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Research in Other Countries => Other Countries => Topic started by: paulbarrett1984 on Sunday 21 April 19 11:55 BST (UK)
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Hello everyone, so yesterday I solved a mystery as to why I couldn't find my great great grandmother or her family prior to a the 1881 Census, firstly, they weren't here, secondly, her parents were Irish, which I didn't know, so chance are they weren't here either.
I finally found someone with the same name as her parents in the 91 census, same profession (bricklayer) and a younger Sibling I knew nothing of. This younger siblings place of birth said she was born in East India.
Oddly, I also found a registration for someone of the same name, and same time in Walsall, (where they were from)
Would British subjects in India be registered over here still?
Also, could someone point me in the direction of a register of employees of the EIC and its successor after it was disbanded? (whose name I forget, its been years since school)
Would a bricklayer be a desirable trade for the EIC?
Many thanks!
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http://www.eastindiacompany.amdigital.co.uk/Introduction/BritishLibrary
Good luck!
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Have you checked the India births on FindMyPast?
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http://www.eastindiacompany.amdigital.co.uk/Introduction/BritishLibrary
Good luck!
Thank-you.
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Have you checked the India births on FindMyPast?
No, I don't have a subscription to that website.
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Can you give some details of the family in the 1881/1891 censuses?
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Can you give some details of the family in the 1881/1891 censuses?
Hello, I'm not at my computer at the moment so can give you the precise details, but I can remember bits.
Charles Oakley, born in either Kidderminster or Ireland, his wife Mary, born in Ireland, and daughter Mary Ann, born East India. Charles is a Bricklayer, and they're either in Kingston, London, or Walsall, Staffs
The 81 census on ancestry says he's 50,but this is a transcription error, he's actually 56.
I can't remember any other details at the top of my head.
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so is this the family in 1881?
1 Brighton Place, Walsall RG11/2825 folio 9 pg 11
Charles Oakley head mar 45 labourer b. Ireland
Mary wife 52 b. Ireland
Mary Ann dau 18 dressmaker b. Dinapore? India
Eliza dau 12 b. Dinapore
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There was a Charles Oakley in Dinapore in 1861, a soldier with 38th Foot. He was still in India in 1871, by then a Sergeant. He appears in the Indian Mutiny medal list.
I can't find baptisms for the children as yet.
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possible marriage in Bengal
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FGNZ-1BT
Parish entry for the marriage shows Mary was a widow and Charles was in the 38th Regiment, I think.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/38th_(1st_Staffordshire)_Regiment_of_Foot
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so is this the family in 1881?
1 Brighton Place, Walsall RG11/2825 folio 9 pg 11
Charles Oakley head mar 45 labourer b. Ireland
Mary wife 52 b. Ireland
Mary Ann dau 18 dressmaker b. Dinapore? India
Eliza dau 12 b. Dinapore
Yes, that's them.
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Linking to the marriage register page on FindMyPast: https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=BL/BIND/005137075/00287&parentid=BL/BIND/M/59554/1
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Daughters born to Mary's prior marriage then?
Marriage at St Patrick's, Walsall for Eliza McInerney 24 Dec 1887 to John Axon from Newcastle, her father Michael, his William. One of the witnesses was Mary Oakley.
GRO ref dec qtr 1887 Walsall vol 6b pg 1044
John seems to be Colour Serjeant in the 21st Royal Scots Fusiliers and baptisms to the couple in India
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FG8Z-QLG
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FGWT-KBW
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FG35-FL6
1901 census, the family are in Penninghame, Wigtownshire
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This appears to be his army discharge file on FindMyPast: https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=GBM/WO97/2067/117/001&parentid=GBM/WO97/2067/447668
He transferred from 38th Foot to 21st Royal Scots Fusiliers from August 1871. The army file has been heavily weeded and there are only a few pages left. No mention of the marriage.
The thing is, he says he was born in Kidderminster circa 1836. There is a Charles Oakley in the 1851 census that would fit.
John seems to be Colour Serjeant in the 21st Royal Scots Fusiliers
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Charles's old regiment!
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I wonder if the father's name on Eliza's marriage is correct, given that he must have died when she was very young. There is a record for Mary Ann McInernay born 10 July 1873, baptised 20th July daughter of Martin, private in the 38th regiment, & Mary in Dinapore, slightly mistranscribed here
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FG47-5ZL
Nearest for Eliza McInerney is a birth 4 Aug & baptism 18 Aug 1869 at Sialkot, daughter of Martin, private 38th regiment, and Eliza. Baptised by RC chaplain. Transcription here leaves something to be desired!
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FGQD-KF7
Also a daughter Margaret in 1866, again Martin, private in the 38th regiment, baptised by a Catholic chaplain.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FGQK-19S
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Hello guys. Sorry for the delay in getting back to you all. I had a day out for Easter Sunday!
Just going to go through all the info you've provided and get back to you. Thanks for your help.
