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Research in Other Countries => Europe => Topic started by: Lisa in California on Friday 19 April 19 20:23 BST (UK)
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Hello. Having never researched for German records, I am wondering if someone might be able to suggest if it is possible to learn more about the Vogel family, please?
All brothers immigrated to America in 1880.
Ernest Vogel - born c1857, Germany. Died prior to 1910, presumably in America.
Charles Vogel - born March 1858, Germany. Occupation in America: Painter. Died 1909, Arkansas, USA
August Vogel - born 21 Oct 1859, supposedly in Atzenbach, Baden, Germany. Died in 1895, Arkansas, USA
Emma Vogel - no details about her except that she was alive in 1909 and her name was Mrs. Emma Hankle of Memphis, Tennessee, USA
Any suggestions of where I might look (in Germany), please, to learn more about the family and their possible parents would be greatly appreciated. Thank you, Lisa
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Hi Lisa,
That's not much to go on. :-[
It is, however, better than nothing. ;)
Atzenbach is tiny. It might be worth sending an E-Mail to the local authorities:
https://www.zell-im-wiesental.de/index.php?id=145&no_cache=1&publish[type]=bgroup&publish[sbwid]=6000263|1&publish[servicebwId]=Einwohnermeldeamt
(info@stadt-zell.de)
Edit: The link doesn't want to play properly. If you click on the link, then on "E" in the alphabet list, then on "Einwohnermeldeamt", you will get to the page I was trying to link. ::)
Another possibility is the "Ortsvorsteher" (sort of a local mayor).
Bernhard Karle is your man for Atzenbach.
Click on "E-mail schreiben" under the text passage which is headed by "Ortsvorsteher Bernhard Karle":
https://www.zell-im-wiesental.de/de/rathaus-verwaltung/ortverwaltung-ortsvorsteher/
If the lads were born in Germany, it is likely that - with the exception of August - their names were a little different to begin with. Charles was probably Carl or Karl, whilst Ernest was probably Ernst.
Best regards,
Karen
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Hi Karen:
Thank you very much for your helpful reply. I will try your suggestions. While I thought Ernest and Charles were not so German-sounding, I didn't think of the possibility of Ernest being Ernst and of course of Charles possibly being Carl/Karl. I will keep that in mind.
Thank you for your suggestions; this is a good start. Lisa
Note: August's and Ernest's occupations were included on the image, but I cannot read the writing. >:( It is possibly Brewer? I will have to look into that as well. :)
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Hi Lisa,
You're welcome! Let's hope they can help you.
One queston: Which image are you referring to? There was nothing attached to your post (as far as I can see..!) so I don't know where you have the info from.
Karen
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Hi Karen:
Sorry for the confusion. I didn't post the image; I worry about copyright issues. I found the image on one of the pay sites; it was their arrival passenger list (1 Apr 1880, ship name - Canada, arriving New York).
Because there are very few 1890 American census records (I believe they were destroyed in a fire?), and because two of the brothers passed away "young", it has been difficult to find out much about the Vogels. I've not finished researching in the states for them, so perhaps I may find something in America that can shed some clues.
PS Thank you again for your interest. :)
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Hi Lisa,
You might get very lucky writing to the administration Zell as Karen suggested. In 2014 the „Ortssippenbuch“ Zell including Atzenbach was published. It contains the names of all citizens, collected from different archives. It’s 800 Pages and costs (in 2014) 50 Euro.
Good luck, Peonie
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Hi Peonie: Thank you for your interest as well. I am researching the Vogels for my husband. I am quite used to English and Irish records; looking into German records is a bit intimidating but I am quite curious to see if anything can be found, so I will have to get over my hesitation and just start asking questions. ;) It's good to know of available resources. Thank you, Peonie.
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A stab in the dark … you could go and check it if you have a family history centre in the neighbourhood:
“ATZENBACH: Taufen, Heiraten, Tote 1806-1888” can be found on FS film # 922055. The scans are only available via a FHC, but there are indices online (info: https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/258186?availability=Family%20History%20Library )
Note: All these baptisms seem to be taking place in Zell im Wiesental, but this is ony 2k from Atzenbach.
