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General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: nw_whiskers on Sunday 05 May 19 13:51 BST (UK)
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The Fraser Family are trying to identify the Regiment in the attached photograph from the WW1 era. Is it more likely to be the Royal Tank Corps 13th Battalion or London Regiment (London Scottish) 1st/14th Bn.,
Any help would be most greatly appreciated by the Fraser family. nw_whiskers
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If the Military Badges are from the 13th Battalion Royal Tank Corps it is likely to be of Adam Robertson Fraser awarded the Military Cross dated 10 Aug 1918. He also served in Machine Corps before that and some secret tank corps. The other alternative we have is John Shaw Fraser of London Regiment (London Scottish) killed 7th Oct 1916 at the Somme.
We hope that this information is of some help. nw_whiskers
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The badge is that of the London Scottish not the Tank Corps. Try an image search.
MaxD
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Deleted. Max had already provided the answer.
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Thank you for your reply with the London Scottish but I am not sure what you mean by "try an image search" as I am not up on military uniforms or badges from WW1 or otherwise.
Many thanks for your response, nw_whiskers
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Go to Google images and to the right of the search bar you will see a camera icon, click on it and this gives you the choice to upload your photo to google to find a match, then you will get images returned with the closest match to your photo.
Hope this makes sense.
Carol
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Try this.
MaxD
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Dear All, Thank you all for your "generous efforts" to expand my knowledge so I now have three London Scottish Badges to choose from which is great for me. The fancy chair that he is sitting on looks like a photographic "studio prop" and the cane that he is holding is probably in the same category. The terrible horrors of war are such that he and countless millions of others sadly fail to live a long and useful life.
Many thanks to you all, nw_whiskers.
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Thought he deserved a bit of a tidy up.
2nd. photo is how he would have looked.
Just to add a snippet the confusion may have arisen owing to the "T" above the shoulder title which someone may have guessed as Tank. It actually stands for Territorial.
Apologies if you already know this.
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Dear Jim1, I was thinking/puzzling about what the "T" on his shoulder title was about so you have kindly given the Fraser family (Grandniece and Niece!) another piece of valued information about this particular picture. The picture could well be of John/Jack Fraser who was one of 15 siblings but my Fraser father-in-law would not speak about it. It was a "raw subject" with him probably due to their sad loss so we dared NOT to ask about the matter.
Thank you kindly, nw_whiskers.
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Is the one who was lost John Shaw Fraser, missing in action 7 October 1916?
MaxD
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Dear MaxD, Yes, John Shaw Fraser Corporal 2266, 1st/14th Bn., London Regt (London Scottish) 7th Oct 1916 age 22 from his Record of Commemoration as we have that piece of paper.
Pardon my lack of knowledge so may I ask about the "cane" that is shown in both of the pictures posted as I am not up on at what stage they are allowed to carry or display it.
The reason we asked about the picture in the first place was to try and establish which of the two Fraser brother (that were in the Army WW1) it was "likely to be" as it can down through the family via his 2nd youngest sister.
We have learned a lot in the process and are greatful to those have guided us with their posts, nw_whiskers
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The cane I believe is a "Sagger Stick" lots of info on the use of these on google. Such a lovely looking young man and what a waste :-\
Carol
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The cane I believe is a "Sagger Stick" lots of info on the use of these on google. Such a lovely looking young man and what a waste :-\
Carol
Should read "Swagger Stick"
Tony
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Indeed. The Wikipedia article is pretty good https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swagger_stick
MaxD
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Dear All, A "Swagger Stick" strikes me as such a lovely expression and appropriate expression for part of their Uniform of the time. Yes, you are right in "such a waste" of our youthful resources but that is the long history of mankind. We better NOT digress into that arena!
Again may I thank everybody for giving us a "much greater insight" into the London Scottish picture, nw_whiskers.
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You may have it already but the battalion's war diary for the period has a detailed account with sketches covering the attack on 7 October 1916.
MaxD
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Dear MaxD, No, we do not have that segment of the story but the Fraser Family could well cherish a link to that battalion war diary on 7 Oct 1916.
Many thanks, nw_whiskers
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This https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7354941 is the diary from Feb 1916 to May 1919.
There is an earlier one from the start of the war https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7351902. His medal record https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D2238138 shows he arrived in France on 23 November 1914. The war diary records the arrival, on 28 November, of a draft of 5 officers and 187 other ranks from England. He would have been one of those men.
Each of these can be downloaded for £3.50. If the family have access to Ancestry I can give links.
See map and image at:
https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side-by-side/#zoom=14&lat=50.0444&lon=2.8846&layers=101465185&right=BingHyb
The attack on 7 October 1916 took place from trenches to the east of the road between Morval and Les Boeufs moving north east towards Le Transloy. The battalion lost 23 killed 64 wounded and 12 missing.
MaxD
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The cane I believe is a "Sagger Stick" lots of info on the use of these on google. Such a lovely looking young man and what a waste :-\
Carol
Oops! Sorry....slip of the finger ::) ;D ;D
Carol
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Dear Treetotal, Swagger Stick is the "period decoration on the cake" as it is far more descript/apt than cane or anything else that I could ever dream up. I can not help but have a warm smile to myself about it!
Many thanks from the Fraser Family to everybody for having done a "wonderful job", nw_whiskers