RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Europe => Topic started by: jimmain on Sunday 28 April 19 16:47 BST (UK)
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I am researching two of my LABRIE families who immigrated to Quebec from France in the mid 1600s. I know that one of the lines came from St-Germain-Laxis in the Seine-et-Marne department, Ile de France. I also have a marriage document (Jean-Baptiste Mignault/ Marie Boucher, married 1689 in Quebec) in which the priest indicates that Jean's parents, Louis Mignot/ Jeanne Charon came from
St-Germain-de-la-Cime in Brie, Sens Bourgogne. I have spent considerable time trying to find this particular parish without any success. I suspect that the entry (St-Germain-de-la-Cime) was an error and that it should have read 'St-Germain-Laxis'.
Can anyone confirm that St-Germain-de-la-Cime did or does exist?
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Hello, can you make this point clear : where does the info " st germain de la cime, Sens, Bourgogne" come from? ( I presume it is from a paying site)
I can.t find any st germain de la cime in France. But it sounds like st germain laxis.
ADDED: the on-line parish registers of St Germain Laxis begin in 1669.
There were some Mignot in the village, I found the baptism of a Marie Mignot in 1671 page 10 , daughter of Louis and Jeanne Cha..ron (u)
There is a thread on filae ( is it you ?), and some trees on the net , same infos as yours.
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http://mairiestgermainlaxis.free.fr/histoire_048.htm
http://www.seine-et-marne-quebec.fr/seineetmarne/
Le château de Vaux-le-Vicomte Chef d’œuvre de trois artistes réunis par un riche mécène, Nicolas Fouquet : Louis Le Vau est l’architecte, Charles Le Brun, le décorateur et André Le Nôtre le paysagiste. Le 17 août 1661, après une réception trop brillante à son goût Louis XIV confirme l’arrestation du surintendant des Finances Fouquet sur les accusations de Colbert. Il engagea les artistes de Vaux le Vicomte pour le château de Versailles…Prés de Vaux le Vicomte, le village de Saint-Germain-Laxis a vu naître Jean Mignot qui épouse en 1689 Marie Boucher à Château-Richer près de Québec. Il vécut ensuite à Rivière Ouelle jusqu'à sa mort en 1735.
http://seine-et-marne-quebec.fr/data/documents/circuitsudfiniavec2018.pdf
https://gw.geneanet.org/gwinkelmuller?n=migneault&oc=&p=jean+baptiste
and
https://gw.geneanet.org/rdallaire?fc=geneastar&idgeneastar=gntstar672&n=mignot&oc=&p=jean+baptiste
someone else found Marie
https://gw.geneanet.org/patriceeee?lang=fr&pz=patrice+jacques+raymond&nz=langer&p=jean+baptiste&n=migneault
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If you want to be precise :
St germain Laxis is NOWADAYS in the departement of SEINE ET MARNE which is part of the region Ile-de-France.
in 1635 it was part of the diocese of Sens.
but it makes no sense to say nowadays : st germain de laxis, Brie, Sens , Burgundy or Bourgogne
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Marie MIGNOT to Louis and Jeanne CHAILLOU? CHAIBRON?
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https://gw.geneanet.org/skylar?n=mignot+mignault+migneault+dit+labrie&oc=&p=louis+joseph
this one seems to have the parents of Jean baptiste Mignot but It could be worth trying to contact the owner .
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https://gw.geneanet.org/juleshamel?n=mignot&oc=&p=jean+baptiste
this one has a second wife
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Many thanks for all the responses.
The information of St-Germain-de-la-Cime came from the following marriage record which I will include here as an attachment- hope it works.
Marriage record : Jean Mignot/ Marie Boucher, 1689, Quebec
Jean, son of Louis Mignot/ Jeanne Charon
Marie, daughter of Pierre Boucher/ Marie St-Denis
Jean Mignor/ Marie Boucher – marriage record states that he was the son of
Louis/ Jeanne Charon of St Germain de la Cime en Brie Sens Bourgogne
Jim Main
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I hope you can decipher the attachment indicating St Germain de la Cime.
New information for me is that Marie, born 1671 was a sister.
Jean (or Jean-Baptiste) was born either 1660 or 1665 (as per other researchers); would you be able to check that in the records you accessed for Marie's birth.
Apparently Jean's father, Louis, died 7Nov 1689, St Germain Laxis.
His son Jean immigrated to Quebec in 1688 and was known as 'Mignault Labrie'. He married Marie-Sainte Boucher 7Nov 1689, Chateau Richer Quebec.
The more I research this, the more I think there was an error in the document. It does clearly indicate St-Germain de la Cime en Brie eveche de Sens en Bourgogne, but I have not found any referral to that place in any other location.
Your other reference indicating that Jean Mignot was born in St-Germain-Laxis seems to confirm that his parents married and lived there.
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I'm seeing/reading "... Louis mignot et de Jeanne cheron les pere et mere de la paroisse de st germain de la seine(?) en brie Euesche(?) de sems(?) en Bourgogne ..."
