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Independent Islands => Isle of Man => Topic started by: tsosbee on Saturday 27 April 19 15:15 BST (UK)

Title: Sir John Stanley, II, Titular King of Mann
Post by: tsosbee on Saturday 27 April 19 15:15 BST (UK)
My 17th Great Grandfather was Sir John Stanley II, Titular King of Mann. 6 generations after that, my family becomes the Hale Family in 1590, and remains Hale until my own great grandmother Estella Lee Hale 1889. (see attached).
My 29th Great Grandfather was Geoffrey II, 10th Count of Anjou, and as we moved forward, we identify King Henry II of England in 1133. This led to a multitude of Plantagenet, Capet and Anjou dynasties. All of this has now been validated and verified by genealogical professionals. All in all, there are over 120 Kings and Queens from Europe and Scandinavia (Denmark, Sweden and Norway) in my tree. My questions is this: What does one do with all of this now? Is it just nice to know? Or should I do something with it? We've already had our DNA tested with Poppa of Bayeaux (King Rollo's wife) and are waiting for results. Suggestions??
Title: Re: Sir John Stanley, II, Titular King of Mann
Post by: Maiden Stone on Monday 29 April 19 22:23 BST (UK)
My 17th Great Grandfather was Sir John Stanley II, Titular King of Mann. 6 generations after that, my family becomes the Hale Family in 1590, and remains Hale until my own great grandmother Estella Lee Hale 1889. (see attached).
Whatever it was you meant to attach hasn't showed.
Title: Re: Sir John Stanley, II, Titular King of Mann
Post by: tsosbee on Monday 29 April 19 22:34 BST (UK)
Maiden Stone, Sorry I'm new to this whole thing. Is there a way to attach an image that you're aware of?
Title: Re: Sir John Stanley, II, Titular King of Mann
Post by: Maiden Stone on Monday 29 April 19 22:41 BST (UK)
Go to 'Help'. Select 'Posting new topics and replies'.  N.B. check size.
Title: Re: Sir John Stanley, II, Titular King of Mann
Post by: hallmark on Monday 29 April 19 22:44 BST (UK)


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Title: Re: Sir John Stanley, II, Titular King of Mann
Post by: youngtug on Monday 29 April 19 23:00 BST (UK)
The OP will not be able to attach a picture because this is a lookup request board it seems there is no facility to do so.

OKkkk. thats changed???????????
Title: Re: Sir John Stanley, II, Titular King of Mann
Post by: Maiden Stone on Tuesday 30 April 19 01:07 BST (UK)
I didn't realise it was on the look-up board. It's not a request for a look-up, it's asking opinions. There will be a better home for it.  :)
I've requested it be rehomed.
Title: Re: Sir John Stanley, II, Titular King of Mann
Post by: KGarrad on Tuesday 30 April 19 06:40 BST (UK)
Your link to the King of Mann is a bit of mildly interesting nonsense, IMHO ;D

For example, there are estimated to be in excess of 4 million descendants of King Edward III.

Sir John Stanley II's great grandson, Edward Stanley 3rd Earl of Derby revoked the title of "King" and styled himself Lord of Mann in 1504.

In 1765, the title was revested in the Crown of Great Britain (Act of Revestment, 1765). So the current Lord of Mann is better known as Queen Elizabeth II.

In the past few years there have been at least 2 claims from America to the title King of Mann ::)
Title: Re: Sir John Stanley, II, Titular King of Mann
Post by: Skoosh on Tuesday 30 April 19 09:49 BST (UK)
More importantly, are you related to Danny Dyer?  ;D

Skoosh.
Title: Re: Sir John Stanley, II, Titular King of Mann
Post by: KGarrad on Tuesday 30 April 19 12:32 BST (UK)
More importantly, are you related to Danny Dyer?  ;D

Skoosh.

Skoosh,  Not me!
But I AM related to Barbara Windsor ;D
Title: Re: Sir John Stanley, II, Titular King of Mann
Post by: youngtug on Tuesday 30 April 19 13:10 BST (UK)
Well, what do you know, there is a option to post a photo today, there was not yesterday!

Of course, the thread has been moved to a different board, which is why.
Title: Re: Sir John Stanley, II, Titular King of Mann
Post by: Skoosh on Tuesday 30 April 19 14:12 BST (UK)
KG, I know a guy who shared a cell with her first man! Does that make us related at all?  ;D