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possible marriage in Bengal
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FGNZ-1BT
Parish entry for the marriage shows Mary was a widow and Charles was in the 38th Regiment, I think.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/38th_(1st_Staffordshire)_Regiment_of_Foot
Hello, I'm not sure if that is them. I have a certificate for an older daughter, Harriet, born in 1856, Bromley-By-Bow.
It lists Mary as previously Covington, so I presume they're already married before they head off to India.
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The Charles Oakley we've been researching on this thread was a soldier - he joined the army in August 1855, was born in Kidderminster and was an iron puddler by occupation. On marriage in 1871 he is recorded as a bachelor. He was in the army until August 1876 and spent most of army career (nearly 19 years) in India.
I see from earlier threads that your man was a bricklayer per his daughter's 1856 birth certificate and her 1875 marriage certificate. That doesn't fit with Charles the soldier (from 1855 to 1876) and iron puddler so I think this is a false trail.
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The Charles Oakley we've been researching on this thread was a soldier - he joined the army in August 1855, was born in Kidderminster and was an iron puddler by occupation. On marriage in 1871 he is recorded as a bachelor. He was in the army until August 1876 and spent most of army career (nearly 19 years) in India.
I see from earlier threads that your man was a bricklayer per his daughter's 1856 birth certificate and her 1875 marriage certificate. That doesn't fit with Charles the soldier (from 1855 to 1876) and iron puddler so I think this is a false trail.
I don't think it is a false trail.
In the 91 Census, Charles is listed as a Bricklayer also, along with his daughter who was born in India.
Also, the birth certificate I have for his other daughter, lists her to be born in Bromley by Bow. There were almshouses and docks here for the East India company and India Office.
This is why I think it all ties in.
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The one in Walsall in 1891 is certainly the ex-soldier, but he's a bricklayer's labourer, not a bricklayer. Not the same thing.
In 1881 he's just a labourer.
In 1856 and 1875, when your Charles Oakley was recorded as a bricklayer, this Charles Oakley was a soldier (a Sergeant in 1875), having told the army that his occupation was iron puddler. It just doesn't fit.
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Also he was a soldier in the British Army. No connection with the East India Company.
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Also he was a soldier in the British Army. No connection with the East India Company.
Ah back to square one then. I thought I'd solved a 10 year mystery! :-\
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Does the marriage certificate give an address for Harriet? You have said that one of the witnesses was Mary Ann Archer - who was the other witness?
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Does the marriage certificate give an address for Harriet? You have said that one of the witnesses was Mary Ann Archer - who was the other witness?
Marriage between Harriet Oakley and Alfred Fuller. Forest Lane, Forest Gate.
Witnesses were James Parish (will try to post a picture, not 100% sure it says Parish) & Mary Ann Coventry
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I see your difficulty.
Of the bricklayers named Charles Oakley that I can find in the censuses:
- The one in the 1841 and 1851 censuses (with wife Phoebe) emigrated to Australia in April 1855.
- The one in Surbiton (Kingston) is too young (born circa 1844).
All others are too young
There is an Uxbridge newspaper report in 1865 of a Charles Oakley, bricklayer, beings asked to show why he should not contribute to the maintenance of the illegitimate offspring of Mary Ann Archer.
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The one in the 1841 and 1851 censuses (with wife Phoebe) emigrated to Australia in April 1855.
But his son Charles (born Hackney circa 1830) wasn't with them! It looks like he followed on in 1861 (arrived NSW on the Hotspur in February of that year).
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The one in the 1841 and 1851 censuses (with wife Phoebe) emigrated to Australia in April 1855.
But his son Charles (born Hackney circa 1830) wasn't with them! It looks like he followed on in 1861 (arrived NSW on the Hotspur in February of that year).
Is it possible that Charles junior came back?
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Why do you think he might have come back? Online trees suggest he died in Braidwood NSW in 1882.
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Why do you think he might have come back? Online trees suggest he died in Braidwood NSW in 1882.
Well, I'm just wondering if it could of been him.
Thinking there must be a reason why Charles, Mary & Harriet don't seem to appear on 61 and 71 Censuses, and I'm wondering if it's because they're out of the country.
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Thinking there must be a reason why Charles, Mary & Harriet don't seem to appear on 61 and 71 Censuses,
The likely reason that occurred to me was a change of name - perhaps Harriet's mother married someone else and Harriet appears in the censuses under her stepfather's surname.
Are you sure the mother's maiden name was Covington? In think I saw an online tree that had it as Corrington.
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Thinking there must be a reason why Charles, Mary & Harriet don't seem to appear on 61 and 71 Censuses,
The likely reason that occurred to me was a change of name - perhaps Harriet's mother married someone else and Harriet appears in the censuses under her stepfather's surname.
Are you sure the mother's maiden name was Covington? In think I saw an online tree that had it as Corrington.
Ive seen that too. Harriets birth certificate says Covington, and her marriage certificate has a witness named Coventry.
I've looked up various things with these names, but had no luck.