The bold "s" identifies occurrences of the long or medial "s". I certainly think the first character after "... de la paroisse de st germain de la ..." is a long or medial "s".
Cannot read it as "Cime".
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It is written St germain de la Sime , this place does not exist or did not exist . it was misunderstood in Canada and written de la sime . It should be St germain Laxis which was called in those days St Germain de Lacist.
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I think Charon was not quite the name of Jean B 's mother , moreover different sites gives Charron, Chaillou, Chazou ...
The parish registers of St Germain de Lacist still exist for the years :1669 (from july to december), 1670, 1671. the registers from 1672 to 1729 are missing (destroyed ,robbed etc...). Then you have the registers from 1729 to 1770.
http://archives.archinoe.com/cg77/index.php/rechercheTheme/requeteConstructor/13/5/A/0/0#
This means that you cannot find your ancestors's baptisms, marriages or deaths.
I could try to decipher these registers to find a member of jeanne Ch? 's family, to get a more precise idea of her real name.
I'll let you know .
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It is written St germain de la Sime ,
At least you have confrirmed the leading character is the medial "s"
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Your input is much appreciated. I've spent many days on this and my conclusion is that when the document was written, the priest misinterpreted 'La -xis' as 'La-Sime'. This is the only document that I have reviewed with this name, so I feel that 'Sime' was an error and that this family married and raised their children in St-Germain-Laxis.
Thanks everyone.
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Hello, I have found 2 occurences of the name CHAILLOU in the registers .
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1731. One can still argue that is is written CHAILLON. But it is not written CHARRON
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I haven't found Marie Mignot's marriage or death .
Here are several trees with different ways of spelling the name Mignot.
https://gw.geneanet.org/mariefrancet?lang=fr&iz=19&p=louis&n=migno+dit+labrie
https://gw.geneanet.org/denisriel?n=migneau&oc=&p=louis
https://gw.geneanet.org/jacquesdespres2?n=migneault&oc=&p=louis
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This has been of major interest for me as I descend from two lines of MIGNOTS (who later became Labrie in Canada): Jean Mignot dit Labrie (Marie Sainte Boucher 1689), and Jean Mignot dit Chatillon (Louise Cloutier 1648).
Jean Mignot dit Labrie was the son of Louis Mignot/ Jeanne Charon.
Jean Mignot dit Chatillon was the son of Nicolas Mignot/ Madeleine de Brie. I have often wondered whether they were related, as Chatillon is not far from St Germain Laxis.
Of interest to me is that the two lines intersected in Quebec when Amable Mignot Labrie (descendant of Louis Mignot/ Jeanne Charon) married Marie Marguerite Collin (descendant of Jean Mignot/ Louise Cloutier) 1814, Kamouraska Quebec.
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https://www.geneanet.org/fonds/individus/?go=1&nom=mignot+dit+chatillon&page=2&prenom=&prenom_operateur=or&size=10&with_variantes_nom=&with_variantes_nom_conjoint=&with_variantes_prenom=&with_variantes_prenom_conjoint=
https://gw.geneanet.org/barbarabond?n=mignot+mignault+dit+chatillon&oc=&p=jean
https://gw.geneanet.org/michellemawjohnson?n=mignot+dit+chatillon&oc=&p=jean
https://gw.geneanet.org/leonieq?n=mignot+dit+chatillon&oc=&p=francois
https://gw.geneanet.org/cpey?n=mignot+dit+chatillon&oc=&p=francois
https://gw.geneanet.org/claudesamson?n=mignot+migneau+dit+chatillon&oc=&p=jean
etc...
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message from jimmain sent to me in error.
Once again, this information is much appreciated. I have learned some things, but am still puzzled by a couple of issues.
Jean (son of Nicolas/ Madeleine de Brie) Mignot's birthdate is recorded as either 1622 or 1628; I suspect the 1628 date is the correct one.
The other one that I noticed in reviewing documents is that Nicolas Mignot & Madeleine de Brie were from the parish of Bayeux. I thought they were from Chatillon-sous-Bagneux. Was this another error in transcribing the record?
Regards
Sarah
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You can contact the owners of the trees on Geneanet and get more answers, what are their sources,have they got a copy of the documents etc... or have they copied what the source said without any evidence.
Geneanet is free, only Premium is paying, you can choose English or another language . When contacted , the owners usually answer.
Claude Samson's tree gives Bagneux 20 april 1628 for the birth of Jean Mignot dit Chatillon, he gives his sources (Ancestry), you could try to contact him (or her).
Michelle Johson gives Chatillon, Allier Auvergne (wrong data)
Christiane Peyronard gives Chatillon sous Bagneux, 20 april 1622 ,source : fichier origine (great site! it gives the image of the baptism "act" I checked and found it here:
http://consultation.archives.hauts-de-seine.net/mdr/index.php/docnumViewer/calculHierarchieDocNum/651631/578359:651638:651631/1440/2560
page 28/321
It was added in 1623, having been forgotten by the curate.
etc..
