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General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: wilcoxon on Wednesday 24 April 19 16:02 BST (UK)

Title: Robert Thomas Jones died 1919.
Post by: wilcoxon on Wednesday 24 April 19 16:02 BST (UK)

Robert Thomas Jones.  Death Date:10 May 1919
Mil Hsp Lady Reed Rd Bermondsey
Rank:Driver Regiment:Royal Engineers
Regimental Number:128825

Can anyone find more on this man, I can`t find any other military records at all.
Born Rhosymedre / Ruabon c 1896, father Robert Jones, mother Christiana.
Thanks.
Title: Re: Robert Thomas Jones died 1919.
Post by: JJen on Wednesday 24 April 19 16:16 BST (UK)
His medal card shows that he was also in the Royal Welsh Fusiliers, Service No. 8414.

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D3161193

Can't see any Service record.

JJ
Title: Re: Robert Thomas Jones died 1919.
Post by: wilcoxon on Wednesday 24 April 19 16:47 BST (UK)
Thanks a lot.
Title: Re: Robert Thomas Jones died 1919.
Post by: Brentor boy on Wednesday 24 April 19 18:13 BST (UK)
You may have this already.
The names Robert Jones and Christiana Evans on same page of marriage register, Sep Q 1894, Wrexham.
Birth of Robert Thomas Jones (mmn Evans) registered Wrexham Maelor, Sep Q 1895.
Title: Re: Robert Thomas Jones died 1919.
Post by: wilcoxon on Wednesday 24 April 19 18:41 BST (UK)
Thanks, I did find that, but it seems to be a civil marriage,  I am researching RT and his mother, both are buried in Wrexham Cemetery together. Christiana seems to have been a widow when she married , but I'm struggling to find her maiden name.
Robert Jones 🙄 oh well !
Title: Re: Robert Thomas Jones died 1919.
Post by: rosie17 on Wednesday 24 April 19 18:49 BST (UK)
Just see UK Register of Soldiers Effects with the information you already have
Died of illness Mil Hospital Lady Reed Bermondsey 10/5/19
Father Robert

Rosie
Title: Re: Robert Thomas Jones died 1919.
Post by: rosie17 on Wednesday 24 April 19 18:59 BST (UK)
Birth of a daughter Mary Martha Evans 1891 Wrexham
Mothers maiden name Evans
Is this the same family ?

Rosie
Title: Re: Robert Thomas Jones died 1919.
Post by: rosie17 on Wednesday 24 April 19 19:07 BST (UK)
Birth of son Alfred Ernest Jones 1901 Wrexham also gives mothers maiden name as Evans

Rosie
Title: Re: Robert Thomas Jones died 1919.
Post by: wilcoxon on Wednesday 24 April 19 19:16 BST (UK)
Yes, that's her. She is in either 1901 or 1911 census and her daughter Alice is step daughter  to Robert. But I cant find her or her other Evans sons birth.

Title: Re: Robert Thomas Jones died 1919.
Post by: Gwil on Wednesday 24 April 19 19:33 BST (UK)

His RWF 8416 number will be a Territorial Force (TF) number (RWF 4th Bn). The fact that it's on his Medal Card/Roll shows he went overseas under this number and then transferred to RE.

His CWGC entry does not show his Rank in the main page but delving into the records they provide shows he was Pioneer and not a Driver as per your opener post which is probably based on the Soldiers Effects transcript or a Gunner as transcribed by the NA MIC link in post 2 by JJen. Look at the original Effects page/MIC on Ancestry and you'll see it's Pioneer (plus, is Gunner a RE rank even?)

You're probably aware that the TF were renumbered to six digits in 'early 1917'. Without going into it in depth I can tell you he was not so renumbered. His RWF enlistment date is mid Nov 1915 so he was transferred to RE sometime after landing in France in 1916 and before 'early 1917'.

The Soldiers Effects entry shows he was in 3rd Reserve Bn. His Medal Roll does not show his RE overseas unit. I'll stick my neck out and say it's likely to have been a Tunneler Coy but this would need some research or even better, a suitable query on the Great War Forum where you might attract a response from on the RE experts.


Do you have a photo of him please? (for the RWF Fallen project run by RWF Museum)
Title: Re: Robert Thomas Jones died 1919.
Post by: Gwil on Wednesday 24 April 19 19:44 BST (UK)
Re Overseas unit

I'm having second thoughts on Tunnelers. Looking on SDGW entries around his number and I see many are Special Coys**   Asking on GWF is the way forward should you want to pursue this angle.



