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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: lmfamilyresearch on Friday 19 April 19 19:56 BST (UK)
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Hi,
Can anyone make out what the first name of the letter writer is?
Thanks!
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Liffin
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Begins with an S, as in sincerely?
Skoosh.
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Looks like Siffri.
Carol
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It would appear that there are two dots above the name so perhaps the name is Siffin.
The dots for an 'i' always seem to be to the far right of the letter (hope that makes sense :) )
What year was the letter written and from which country?
JJ
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How about Griffin?
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The letter was written in 1905 in Rochdale, Lanc. expressing sympathies for the death of someone in Montreal Canada. I have pictures of the whole letter (which I also can't really read :) ) but the pictures are too large to attach.
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You could use the "Snipping Tool" and post it in sections.
Carol
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Does it have the street address or just Rochdale?
Does he mention names of family, wife for instance?
I can only see one Whitaker family in Rochdale in 1901.
Head is Charles Henry b 1851 a butcher, wife Sophia
Added..but there are 72 individuals showing in 1911.
None with *iffi* in their name.
Nick Name?
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Here's the first page of the letter.
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Here's the rest of the letter.
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The Whitaker name from Rochdale stood out for me because I'm hoping to figure out if this person is related to my Sarah Whitaker (abt. 1803-1861) from Rochdale. I haven't been able to trace her family at all.
Liisa
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They are at the address in 1911.
Looks like a daughter wrote the letter.
Just trying to find you the allowed link
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1911
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X4MW-T5S
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It would be helpful if could read the name of the sister in law.
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Daughter’s birth
WHITAKER, ELIZA LILLIAN CASTREE
GRO Reference: 1866 D Quarter in ROCHDALE Volume 08E Page 45
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changed my mind, see reply 19
But the older daughter must be one of these
Presumably the first.
Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:
WHITAKER, ELIZABETH BATES
GRO Reference: 1858 M Quarter in ROCHDALE Volume 08E Page 80
WHITAKER, ELIZABETH ALICE COLLIN
GRO Reference: 1859 J Quarter in ROCHDALE Volume 08E Page 69
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Marriages Mar 1863 (>99%)
Castree Eliza Manchester 8d 283
WHITAKER Charles Manchester 8d 283
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As it is a free weekend on Ancestry hopefully this link is to the marriage cert.
https://www.ancestry.com/interactive/2967/40366_293762-00794?pid=383459&backurl=https://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv%3D1%26dbid%3D2967%26h%3D383459%26tid%3D%26pid%3D%26usePUB%3Dtrue%26_phsrc%3DTQi5%26_phstart%3DsuccessSource&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=TQi5&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true
And yes, Charles is a widower
Father is John Whitaker “gentleman” which seems strange given Charles is a Cotton Spinner. On the other hand the daughters do have “private means” on the 1911
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First marriage.
https://www.ancestry.com/interactive/2962/40364_636672_2410-00015?pid=560774&backurl=https://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv%3D1%26dbid%3D2962%26h%3D560774%26tid%3D%26pid%3D%26usePUB%3Dtrue%26_phsrc%3DTQi7%26_phstart%3DsuccessSource&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=TQi7&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true
So ignore that Bates birth posted earlier
Then in 1861
Modified to add link https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M723-XHH Father John is with them (see image) he’s a Fund Holder. Age 70
So when he died there is probably a will, hopefully
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In 1851 John (a Merchant) has a wife Elizabeth and Charles is with them, plus another son George age 21.
Anyway, it is clear your Sarah Ann cannot be a daughter of John, sibling to Charles.
Am having trouble pin-pointing John’s birth c 1791.
There seem to be quite a few.
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First two pages of letter
Added. Finished
My dear Mrs .....
Father
wishes me to write to you
to say how very sorry we
all were to hear the sad
news conveyed in the
newspaper you sent us.
I am sure it must be
a great trial & loss to
you all, & a terrible
blank in your home
circle.
It is always so but
perhaps more so when
the head( ?) of the family
is taken (?) away.