You could check all the trees (but have you noticed that there are 417 trees with Jean Mignaut inside?)
So I think that Jean Mignaut son of Nicolas and Madeleine Debrie was born in 1622, Chatillon sous Bagneux (nowadays Chatillon in the Hauts de Seine departement, which is number 92. The other dates are not good . Typing mistake?)
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Beware !
Bayeux is not Bagneux
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I have found a lot of brothers and sisters for Jean Mignaut son of Nicolas and Madelaine Debrie 1st one october 1619, but I cannot find the marriage of the parents ),( may be married elsewhere),
Do you want them?
I also have found Nicolas 's occupation but not the marriage with Madeleine (I'll try again to morrow) .
Now , it's late here. I'll go to sleep.
Tell me if you want me to send images (it takes some time to manage this, so if you are not interested, please say so).
ADDED:I have found Nicolas's death and Madeleine remarriage , and death.
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death Nicolas Mignault 29 april 1635 in Chatillon sous Bagneux, around 63 years'old. occupation : cabaretier, something like publican.
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Marriage Madeleine De Brye ( widow of Nicolas Mignault,publican , from this parish and Jean PAGEANNE ( widower , gardener, born in the parish of Maignan near Bar sur Seine , diocese of Troyes en Champagne having been living in Sceaux for 4 years )9 february 1638 in Chatillon Sous Bagneux....
Jean de Brye brother of the bride, gardener,living in Monrouge ( Montrouge)
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death madeleine De Brie 17 september 1675 in Sceaux, 8 year's old ,widow of jean PAIAN,,
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death jean PAJON 30 may 1669, 80 year's old and more
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Birth Louis PAIAN 24 nov 1638 in Sceaux
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This is tremendous information! Thank you very much.
I would also be interested in Jean's siblings when you are able to do this.
I feel satisfied that the information that I had previously reviewed re St-Germain de la Sime, Bayeux, etc, has been corrected.
Thanks again. Jim Main
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Nicole 11 october 1619 looks like 29 but it is 19
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Simone 2 february 1621
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Jean 20 april 1622
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Claire 17 february 1624
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Nicolas 28 september 1625, 2 different registers , the second one gives the father's occupation : marchand cabaretier
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Claude 7 november 1627, 2 different registers , father's occupation : tavernier , baptized on a sunday
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Pierre , sunday 23 june 1630
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Nicolas (the second one) thursday 10 november 1633 , father's occupation: vigneron (winegrower)
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Found a birth in 1618 12 april: Marie, godfather Jehan (JEAN) Mignault who could be a grandfather or an uncle
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Election of a midwife in april 1633, she may have helped for the birth of Nicolas 1633
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All these births in Chatillon sous Bagneux
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map
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BAYEUX (which has nothing to do with BAGNEUX)
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Any tree or site giving BAYEUX as a place of origin for your ancestor are wrong, as well as any giving the death of Jean Mignault's father (Nicolas) elsewhere than in Chatillon (sous Bagneux , in those days), 1635.
http://consultation.archives.hauts-de-seine.net/mdr/index.php/docnumViewer/calculHierarchieDocNum/651631/578359:651638:651631/1440/2560
page 272/321
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Chatillon: births children Nicolas and Madeleine, death Nicolas 1635
Sceaux :death jean Pajan and Madeleine
Montrouge : Jean de Brye (Madeleine's brother ) once lived here
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https://gw.geneanet.org/thibs?n=de+brie&oc=1&p=madeleine
Here I found a possible date of marriage for Nicolas and Madeleine but i have no means of checking it
It is the only tree that seems reliable (in my opinion). 1617, could be a good date since the first child I found was born in 1618.
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Jean de Brye married C Cuvilly in Montrouge 11 ? 1635
Could be Cecile godmother of Louis Pajan in 1638
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alexandre baptized 4 january1637 to jean de brie and C Cuvilly
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noel 1639 baptized 26 december (must have been born on the 25th) to jehan de brie and ... cuvilly
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History :
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bataille_d%27%C3%89tampes_(1652)
a comment from the curate in the margin
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I appreciate the amount of work that has gone into providing me with this information.
would never have obtained all this new information which is really incredible for me.
Thank you very much.
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You are welcome.
Have you been able to contact the owner of this tree?
https://gw.geneanet.org/thibs?n=de+brie&oc=1&p=madeleine
It gives Madeleine's father (Celestin Debrie) and mother Anne Marie Françoise , says that the surname it not written (sans nom), I think that the surname could be FRANCOISE (FRANCOISE is a surname found in France , and moreover giving 3 christian names was not usual in those days ).
The owner gives his sources but I have not been able to see the documents (which is absolutely compulsory if you want to be certain).
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You really should explore this tree, very well documented and serious.
https://gw.geneanet.org/cath28351?lang=fr&pz=catherine&nz=biron&p=nicolas&n=mignault&oc=1.
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Once again, thank you for this information. I will follow up on your suggestion.