There is a possible Vogel family with father Bart* and mother Magdalena Grass. Unfortunately thare is no obvious possibility for August (see: https://www.familysearch.org/search/record/results?count=75&query=%2Bsurname%3Avogel~%20%2Bfather_givenname%3Abart*~%20%2Bfilm_number%3A922055 (https://www.familysearch.org/search/record/results?count=75&query=%2Bsurname%3Avogel~%20%2Bfather_givenname%3Abart*~%20%2Bfilm_number%3A922055) )
PS Here is the link to their 1880 immigration on – free site - FS (and yes it seems that 2 of them were brewers and one was a painter): https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939V-5Y9B-5D?i=893&cc=1849782
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Note: All these baptisms seem to be taking place in Zell im Wiesental, but this is ony 2k from Atzenbach.
Just to clarify that a little (in case Lisa is confused):
Zell im Wiesental is made up of a number of districts. Atzenbach is (today) the largest of these districts.
BMDs will therefore be recorded as Zell i.W.
On the German Wiki site for Atzenbach there is a list of local personalities. OK, so there are only 3 names ;D but one is:
Vogel Emil, Schulrat, Lehrer, Direktor des Marianums in Wien und Prior der Gesellschaft Mariä in Freistadt (Oberösterreich).
This Emil Vogel was (famous for being) Superintendent of the Marianum school in Vienna and Prior of the Society of Mary (Marianists) in Freistadt, Upper Austria:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Society_of_Mary_(Marianists)
I haven't been able to find out when, though. Maybe he is related to your lads, Lisa.
Best regards,
Karen
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But when the Vogels lived in Atzenbach, it was still an independant village ... !
It is interesting that the film is for Atzenbach but that the baptisms were supposedly in Zell im Wiesental. It is possible that FS had used pre-defined fields during transcribing. Maybe the children had actually been baptised in Atzenbach in the village church. It is hard to be sure without the actual scans.
see also: https://translate.google.com.au/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fde.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FAtzenbach (https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fde.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FAtzenbach)
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What exactly would an independent village be? ???
I am unsure as to what the text means as regards independence from 1811. I understand it as the separation from the bailiwick of Zell.
Lower down, it says that Atzenbach and its neighbouring villages belonged to the parish of Zell until 1942, after which Atzenbach itself became a parish.
The borders and the parishes changed, but it looks as though Atzenbach was always a "part" of Zell.
Maybe I'm seeing that wrong.
Our village has more than twice the inhabitants of Atzenbach, has a large church (over 1000 years old) and the villagers are fiercely proud of the village name. All adds up to nothing when it comes to official matters, though - the paperwork always states the name of the nearby town.
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as you are in California you can research this chap
Ernest Vogel - 1850 -1900 - Storey County , Nev ,, California ( I presume Nev is an abbreviation)
might not be your Ernest as it says 1850 - yours seems to be a little later
it is on a pay per view on www.geneanet.org
https://en.geneanet.org/fonds/individus/?country__0__=USA&country__1__=&country__2__=&country__3__=&country__4__=&exact_day=&exact_month=&exact_year=&from=&go=1&ignore_each_patronyme=&ignore_each_prenom=&nom=vogel&page=4&place__0__=&place__1__=&place__2__=&place__3__=&place__4__=&prenom=ernest&prenom_operateur=or®ion__0__=®ion__1__=®ion__2__=®ion__3__=®ion__4__=&size=10&subregion__0__=&subregion__1__=&subregion__2__=&subregion__3__=&subregion__4__=&to=&type_periode=between&zonegeo__0__=United+States&zonegeo__1__=&zonegeo__2__=&zonegeo__3__=&zonegeo__4__=
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shot in the dark - could these be related to Emma ??