Skoosh.
Title: Re: Sir John Stanley, II, Titular King of Mann
Post by: tsosbee on Tuesday 30 April 19 16:04 BST (UK)
Thank you to whoever fixed this so we can now actually add an attachment. As I previously asked about the Stanley Family; does anyone have any information regarding Mabellla Hausket Stanley (circa 1290) Stourton Parva, England?
Title: Re: Sir John Stanley, II, Titular King of Mann
Post by: Maiden Stone on Wednesday 01 May 19 03:13 BST (UK)
Have you tried this source list ? Recommended by Vance, another RootsChatter, yesterday, in answer to another  enquiry about early family history research.
https://www.medievalgenealogy.org.uk/index.html
Looking at Families heading, 3 books for Stanley, none for Hausket. What variations of her surname have you found?
Some links no longer work.
Title: Re: Sir John Stanley, II, Titular King of Mann
Post by: Maiden Stone on Wednesday 01 May 19 03:45 BST (UK)
'History of the House of Stanley' by Seacombe  and  'Pedigrees of the County Families of England: Lancashire' by Foster  have Mabel's father as Sir James Hausket of Stourton Parva.  'The House of Stanley' by Peter Edmund Stanley (1998) disagrees. (This is from WikiTree profile of John Stanley 1292-1346)
Title: Re: Sir John Stanley, II, Titular King of Mann
Post by: tsosbee on Wednesday 01 May 19 09:51 BST (UK)
Thank you to everyone for the answers. Being new to Rootschat, I haven't learned the proper protocol, and when I went to the chat, I met some folks there who weren't so nice. So I will seek opinions and advice elsewhere. I do appreciate the handful of nice people on Rootschat who were very helpful. My wife's tree has been completed as far as it can go; and validated/sourced as far as it can be. I thought that with all of the genealogical folks on Rootschat, they could offer some advice on what to do next. I did not expect to be ridiculed and challenged just because I'm not in the UK. My wife was raised as an orphan, and just getting started on an orphan's tree is difficult enough. Her tree should help inspire other orphans to search out their lineage. This was never about money, power or fame. It was about making a remarkable discovery. It was about discovering that she is related to 120 Kings and Queens of Europe, and is a descendant of the Holy Family. Now that's amazing! Not sure why that's so hard to understand. It's great for her to know where she came from and how great her bloodline is. Goodbye Rootschat.com
Title: Re: Sir John Stanley, II, Titular King of Mann
Post by: Viktoria on Wednesday 01 May 19 10:14 BST (UK)
KG, I know a guy who shared a cell with her first man! Does that make us related at all?  ;D

Skoosh.
Defrably!
I am not so sure all the Stanleys were knights in shining armour,usually
waited to see which way the wind blew before committing to one side or the other,as at Bosworth.

The Derby family are pretty strong hereabouts.
Tale of the Eagle and Child connected to the Stanleys is really part of the Lathom history.
Corrupted over centuries,original version  now pretty well forgotten.

The Queen’s  titles do include Lord of Sodor and Man.

I hope our new RootsChatter enjoys the results of their hard work.
Viktoria.



Title: Re: Sir John Stanley, II, Titular King of Mann
Post by: KGarrad on Wednesday 01 May 19 11:36 BST (UK)
KG, I know a guy who shared a cell with her first man! Does that make us related at all?  ;D

Skoosh.

The Queen’s  titles do include Lord of Sodor and Man.


Just Lord of Mann, Viktoria.
Sodor & Man is the title of the Diocese, and the Bishop is Bishop of Sodor & Man ;D

Of course, Sodor is also the name of the island, between Man and Cumbria, where Thomas the Tank Engine (& friends) lives ;)
Title: Re: Sir John Stanley, II, Titular King of Mann
Post by: CarolA3 on Wednesday 01 May 19 16:08 BST (UK)
I did not expect to be ridiculed and challenged just because I'm not in the UK.

That is an extraordinary allegation.  You haven't given any clue as to your location, so how could anyone 'ridicule' you for it?

As for 'challenging' you, I feel that what you've seen here is akin to the peer review process in the academic world, bearing in mind that most of us are not professional academics.

Carol

P.S. For what it's worth, I'm not in the UK either, and nor is the Isle of Man.
Title: Re: Sir John Stanley, II, Titular King of Mann
Post by: Old Bristolian on Wednesday 01 May 19 16:46 BST (UK)
I hate to add ridicule, if any was originally offered, but to be able to trace ones ancestors back to the Holy Family the OP must be on another planet rather than another country.
Title: Re: Sir John Stanley, II, Titular King of Mann
Post by: sarah on Wednesday 01 May 19 17:14 BST (UK)
Can we please keep this new members first topic on track, there is a "off topic" section for those who wish to chat.

Welcome to RootsChat tsosbee, wishing you all the best in your research.

Regards

Sarah
Title: Re: Sir John Stanley, II, Titular King of Mann
Post by: Viktoria on Wednesday 01 May 19 17:20 BST (UK)
KG, I know a guy who shared a cell with her first man! Does that make us related at all?  ;D

Skoosh.

The Queen’s  titles do include Lord of Sodor and Man.