** i.e the Poison Gas Coys   see   http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-corps-of-royal-engineers-in-the-first-world-war/the-special-companies-of-the-royal-engineers-poison-gas/
Title: Re: Robert Thomas Jones died 1919.
Post by: rosie17 on Wednesday 24 April 19 19:48 BST (UK)
Is this Alice on the 1891 census civil parish Ruabon Denbighshire ?
Joseph Evans age 24 born Ruabon occupation labourer
Christiana Evans age 24 born Ellesmere Shropshire
Alice Evans age 5 born Ellesmere Shropshire

There is a birth registration for Alice Evans 1886 Ellesmere no mothers maiden name

Rosie
Title: Re: Robert Thomas Jones died 1919.
Post by: rosie17 on Wednesday 24 April 19 20:03 BST (UK)
There is a possible marriage 1889 Wreham Denbighshire
Christiana Evans
Joseph Evans

Possible death for a Joseph Evans  Apr - June  1891 Wrexham Denbighshire
Birth year about 1867

Rosie
Title: Re: Robert Thomas Jones died 1919.
Post by: Brentor boy on Wednesday 24 April 19 21:14 BST (UK)
Christiana Evans born Ellesmere, Sept Q, 1863. 6a/649.
Title: Re: Robert Thomas Jones died 1919.
Post by: wilcoxon on Wednesday 24 April 19 22:28 BST (UK)
Yes, it may be Evan's/ Evan's.

Thanks Gwil, very interesting.  I have searched but so far have found no photo.
Title: Re: Robert Thomas Jones died 1919.
Post by: wilcoxon on Thursday 25 April 19 10:09 BST (UK)
There is a possible marriage 1889 Wreham Denbighshire
Christiana Evans
Joseph Evans

Possible death for a Joseph Evans  Apr - June  1891 Wrexham Denbighshire
Birth year about 1867

Rosie

https://newspapers.library.wales/view/3171967/3171969/9/

Poor man, the address matches the 1891 census, but they have  only have a 5 year old daughter Alice at home.
Title: Re: Robert Thomas Jones died 1919.
Post by: rosie17 on Thursday 25 April 19 12:03 BST (UK)
That is so sad and so young also ...Maybe their other child could have been staying with relatives on the night of the census ? ...I notice on the 1911 census she has had 3 children that have died

Rosie
Title: Re: Robert Thomas Jones died 1919.
Post by: wilcoxon on Thursday 25 April 19 15:37 BST (UK)
His medal card shows that he was also in the Royal Welsh Fusiliers, Service No. 8414.

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D3161193



JJ

 is this on Ancestry ? I can`t seem to find it using the same numbers .
Title: Re: Robert Thomas Jones died 1919.
Post by: wilcoxon on Thursday 25 April 19 20:32 BST (UK)
Thanks to everyone who helped,  I have found all I need on this family.    :)
Title: Re: Robert Thomas Jones died 1919.
Post by: Gwil on Friday 26 April 19 17:47 BST (UK)
His medal card shows that he was also in the Royal Welsh Fusiliers, Service No. 8414.

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D3161193



JJ

 is this on Ancestry ? I can`t seem to find it using the same numbers .

Yes it is (link below)  Ancestry have a trancript problem with many MIC's especially for those with more than one number.
When you know for sure there is a MIC (i.e from a NA search or a FindMyPast search) I suggest you be a bit creative in your search whilst leaving out a number.
In this case search Robert Jones and, in the Regiment field put in Royal Wel* Eng* which covers both 'regiments'  You'll get a return of 17 possibles and just scan down to the one you want.

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/1262/30850_A000870-01948?pid=5559992&backurl=https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc%3DQkU1%26_phstart%3DsuccessSource%26usePUBJs%3Dtrue%26indiv%3D1%26db%3Dmedalrolls%26gsfn%3Drobert%26gsln%3Djones%26gsfn_x%3D1%26gsln_x%3D1%26cp%3D0%26_F00061C3%3Droyal%2520wel*%2520eng*%26_F00061C3_x%3D1%26new%3D1%26rank%3D1%26uidh%3Da63%26redir%3Dfalse%26gss%3Dangs-d%26pcat%3D39%26fh%3D15%26h%3D5559992%26recoff%3D%26ml_rpos%3D16&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=QkU1&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true
Title: Re: Robert Thomas Jones died 1919.
Post by: wilcoxon on Friday 26 April 19 18:13 BST (UK)
Thanks, it looks like your skills at searching.are much better than mine.