RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Topic started by: sachaB on Saturday 27 April 19 21:51 BST (UK)
-
I am helping a friend research her family history but have hit a brick wall with regard to her father’s side of the family. I would really appreciate some help.
So far I have found her great-grandfather named on his daughter’s marriage certificate;
Arthur Patrick Riley (deceased), profession - railway locomotive driver. I assume he may have been killed in the war but have searched through many war records of Arthur Rileys, to no avail.
Marriage date - 15th January 1949 of his daughter, Annie Riley aged 20 years/spinster married Frank Holland otherwise Higginson - does this mean he went by two names?
I have not been able to find Annie at all apart from this certificate.
I am new to Rootschat so hopefully I’ve posted the right question in the right place! :)
Thank you!
-
Hello and welcome
The marriage took place in Chesterfield, Derbyshire. Do you know if Annie was from Derbyshire?
Who were the witnesses to the marriage?
Heywood
-
Welcome from me too :)
I can see a male Holland birth registration in Chesterfield, mother’s maiden name Riley, in Jun qtr 1949 which if relevant to this couple suggests that Holland was the favoured surname. (Also that Annie was pregnant at marriage).
-
An Arthur Patrick Riley might well have been Irish. Are there family recollections of Irish heritage? Is the family Catholic?
-
Frank may be the Francis John Holland, mother’s maiden name Higginson, whose birth was registered Sep qtr 1929 Manchester South. If so, he had a twin sister named Veronica.
Parents were Francis J Holland and Elizabeth A Higginson, who married Sep qtr 1926 Manchester South.
Actually no - this Francis and his twin Veronica died soon after their 1929 birth.
-
Does your friend know where and when her paternal grandparents died (even roughly)?
-
There’s a death registration for an Arthur Patrick Riley aged 51, Jun qtr 1945 Newcastle 10b 121.
None other in England & Wales in the relevant timeframe.
-
There’s a death registration for an Arthur Patrick Riley aged 51, Jun qtr 1945 Newcastle 10b 121.
None other in England & Wales in the relevant timeframe.
I think this is that Arthur.
https://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/2810468/riley,-arthur-patrick/
Likely marriage
1921 to Elizabeth A Hornsby.
I can’t see a daughter Annie though :-\
-
Thank you so much for your speedy replies.
It sounds as if the Holland birth in 1949 with mother’s maiden name as Riley would be my friend’s father (who sadly passed away in February).
She used to visit her grandfather (Frank Holland) in Chesterfield. He married Annie and they had my friend’s father, Kenneth Mervin. Then, Frank remarried Margaret Slater in 1928 and had six more children.
I would expect to find a divorce record for Annie and Frank but I haven’t found one.
The witnesses at the wedding were Beryl Lodge and Eric Wilson.
I think there was talk of an Irish connection, are there some good sites to search that might cover this? I have not been able to find any more about Annie. I use Ancestry perhaps other sites might have additional data?
Apologies for all the questions. I am a novice but love helping friends discover their ancestors. Arthur Riley is proving elusive!
Thank you for your help!
-
Thank you so much for your speedy replies.
It sounds as if the Holland birth in 1949 with mother’s maiden name as Riley would be my friend’s father (who sadly passed away in February).
She used to visit her grandfather (Frank Holland) in Chesterfield. He married Annie and they had my friend’s father, Kenneth Mervin. Then, Frank remarried Margaret Slater in 1928 and had six more children.
I would expect to find a divorce record for Annie and Frank but I haven’t found one.
The witnesses at the wedding were Beryl Lodge and Eric Wilson.
I think there was talk of an Irish connection, are there some good sites to search that might cover this? I have not been able to find any more about Annie. I use Ancestry perhaps other sites might have additional data?
Apologies for all the questions. I am a novice but love helping friends discover their ancestors. Arthur Riley is proving elusive!
Thank you for your help!
The remarriage of Frank Holland aka Higginson to Margaret Slater was Jun qtr 1959 Scunthorpe.
These dates are too modern to find divorce records listed online. Is the family’s recollection that there was a divorce? If Annie’s death could be found that might assist with her birthdate.
-
I see that the Holland/Slater children were born 1953-1965 (so the earlier ones before the remarriage), the first two in Chesterfield and the rest in Scunthorpe.
NB you will see that we are careful on Rootschat not to name living people, in line with the rules here.
-
How old was Frank when he first married in 1949?
-
Is there an address for Annie on her marriage certificate?
-
Yes, I found the war record of APR too but dismissed it as I couldn’t find any sign of Annie. If she was born in Ireland should it show up on Ancestry if ‘All Collections’ are turned?
Would his job as a train driver be worth looking in to? It might help with home address if on a trade union register?
My friend’s father lived with his dad (Frank Holland) and stepmother and step-siblings. He didn’t know his mum, Annie, although she did try to get him back at one point but she wasn’t allowed to see him. It just struck me that she could still be alive. She was born in 1929 so she would be 90 or more likely remarried so her surname would have changed.
Yes, thank you, I appreciate that this is for tracing ancestors and not living relatives. Its Arthur and his ancestors my friend really wants to find.
-
Yes, the address for Annie and Frank are the same on the marriage certificate; 66 Emmett Cau, Renishaw
-
Frank was 21 when he married Annie in 1949.
-
Yes, the address for Annie and Frank are the same on the marriage certificate; 66 Emmett Cau, Renishaw
Should be 66 Emmett Car(r), Renishaw.
I suggest you look at Frank Holland b 23 Jan 1927 in the 1939 Register - you may find him at a familiar address!
-
Frank’s birth: registered as Frank Higginson, mother’s maiden name Percival, Mar qtr 1927 Manchester N.
Parents were Frank Higginson and Harriet Percival, married (just in time) Dec qtr 1926 Manchester N.
It looks as though he died as Frank Holland in Birmingham in 2006.
-
Good finds - I was hoping we would find Annie :)
-
There’s actually a possibility that the female marriage witness is still alive, married & living in Sheffield.
Can’t give full details here, but I suppose the family might consider trying to contact her as she is likely to know something about Annie, I’d imagine (who would have been two or three years older).
-
Cannot see any Arthur Rileys on 1911 Irish census.
-
'She was born in 1929 '
There is an Annie Riley born in Belper in 1930, no father. Could she have invented Arthur?
Added:
Forget her, died age 0.
-
Thank you for all your time and effort. :)
I will pass on the info to my friend. If she wants to find out more it looks as if the marriage witness is the person to trace.
I will let you know if she finds out more about Annie and her father/ancestors.
Thank you!
-
If Annie was 20 when she married on 15 January 1949, her birthdate is more likely to be 1928 than 1929.
Do let us know what you & your friend discover. PM me if you need a pointer on the marriage witness.
-
The name RILEY isn't necessarily Irish. I knew a family of that name who'd lived in a Suffolk village for donkey's years, and they'd discovered that it derived from 'Rye lea' = field of rye.
Carol
-
'If Annie was 20 when she married on 15 January 1949, her birthdate is more likely to be 1928 than 1929.'
I was assuming she might not have been completely truthful.