Our sympathies very much
with you all
In your great sorrow
I remember when Mrs
Bulimer(?) went to ?
sometime ago she
said Mr Garth was
very far from well
With our sincere & kind
Regards to you all
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Do you think this is the same letter writer? This is also from Rochdale (this time the letterhead says Woodfield Rochdale. The handwriting is similar but is it similar enough?
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I don't think this is the same letter writer. In the first letter the writing slants to the right, in the second it slants to the left.
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Lizzie? As in short for Eliza/Elizabeth?
Sue
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I think it’s a different hand. And what’s more it’s been sent to Mrs Garth, which looks like it might be same person as in the first letter? You wouldn’t write two bereavement letters, would you?
Also, signature on this one is much more informal. And clearer. Sissie.
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When I first saw it, I wondered if the signature on the first one might be Lizzie, as Sue has suggested. Having now seen the rather idiosyncratic handwriting of the whole letter, I'm still of that opinion.
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It's funny that Lizzie was mentioned because that name popped into my head this morning when I woke up. Lizzie makes a lot more sense than Liffin or Siffin but you never know.
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Many who learnt to write in the 1950's and before will remember this form of z
I think that(or very similar) is what see in the middle of the signature.
Sue
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And when you look at the 1911 census it seems that one of the sisters filled out the census and is the same person who wrote the letter.
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I haven’t been able to find Woodfield, Rochdale (as per the second letter) anywhere.
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I found Woodfield in Rochdale on the 1901 UK census. A John E Heginbottom and his wife Sarah H. lived there. I looked at another letter in a file at an archive and it was from a Ernest Heginbottom on Woodfield in Rochdale. So Sissie from the 2nd letter must be Sarah H on the census. Maybe Sarah H was a Whitaker before her marriage.
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Many who learnt to write in the 1950's and before will remember this form of z
I think that(or very similar) is what see in the middle of the signature.
Sue
Yes, and there's the capital 'L' at the beginning of the word too.... ;D and that's the style of writing I was taught and I still use.... yes, as an aside .... in the cursive style the capital letter 'Q' is akin to the number '2'
I read the name as Lizzie.
JM
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Maybe Sarah H was a Whitaker before her marriage.
Yes ;D
Marriages Jun 1892
HEGINBOTTOM John Ernest
WHITAKER Sarah Hannah
Chorlton 8c 1337
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In letter two, she refers to the Garths as her dear cousins.
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Don’t know whether this might be useful but
In 1911, there is, in Rochdale, an Alfred E Heginbottom age 35 (b 1876) police constable born ontario, Canada
And his family.
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Mckha489,
Your snip at reply #14 looks like Sarah Ann Carlin?
Annie
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Mckha489,
Your snip at reply #14 looks like Sarah Ann Carlin?
Annie
But we now know it must be Castree.
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Ah, ok, I'm having comp probs i.e. a quick read & quick reply :)
Annie
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One of the two A or FindMyPast has it indexed as CAR. So. ;D
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Could it be Sissi ?
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Elizabeth wrote the letter. Her sister Eliza Lillian apparently went by "Lily". I found a document buried in my files that my great-aunt had done and it was a small family tree for Charles and George Whitaker. Now all I need to figure out is who is Charles and George's grandfather (their father is John who would seem to be a brother of my Sarah Whitaker).
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Elizabeth wrote the letter. Her sister Eliza Lillian apparently went by "Lily".
That's interesting that there were 2 sisters with similar names. My great-grandma and her younger sister, born 1860s-70s were both Elizabeth. The elder had a middle name and my mother always used both names when speaking of her. The list of next of kin on her brother's military record has her under her middle name. Another sister was Mary Ann but apparently was known as Sally, probably after her aunt and great-grandma.
The second letter is much easier to read than the first.
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Having looked at yours (sincerely) I think it's Soffi
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Having looked at yours (sincerely) I think it's Soffi
Like Sophie.
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Thanks everyone for all the help!