Just Lord of Mann, Viktoria.
Sodor & Man is the title of the Diocese, and the Bishop is Bishop of Sodor & Man ;D

Of course, Sodor is also the name of the island, between Man and Cumbria, where Thomas the Tank Engine (& friends) lives ;)
Thank you ,I realised I had mixed up the diocese when you brought my attention to it. Rushed in AGAIN,!
I also thought T the T E was on the I,O.M.
Don ‘t ever ask me to be a witness! I would say what I thought I saw ::)
The number of times I have read the books to my little boys!
Seriously thanks,Viktoria.
Title: Re: Sir John Stanley, II, Titular King of Mann
Post by: Maiden Stone on Wednesday 01 May 19 18:06 BST (UK)
Thank you to everyone for the answers. Being new to Rootschat, I haven't learned the proper protocol, and when I went to the chat, I met some folks there who weren't so nice. So I will seek opinions and advice elsewhere. I do appreciate the handful of nice people on Rootschat who were very helpful. My wife's tree has been completed as far as it can go; and validated/sourced as far as it can be. I thought that with all of the genealogical folks on Rootschat, they could offer some advice on what to do next. I did not expect to be ridiculed and challenged just because I'm not in the UK. My wife was raised as an orphan, and just getting started on an orphan's tree is difficult enough. Her tree should help inspire other orphans to search out their lineage. This was never about money, power or fame. It was about making a remarkable discovery. It was about discovering that she is related to 120 Kings and Queens of Europe, and is a descendant of the Holy Family. Now that's amazing! Not sure why that's so hard to understand. It's great for her to know where she came from and how great her bloodline is. Goodbye Rootschat.com

I'm sorry you feel that way. Noticing that you were new, I tried to help.

Like Viktoria, I lived in Stanley country and learned in school history lessons how they came to prominence. I think they owned the ground on which my parents' house was built.
A branch of my family had a connection to a Latham family who were minor gentry.

Medieval genealogical research is fraught with difficulties. Even expert genealogists and historians  disagree. (E.g. the 3 books in my previous post disagree about Mabel's father.) Some pedigrees in county Heraldic Visitations contain errors. The medieval genealogy source list which I posted cautions against placing too much reliance on the Visitation pedigrees without corroboration. There are also cautionary notes about other sources on the site and general advice to use judgement on everything. Females are particularly difficult to research and it's easy to follow the wrong ones.

To be fair, your first post contained questions, underlined, asking for opinions and suggestions. Some people gave theirs robustly.
The remark about Danny Dyer is a running joke. There is levity and repartee on RootsChat, mixed with serious stuff. Anyone who mentions a connection to royalty is likely to have Danny Dyer's name
 tossed at them.



Title: Re: Sir John Stanley, II, Titular King of Mann
Post by: Maiden Stone on Wednesday 01 May 19 20:43 BST (UK)
As I previously asked about the Stanley Family; does anyone have any information regarding Mabellla Hausket Stanley (circa 1290) Stourton Parva, England?

Various tree-owners have her born 1290-1300 and dying 1346-1400. One has a baptism for her but it's no help since it was a Latter Day Saints baptism in 1934. Suggested marriage years 1303 and 1311. Childhood betrothals and marriage used to happen. There is also a choice of spouses - John Stanley, William Stanley and Walter Stanley, the last of these with a birth year around 1245. Did other Stanley men marry a Mabel/Mabella Hausket/Hawksnet?
There is also a question as to whether Mabel was 1st or 2nd or only wife, as Emma Lathom is suggested as another candidate. A wide choice of birth and death years for Emma; perhaps there was more than 1 of her. There was a later Stanley - Lathom marriage.

Have you searched for evidence of marriage settlements? I assume she would have brought something to the union. Any property or money or valuable goods acquired by Stanley around 1303 or 1311 which can't be accounted for in another way?
Are there Stanley or Ausket wills from the period?

Lancashire Archives online catalogue LANCAT seems to be undergoing maintenance today so I couldn't browse the Stanley collection.
National Archives online catalogue Discovery includes holdings of county and other archives.
Search term Stanley and selecting century 1200-1299 shows catalogue entries for Lancashire Archives, British Library Manuscript Collections and others.
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_q=Stanley&_p=1200
Filter centuries to suit.
A similar search for Hausnet and Hawksnet had no result.
I used Advanced Search for Storeton, selecting year range 1290-1320. Among results were several in Rylands Charters, Storeton, Cheshire Collection at Manchester University Library.
One item was 'Final concord between Adam de Stanleigh, plaintiff, and William de Stanleigh and Johanna, his wife', dated 1318.
Edit. Click on title of an index entry to be taken to the catalogue description. Clicking name of record creator at top of page takes you to a page which summarises records created by that family.
For instance, by doing that I saw that a Stanley pedigree is in a Bedford museum. Doing same for a 'Stanley, Earls of Derby' item led me to an account of the archivist who took charge of the collection from the owner, preserved and catalogued it, (mention of Isle of Man docs.) plus a long list of documents and a place index.  (Browsing place index, I concluded that Stanley did once own the ground under my family's feet until we redeemed it.)