Isaac Vanarsdale. I have been in touch with Edesearch about her and I have some information from a descendant of Ruiha--most of it is korero from tupuna. I would love to have more information on George Sinclair and Peti Matiaha. Please message me here or you can email me (email address in my profile). I am excited about all of this new information!
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Kia Ora
Arena Napia and Hana takarua Napia- kingi are my great g g grand parents. I am looking for any information about Hana and her father Wi te mata kingi can anyone tell me how they tie to the place called Taheke in the northland of New Zealand we know they both died of young age but that is all we know .thank you