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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => London and Middlesex => England => London & Middlesex Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Lorri Stute on Tuesday 30 April 19 20:09 BST (UK)
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I have been researching my Great Uncle for quite awhile I keep hitting a brick wall with his birth and Death, in the 1881 England Census it shows him as abt 1864 for his birth in Hackney London he was 17 at the time the mothers name listed is Mary which is wrong his mothers name was Ann Goullee , I have found everything on all of his brothers , but David I only find when he was taken out of the home in 1872 and the 1881 census I found another census in 1891 just not sure if it is him, found numerous records of a David Martin in the Workhouse but its not my David. I live in the US so I cannot travel to England to search if there is anyone out there that could help me with David that would be great, there is 1 birth record thru BMD and it is not him I sent for it and they told it was not him.
Thanks in advance to anyone that can help me with this brickwall
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If the 1881 Census has him living with the wrong mother are you sure you have found the right David Martin?
Emeltom
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the 1881 census doesn't show Mary as his mother, it shows that Mary is the wife of Jesse, father of David, doesn't mean that she is his mother. Jesse remarried sept qtr 1876 Hackney with Mary Mitson on the same page. There are Matson stepchildren.
9 Helmsley Place RG11/311 folio 20 pg 31
Jesse Martin head mar 49 cabinet maker b. Shoreditch
Mary wife 39 b. Essex
Charles Matson stepson 18 French polisher b. Bethnal Green
David son 17 errand boy b. Hackney
Gabriel son waiter b. London
William Matson stepson 10 b. Essex
Thomas son 5 b. Hoxton
Richard son 3 b. Shoreditch
Alice dau 3 b. Hackney
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yes he is the right David, as you also see on there his brother Gabriel whom died shortly after that census which I have memorial card. Mary was his stepmother. yes I know Jesse his father remarried after Ann's death. I have all that info. David also has 3 older brothers Jesse,Fred,and Albert whom were kicked out of the home before Jesse married Mary.
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there are birth registrations for
Frederick William Thomas Martin june qtr 1862 Hackney vol 1b pg 385 mmn Goullee
Gabriel Martin sept qtr 1865 St Luke vol 1b pg 667 mmn Goullee
David doesn't appear to have been registered. It wasn't until 1875 that parents had to register a birth.
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Well that is not fair lol no wonder i cannot find him. i cannot find really anything for him not even a death record or marriage nothing , its frustrating when you have all of his siblings info but not him.
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Doesn't help but wonder if David was a middle name and he used his other name or vice versa :-\
Do you have him in 1871 under David?
What rules out the David Martin workhouse entries.
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1871 David is with brother Gabriel in Shoreditch Industrial School in Brentwood RG10/1657 folio 108 pg 15. Father Jesse is a widower and lodging in Bethnal Green RG10/494 folio 108 pg 27.
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I have thought about what if it is a middle name , but cannot find any other census records since Gabriel passed away in dec 1881. Jesse and Fred and Albert were sent to canada under the British home children and then Jesse and Albert came to the US and fred went to NZ after Canada those are the records I have from Barnados orpanage. but nothing on David that he ever went to the orphanges that i can find anyways. I dont really know for sure about the workhouses because that David was in westminister is that close to Hackney I dont know?
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I think we need to check out other David Martins to see if the workhouse one could be someone else.
The birth year was right to be yours I think but a couple of other David Martin births to rule out, although they had middle names.
I feel it might be him but it is difficult to be sure if he was on his own with no relations :(
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Gabriel Martin is not a common name so the one enumerated aged 6 in the Shoreditch school at Brentwood in 1871 is yours, place of birth noted as unknown, but immediately above him on the page is a David Martin aged 7 also place of birth unknown. Too much of a coincidence not be your David?
http://www.workhouses.org.uk/BrentwoodSD/
www.workhouses.org.uk/Shoreditch/
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Have you checked passenger lists to see if he went abroad? Either of his own accord or to see relatives (if he knew where they were that is) :-\
If you haven't already it might be worth checking census records in the US or Canada just to see if he pops up.
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Yes I have checked to see if went abroad found nothing. I did alot of checking with workhouse David and I felt the same way you do about what we have found not really sure about it. The brentwood school is my David and Gabriel. I have one record for the workhouse when David was 8 in 1872 Fred and Albert are also listed on it they were taken from their home,
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It's a shame he seems to have got left and separated from his brothers :(
Even if we found a possible death and got the certificate if he was out on his own how would we know if he was yours or not :-\
I still think it would be worth ruling any other David Martins out, there were a couple if I recall born around the same time but they had a middle name or David as a middle name.
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This could be the 1891 possible you mentioned.
David Martin 25 a boarder lodging in Hackney birthplace Hackney
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I feel like he was left out also not recording his birth, his brothers all left for other countries( not by choice), Gabriel dying, I did find some electoral votes for David Martin in Hackney in the process of checking them out. the landlord for one of the places rings a bell but i have to pull my books to verify the name. I feel like its dejavu for his brother Jesse he lived with some people named Snellgrove in Canada. thats the landlords name on the electoral votes. if its the last thing i ever do I am going to find him. :)
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yes it is the one I found hoping I might be on the right track I found the electoral votes on Family Search
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Just looking at the family he was boarding with to see if he stayed with them. They had young children so no eligible ladies he could have married.
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I sent for the birth record that is listed on BMD but it was not him that was so dissapointing
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I can't see one listed?
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its listed under England wales Civil not Bmd sorry David Martin 1864 Islington I thought it could be him but it wasnt
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Sometimes I wonder if I could find his fathers cemetery I might find David there, But of course its not listed on the fathers death certif, just says Hackney London Nov 1892, anyway of finding out where his father is buried? what info would you need to check it out?
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Deleted didn't check out.
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I don't know where his father might be buried but am just looking at a family tree with Jesse and Ann but it only has a daughter Mary Ann who went to Australia. No mention of David or other siblings but there is a very small photo with 2 young children.
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The tree has burial for Ann (mother) 28 Nov 1867 Tower Hamlets
Cemetery Meath Gardens
Maybe that can be searched online.
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I have a tree on Ancestry , I found the mother from her death certif of course where she is buried her grave is gone they built a park on top of the graveyard. it used to be Victoria Gardens before Meath
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Tree name is Martin/Bradbury
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Just going out now but what was on the death for Jesse - did it have an address/who was the informant?
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this is what the death copy says Jesse Martin 4 November 1892 Infirmary Hackney Union Male 63 yrs of 2 Lyme Grove Hackney died of TB certified by JJ Gordon this was registered 11 Nov 1892 register was Y Goates or Coates