LAST NAME: Hankle
FIRST NAME: Dellie
MIDDLE NAME:
BIRTH YEAR: 1885
BIRTH PLACE: Tennessee
COUNTY: Greene
AGE: 55
GENDER: Female
Residence: Civil District No 19, Greene, Tennessee
Household Members:
J B Hankle (29, Male)
Beryl Hankle (26, Female)
Clifford Hankle (10, Male)
Junior Hankle (8, Male)
Minis Hankle (5, Male)
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I am very sorry that I did not reply to your additional posts. I don't know what happened - I'm sure it was my error (rather than the possibility of not receiving notice of a new post).
I only came across this thread as I was doing a search for "California" (hoping to help someone with a California question) and noticed a Vogel thread. :-[
I will look over your additional comments now. Thank you very much for taking the time to help me. I know how frustrating it can be to help someone and not have them reply - again, I am sorry that I didn't get back here before now. :'(
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Thank you all for you interest and help. I think, with combined efforts, RootsChatters did indeed find "our" Vogel ancestors. I've been busy with some things that have taken me away from genealogy, but I've been able to spend a few minutes here and there researching.
...Note: All these baptisms seem to be taking place in Zell im Wiesental, but this is ony 2k from Atzenbach.
There is a possible Vogel family with father Bart* and mother Magdalena Grass. Unfortunately thare is no obvious possibility for August(see: https://www.familysearch.org/search/record/results?count=75&query=%2Bsurname%3Avogel~%20%2Bfather_givenname%3Abart*~%20%2Bfilm_number%3A922055 (https://www.familysearch.org/search/record/results?count=75&query=%2Bsurname%3Avogel~%20%2Bfather_givenname%3Abart*~%20%2Bfilm_number%3A922055) )..."
TreeSpirit's findings helped to find the following:
Ernst Barthlin Vogel, born 17 Jan 1856, baptism 20 Jan 1856, Zell im Wiesental (A. Schonau), Baden, Germany
Parents: Barthlin Vogel and Magdalena Grass
Louisa Johanna Vogel, baptism 25 May 1857, death 14 Apr 1858
Parents: Bartholomae Vogel and Magdalena Grass
Carl Eugene Vogel, born 12 May 1858, baptism 24 May, 1858, Zell im Wiesental, Baden, Germany.
Parents: Bartholomae Vogel and Magdalena Grass
Emilie Vogel, born 9 Apr 1865, baptism 16 Apr 1865, Zell im Wiesental (A. Schonau), Baden, Germany.
Parents: Bartholomae Vogel and Magdalena Grass
Our Vogels (siblings) were: Ernest, Charles, August and Emma (Mrs. Emma Hankle). They lived in various places, including Arkansas and Tennessee; I have numerous American records for them, including census returns. Keeping the above baptisms in mind, I found the following interesting (about our Vogels):
Ernest B Vogel, born 1856, Germany. Died 17 Jul 1900. Source: FindAGrave / Ernest B Vogel, 1900 Tennessee Census
The initial "B" points to the possibility that his parents were Bartholomae and Magdalena.
Emma Vogel, born c1865, Germany; married Unknown Hankle. Possibly this is Emma:
Amelia Henkel died in 1918, Tennessee, age 53 - so born c1865; born Germany as were her parents, father B. Vogel and unknown. Husband: Joseph Henkel.
Was Emma/Amelia really Emilie, daughter of Bartholomae and Magdalena?
I also found an obituary for August Vogel:
Born 21 October, 1859, Baden, Germany...attended schools "of Zell and at other places"..."learned the trade of machinist"...
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01nwq/
I will double-check my notes to confirm that this man was related to Charles, Ernest and Emma. Note: Among other documents, I have found a copy of a newspaper article from 1892, stating that Charles Vogel, of Wynne (Arkansas), was painting his brother, August Vogel's, house.
Aha! I need to confirm that August was a sibling as I just found this item:
August Vogel, son of B. and M. Vogel...(the rest of the paragraph is similar to the article about his passing.)
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01nwr/
I have more research to do, but it does look like our Vogel parents were Bartholomea and Magdalena. Thank you again as your interest and findings encouraged me to continue looking in America. Apologies for the long text. ;)